Opinion Jack Steven

[stavro#4]

Ideal outcome, Golden Jazzhands. Could be the ideal solution for all. I guess it all depends on what we get through FA and trade this year. I'd want decent compensation for losing him.

I'm thoroughly sick of seeing St.Kilda champions finish their careers elsewhere. Stuv has plenty left to offer, especially if he overcomes his current issues.

There are a lot of valid opinions on this and everyone is right to a degree.

For me, I need to weigh up what the offer is. Kelly won’t be cheap for freo and thus Steven won’t be cheap for Geelong. He isn’t cooked. He still a genuine match winning midfielder and our best player when he is fit and playing. But we have learnt to live life without him this year.

So for me it comes down to what the offer is and what we do with that package.

If you could land a Brad Hill via trading assets and you got a top 10 pick(freos pick) then I probably let him go. That pick for me instantly goes on the block and I chase someone like King or Cerra with it.

That’s fantastic list building. Yes it hurts in the short term, but I think there has been a lot of growth this year and we are building for the next 3-5 years of sustained success and I don’t see Jack here for that in all honesty.

So I believe the club is wanting to see what comes of this and I agree with that. I’ve stopped being emotional and sentimental about players when Roo left and that group failed to win a flag. For me it’s about the club and I don’t think it’s a hammer blow to the heart of the club as what it would of been 12/18 months ago

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

I took great interest last night in her comments re our coaching prospects.

My word....things have changed dramatically from her trumpeting last Mon night that "the St.Kilda board is split on chasing RTB for the job" to "Brett Ratten is looking pretty good atm"

A week's a long time in the media !

ive got another theory with that ...
lets say you are a coach thats under a huge amount of pressure from some influencial supporters of the club you lead.. lets say that coach although contracted is feeling that heat , perhaps a well timed call from the said coaches manager to leak info about their client being spoken about for other positions releaves a bit of that pressure ... suddenly the issue is the team not the coach because if it was the coach why would another club be sniffing around....

im getting a feeling that things are really quiet bitter at freo... unlike normal coach sackings/pressure where the coach is painted as the problem i think Ross is looking at Freo and thinking that this club is hurting his brand and their failings are tainting his chances of another senior position.. i dont think Ross wants to be at Freo.. i dont think Freo want Ross there but Ross wont go unless he has something to go to and Freo dont want to blow his payout..

 

[VDS66]

There are a lot of valid opinions on this and everyone is right to a degree.

For me, I need to weigh up what the offer is. Kelly won’t be cheap for freo and thus Steven won’t be cheap for Geelong. He isn’t cooked. He still a genuine match winning midfielder and our best player when he is fit and playing. But we have learnt to live life without him this year.

So for me it comes down to what the offer is and what we do with that package.

If you could land a Brad Hill via trading assets and you got a top 10 pick(freos pick) then I probably let him go. That pick for me instantly goes on the block and I chase someone like King or Cerra with it.

That’s fantastic list building. Yes it hurts in the short term, but I think there has been a lot of growth this year and we are building for the next 3-5 years of sustained success and I don’t see Jack here for that in all honesty.

So I believe the club is wanting to see what comes of this and I agree with that. I’ve stopped being emotional and sentimental about players when Roo left and that group failed to win a flag. For me it’s about the club and I don’t think it’s a hammer blow to the heart of the club as what it would of been 12/18 months ago

Agree with this view.

I'm.much the same in terms of emotional attachment.

Club needs to make the best of the situation with the future in mind.

 

[wayneolsen]

There are a lot of valid opinions on this and everyone is right to a degree.

For me, I need to weigh up what the offer is. Kelly won’t be cheap for freo and thus Steven won’t be cheap for Geelong. He isn’t cooked. He still a genuine match winning midfielder and our best player when he is fit and playing. But we have learnt to live life without him this year.

So for me it comes down to what the offer is and what we do with that package.

If you could land a Brad Hill via trading assets and you got a top 10 pick(freos pick) then I probably let him go. That pick for me instantly goes on the block and I chase someone like King or Cerra with it.

That’s fantastic list building. Yes it hurts in the short term, but I think there has been a lot of growth this year and we are building for the next 3-5 years of sustained success and I don’t see Jack here for that in all honesty.

So I believe the club is wanting to see what comes of this and I agree with that. I’ve stopped being emotional and sentimental about players when Roo left and that group failed to win a flag. For me it’s about the club and I don’t think it’s a hammer blow to the heart of the club as what it would of been 12/18 months ago

Don't agree. Selling off past champions has delivered us nothing great and the same goes with Steven. I just want him to stay and keep building around him and others. Getting rid of other greats like Goddard and Dal is soul destroying and hasn't worked- the last five yr plan is proof to that. Why would you want to get rid of your best players. Doesn't make sense. His family situation and own health will obviously work itself out but I want him at Saints

 

[stavro#4]

Don't agree. Selling off past champions has delivered us nothing great and the same goes with Steven. I just want him to stay and keep building around him and others. Getting rid of other greats like Goddard and Dal is soul destroying and hasn't worked- the last five yr plan is proof to that. Why would you want to get rid of your best players. Doesn't make sense. His family situation and own health will obviously work itself out but I want him at Saints

In short, Jack Steven isn’t as good as those champions in my opinion. In fact if he in his prime played in that team - I doubt he wins a BnF. But we are probably a premiership team.

Plus I think there is real value in what is out in the market. Hypothetically if i said we lost Jack Steven and whatever currency we got for him and maybe a second rounder from us but you landed Brad Hill and Ben King with the returns and then signed Tomlinson and Goldstein/Ryder as free agents. Would we not be a much better side?

That’s why I want to see what’s on the table.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Don't agree. Selling off past champions has delivered us nothing great and the same goes with Steven. I just want him to stay and keep building around him and others. Getting rid of other greats like Goddard and Dal is soul destroying and hasn't worked- the last five yr plan is proof to that. Why would you want to get rid of your best players. Doesn't make sense. His family situation and own health will obviously work itself out but I want him at Saints

The strategy of letting Goddard go was sound... we desperately needed to get our TPP down & losing BJ's contract had an immediate effect. Sadly for us we expected Grundy to go very early to GWS and didn't rate what was on offer at pick 10 (& 11) highly. They thought the draft was very even from 10 through to the mid 20's so getting a 10 pick downgrade was thought to be worth it (which was proven to be correct).

If it had been one year later we would have ended up with pick 4 in a much, much stronger draft.

It's an interesting debate though. Letting club champions go has worked very well for other clubs.

It'll all come down to what Stuv wants anyway... The club isnt actively shopping him to Geelong.

 

[wayneolsen]

In short, Jack Steven isn’t as good as those champions in my opinion. In fact if he in his prime played in that team - I doubt he wins a BnF. But we are probably a premiership team.

Plus I think there is real value in what is out in the market. Hypothetically if i said we lost Jack Steven and whatever currency we got for him and maybe a second rounder from us but you landed Brad Hill and Ben King with the returns and then signed Tomlinson and Goldstein/Ryder as free agents. Would we not be a much better side?

That’s why I want to see what’s on the table.

Steven from memory won a B&F in 2013 with our those champs playing except Dal and Goddard - pretty good to be not as good as them! Since then has carried our shit team during the five yr plan by himself. Not bad!
We are a much better side with him in our side so keep building. Stop looking over the fence for hypothetical better deals. Don't sell your champs

 

[wayneolsen]

The strategy of letting Goddard go was sound... we desperately needed to get our TPP down & losing BJ's contract had an immediate effect. Sadly for us we expected Grundy to go very early to GWS and didn't rate what was on offer at pick 10 (& 11) highly. They thought the draft was very even from 10 through to the mid 20's so getting a 10 pick downgrade was thought to be worth it (which was proven to be correct).

If it had been one year later we would have ended up with pick 4 in a much, much stronger draft.

It's an interesting debate though. Letting club champions go has worked very well for other clubs.

It'll all come down to what Stuv wants anyway... The club isnt actively shopping him to Geelong.

Don't agree. Goddard wanted to stay and take less. Didn't work and he went on to play 150 games for the bloody cheats - life member. Crap deal for us.
It is in Stevens hands I agree but they want him from all media reports so by default he is in the market
I want him to stay. I don't like our very best at other clubs

 

[stavro#4]

Steven from memory won a B&F in 2013 with our those champs playing except Dal and Goddard - pretty good to be not as good as them! Since then has carried our s**t team during the five yr plan by himself. Not bad!
We are a much better side with him in our side so keep building. Stop looking over the fence for hypothetical better deals. Don't sell your champs

I said in their prime. Not with a half cooked Roo an dual knee reco and aged Lenny. Pretty comfortable he doesn’t win a BNF at his best during the 04-10 sides. Hence why Jack has never been a superstar of the comp but the bracket under.

There is no guarantee that jack comes back as the player that he was either. You don’t know the extent all this effects him. So again you consider all options. Also Jack has spent a fair bit away from the club this season.

I am comfortable with my hypothetical to be ok with letting him go and I won’t pass judgement until I see what’s on the table from the club. Clearly there is something happening as there has been thick black smoke for 12/18 months about Jack and Geelong.

 

[#gosaintas]

Steven from memory won a B&F in 2013 with our those champs playing except Dal and Goddard - pretty good to be not as good as them! Since then has carried our s**t team during the five yr plan by himself. Not bad!
We are a much better side with him in our side so keep building. Stop looking over the fence for hypothetical better deals. Don't sell your champs

Did he ever even make the AA team?

 

[gringo2011]

Agree with this view.

I'm.much the same in terms of emotional attachment.

Club needs to make the best of the situation with the future in mind.

I think Stuv is gone anyway so makes sense to maximise the trade in our favour. If we can turn him into Hill it's getting max value form a bad situation. I'm not keen on a mass trade out of players that are best 22 for long term gain. We need to be competitive now. So many Saints fans I know have dropped off, you only have to go to our games to see, even the interstate cheer squads are bigger than ours, no-one turns up. Another 2 years in the bottom 4 would be financially disastrous for us and scare FA players off.

 

[VDS66]

I think Stuv is gone anyway so makes sense to maximise the trade in our favour. If we can turn him into Hill it's getting max value form a bad situation. I'm not keen on a mass trade out of players that are best 22 for long term gain. We need to be competitive now. So many Saints fans I know have dropped off, you only have to go to our games to see, even the interstate cheer squads are bigger than ours, no-one turns up. Another 2 years in the bottom 4 would be financially disastrous for us and scare FA players off.

Unfortunately we may not have a say in it if he wants out.

Which is fine by me.

You try and do what's best for him, and I suspect he will make sure he does the best for us.

Could turn out to be another Dangerfield type exchange IMO.

 

[Human Person]

I've obviously missed it but when did Jack Steven actually come out and say:

1-I want to leave St.Kilda

2-I want to go to Geelong.

There's been a lot of noise in the media which no doubt has been fueled by his health issues but where did this all start?

It's like Chinese whispers.

Purple started it last year and wouldn't shut up about it.

 

[Max the great]

Give him a supply of furphs and kfc to stay.

Why would we give him the worst beer in the world to entice him to stay?

 

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

In short, Jack Steven isn’t as good as those champions in my opinion. In fact if he in his prime played in that team - I doubt he wins a BnF. But we are probably a premiership team.

Plus I think there is real value in what is out in the market. Hypothetically if i said we lost Jack Steven and whatever currency we got for him and maybe a second rounder from us but you landed Brad Hill and Ben King with the returns and then signed Tomlinson and Goldstein/Ryder as free agents. Would we not be a much better side?

That’s why I want to see what’s on the table.

what about the fact that jack did it in a crap side with very little help.. dal and goddard played in an era where we basically had our way. It's hard being the best player in a bottom team (unless your nickname is banger)

 

[wayneolsen]

Ag

I said in their prime. Not with a half cooked Roo an dual knee reco and aged Lenny. Pretty comfortable he doesn’t win a BNF at his best during the 04-10 sides. Hence why Jack has never been a superstar of the comp but the bracket under.

There is no guarantee that jack comes back as the player that he was either. You don’t know the extent all this effects him. So again you consider all options. Also Jack has spent a fair bit away from the club this season.

I am comfortable with my hypothetical to be ok with letting him go and I won’t pass judgement until I see what’s on the table from the club. Clearly there is something happening as there has been thick black smoke for 12/18 months about Jack and Geelong.

fair call- agree to dis

Did he ever even make the AA team?

i was wondering when you would crawl out from under your rock

 

[#gosaintas]

Ag

fair call- agree to dis

i was wondering when you would crawl out from under your rock

So is that a no?

 

[Joffaboy]

Purple started it last year and wouldn't shut up about it.

Oh well as good as done then.

Until chubby cheeks requests a trade to Geelong, the whole topic is moot.

 

[triggering bro]

Purple started it last year and wouldn't shut up about it.

Jacks manager said it on trade radio I remember hearing it live

 

[cooperrules]

Why would we give him the worst beer in the world to entice him to stay?

True coopers pale ale it is.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Give him a supply of furphs and kfc to stay.

I thought they must have already done that.

 

[wayneolsen]

So is that a no?

He came top 10 in Brownlow last year

 

[Sab22]

Geelong to give us what they get for Kelly. If it's two firsts, we send a future 2nd and Steven for that.

No time to bargain, play hard otherwise he can't leave till his contract is fulfilled.

 

[Mikka84]

The very interesting thing will be if Kelly stays..

There is no way known Geelong can afford Steven in the salary cap.

That's how we'll get their first. By paying part of his salary.

If Kelly does leave - see Birdman's previous posts as to how it works.

We can live in fantasy land that we'll be getting anything more.

But - an off season netting Hill, King & Hill does it for me. Added 'new recruits' in King and Bytel.

We have played the whole year basically without Stuv, so next year won't seem that different when he leaves.

 

[Sheepey]

Honestly if Steven wants to go we don't have a lot of negotiating power, other than that he is contracted (if he left next year we would have even less because he'd be a free agent).

It's the sticky situation where business intersects with humanitarian concerns. Steven has clearly been unhappy this season, leading to his long break from football which has affected his on field performance (if he maintained his fitness when he was on his break he wouldn't need to have had that 5 week conditioning block prior to playing VFL). If indeed he requests a trade to Geelong (due to family or mental health reasons), club officials will rightly feel the compassionate impetus to facilitate the exchange.

From a business perspective however, that puts the Saints in a difficult position, because it means that the Saints won't have the bargaining power to say "we're happy to keep him" unless Steven expresses that he is content with remaining at the saints for another year. Consequently, Geelong will be able to absolutely low-ball an offer for him knowing that the Saints have little wiggle room to negotiate. In addition, if, as is becoming the norm, mental health problems are considered to be an injury or illness akin to a physical injury, then we would be trading an injured player that may not return to his maximum output. That's why I think, unfortunately, we aren't going to get market value for him if he decides to leave and the idea that we will get the picks obtained from the Kelly trade as definitely overly-optimistic.