Opinion Jack Steven

[jwikked]

I reckon the AFL would make him stand out of footy for a year then!
Plus with Boyd remember there was a massive deal put to him by the Dogs in response to the
Then recruiting coup from GWS by enticing the Dogs captain at the time Griffin to go!

Even if we got the very best compo imaginable for Steven, we still don't have enough sugar to tempt GC!

Two first rounds is almost too good to pass up, you would think. Assuming we got a first round (late) for Steven (if it happens)

 

[Mikka84]

Well he better hurry with that excuse. I think we are clutching at cows. Id say he is 107% chance of sating and at the most 4% chance of going.

I’ve never read a better post. Ever.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Honestly if Steven wants to go we don't have a lot of negotiating power, other than that he is contracted (if he left next year we would have even less because he'd be a free agent).

It's the sticky situation where business intersects with humanitarian concerns. Steven has clearly been unhappy this season, leading to his long break from football which has affected his on field performance (if he maintained his fitness when he was on his break he wouldn't need to have had that 5 week conditioning block prior to playing VFL). If indeed he requests a trade to Geelong (due to family or mental health reasons), club officials will rightly feel the compassionate impetus to facilitate the exchange.

From a business perspective however, that puts the Saints in a difficult position, because it means that the Saints won't have the bargaining power to say "we're happy to keep him" unless Steven expresses that he is content with remaining at the saints for another year. Consequently, Geelong will be able to absolutely low-ball an offer for him knowing that the Saints have little wiggle room to negotiate. In addition, if, as is becoming the norm, mental health problems are considered to be an injury or illness akin to a physical injury, then we would be trading an injured player that may not return to his maximum output. That's why I think, unfortunately, we aren't going to get market value for him if he decides to leave and the idea that we will get the picks obtained from the Kelly trade as definitely overly-optimistic.

He's should be fairly cashed up.
I'd like to find the mental health professional to say "he has to play and he has to play for this team ".
It would be very bad taste for the Cats to take advantage of the situation, and i'm not sure they would.

We saw with Dayne Beams , twice, how clubs can work together for such a situation.

 

[triggering bro]

I reckon the AFL would make him stand out of footy for a year then!
Plus with Boyd remember there was a massive deal put to him by the Dogs in response to the
Then recruiting coup from GWS by enticing the Dogs captain at the time Griffin to go!

Even if we got the very best compo imaginable for Steven, we still don't have enough sugar to tempt GC!

At the time Tom Boyd was seen as a generational player. He is still considered the best footballer to come up through the junior system. He also went pick 1.

An ageing Ryan Griffin & pick 6 for what was considered at the time the next Jonathan Brown was a fair trade. Poor Griffin cost himself a premiership medal though!

I think Ben King being traded this year is unlikely due to the reasons you’ve stated (& plugger) however without having all the information available we can’t be certain.

 

[gringo2011]

Oh keep up gringo. A third party leaning on two contracted parties with threats of repercussion is coersion.

As a governing body that administers the laws, wouldn't it have more sway than even regular employers get under contract law? It's entitled to try to have it's contracts held too as they are the authority as far as I can work out.

 

[gringo2011]

My anaconda don’t want none unless you got Bing hun.

I'm not sure if that pop culture reference is funny or just disturbing.

 

[gringo2011]

I know he wasn’t let go in his first year however Josh Schache is another example of a young player let go while under contract.

Brisbane seem to be leading the way with their recruitment & list management. They target particular types of players (VC) from the draft & players that played a lot of junior footy together (Neal & McCarthy). On the other hand they seem receptive to moving those on that don’t want to be there (Schache & Beames).

Gold Coast are a rabble, have no clear recruitment strategy & as a result are a revolving door for young talent.

This is the thing though, Mc Carthy, Boyd and Schache all had genuine issues and needed to get out. I hope unless he does have serious mental issues we don't push that line. It cheapens the real issues for players and is taking the piss to advance or own cause.

 

[Mikka84]

This is the thing though, Mc Carthy, Boyd and Schache all had genuine issues and needed to get out. I hope unless he does have serious mental issues we don't push that line. It cheapens the real issues for players and is taking the piss to advance or own cause.

Absolutely - 100%.

But a person doesn’t have to have mental health issues to be severely effected by homesickness or the like.

Anyway - wasn’t suggesting that for a second. But if he chooses to state he wants out for whatever reason, I don’t think the afl can mount much of a case if it becomes public. Likelihood he does stay for another year. But that seed of uncertainty is firmly planted.

 

[Yawkey way]

Because you live in hope and they don’t gain anything losing him this year so why wouldn’t you keep him. Things do change. And it shows other who are recruited by the golf coast you have to at least finish your contract. That is probably the most important thing of all

See this is the furphy, draft kids who want to be there or recruit established players.

They ruined their cap and actually sort to trade the stephen mays etc for cap relief then turned around and said we can’t retain anyone, rubbish. There must be loads of players who want to play there maybe just not the ones they really want. How have we gone offering overs to gun A graders ?.

 

[Joffaboy]

As a governing body that administers the laws, wouldn't it have more sway than even regular employers get under contract law? It's entitled to try to have it's contracts held too as they are the authority as far as I can work out.

Its not their contracts, its between the GCS and the player.
3rd party coersion is a criminal offense.

This is all theory BTW the AFL have always bent those rules especially under Dimetriou.

I would be very surprised if he came to the Saints but to say 3rd party coersion is not a crime is wrong

 

[plugger66]

See this is the furphy, draft kids who want to be there or recruit established players.

They ruined their cap and actually sort to trade the stephen mays etc for cap relief then turned around and said we can’t retain anyone, rubbish. There must be loads of players who want to play there maybe just not the ones they really want. How have we gone offering overs to gum A graders ?.

I’m sure there are heaps who want to play there. The problem is they are probably guys not getting a game elsewhere. That doesn’t help the club.

 

[Yawkey way]

I’m sure there are heaps who want to play there. The problem is they are probably guys not getting a game elsewhere. That doesn’t help the club.

I don’t believe that, they want top shelf which we do too well sometimes that just doesn’t happen until you have built a side.

 

[plugger66]

I don’t believe that, they want top shelf which we do too well sometimes that just doesn’t happen until you have built a side.

Yep and to build a side you don’t give away young like under contract. You convince to stay or at least finish the contract

 

[Diehard Saint]

All the legal jargon in the world aint changing a thing!

What folks are missing is that the AFL are a law onto themselves, as is their whole contract agreement
It's not changing suddenly this off season just cause we want Ben!

Yes, like no contracts have ever been broken in the AFL...said no one ever.
We all know they are not worth the paper they are written on. Plays the homesick card and how it’s affecting him emotionally to be separated from his identical twin and voila. Suns would’ve known they were taking a huge risk picking him.

Mitch Clarke, Cam McCarthy, both contracted I believe? And probably others I can’t think of.

I believe he’ll stay for the second year but I very much doubt he’s signing on for more. Can’t see him changing his mind. Aside from anything else the Suns are stuffed and it’s not changing anytime in the near future.

 

[Jade Buddha]

I don’t know how many times I can say this but king won’t be allowed to leave the Gold Coast at the end of the year. That is the last thing that will happen. This sounds like kelly last year and whoever the year before. We ended up with jack.

Mayo?

 

[sunny3193]

I’m using logic to say what I’m saying not emotion. Let’s see what happens. I’m happy to have a slab with anyone on it.

Plugger releases his inner Vulcan.
Live long and prosper.
(And this is my 3,000th post. )

 

[sunny3193]

How is it manipulation of a contract? Doesn't he have a GC contract for next year? That would mean they can hold him to it. I reckon even if the AFL don't step in they will play hard ball. Lukosius and Rankine are likely to want out as well. They need to stick a wall up and hope the kids get used to being there.

Ranking has already re-signed.
Lukosius is in the same camp as King.
Adelaide will offer their Carlton frdp this year as bait though.

 

[sunny3193]

Meanwhile at the Cattery, it appears that Kelly is staying.

So where does that put Purple and his rumour?

 

[gringo2011]

Its not their contracts, its between the GCS and the player.
3rd party coersion is a criminal offense.

This is all theory BTW the AFL have always bent those rules especially under Dimetriou.

I would be very surprised if he came to the Saints but to say 3rd party coersion is not a crime is wrong

Or is it the law makers making sure the laws aren't broken? That's like saying the ACCC is coercing companies to not break rules regarding compliance.

 

[Joffaboy]

Or is it the law makers making sure the laws aren't broken? That's like saying the ACCC is coercing companies to not break rules regarding compliance.

That makes no sense

 

[gringo2011]

That makes no sense

Bing has a 2020 contract, if the AFL step in and say you have to stick to the AFL contract you signed, it isn't coercion, it's the administering body making the parties stick to the contract that was signed.

How is that hard to understand?

 

[OxSaint]

Gold Coast are just starting to turn the tide of people wanting to leave. The last thing they will want is someone to be staying on who wants out and potentially rubbing off on the group. Particularly when they can get new talent in the door a year earlier that could want to be there. If Ben wants out this year St Kilda would look to get the deal done as a year is a long time, when talents want to come you do the best to get a deal done.

 

[AFLOnline]

I'd be wanting a first round pick at the absolute minimum

Stuv is a game winner and a required player. 4 time best and fairest players don't come around too often.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Yes, like no contracts have ever been broken in the AFL...said no one ever.
We all know they are not worth the paper they are written on. Plays the homesick card and how it’s affecting him emotionally to be separated from his identical twin and voila. Suns would’ve known they were taking a huge risk picking him.

Mitch Clarke, Cam McCarthy, both contracted I believe? And probably others I can’t think of.

I believe he’ll stay for the second year but I very much doubt he’s signing on for more. Can’t see him changing his mind. Aside from anything else the Suns are stuffed and it’s not changing anytime in the near future.

I don't think you are correct.
Contracts can be broken if both parties agree to break it.

1: No employer can force someone to work for them.
2: Its common to have contracts preventing someone working for their opposition for a period of time.

Unlike Soccer, there aren't a host of different organisations you can go and work for.
So every player is free to walk from their club, but they can totally be prevented from playing for another team unless the original team allows it.

If a contracted player decides to quit mid season and become a stock broker, there is no issue.
But if they want to go to another team its usually within the original team's interest to facilitate the move , to try to recover something from it.

The talent drain from the Suns is under scrutiny at the moment, and the AFL, Media and Greg Williams daughter would be all dead set against us if we tried such a thing.

 

[Yawkey way]

I don't think you are correct.
Contracts can be broken if both parties agree to break it.

1: No employer can force someone to work for them.
2: Its common to have contracts preventing someone working for their opposition for a period of time.

Unlike Soccer, there aren't a host of different organisations you can go and work for.
So every player is free to walk from their club, but they can totally be prevented from playing for another team unless the original team allows it.

If a contracted player decides to quit mid season and become a stock broker, there is no issue.
But if they want to go to another team its usually within the original team's interest to facilitate the move , to try to recover something from it.

The talent drain from the Suns is under scrutiny at the moment, and the AFL, Media and Greg Williams daughter would be all dead set against us if we tried such a thing.

He’s contracted to the GC for another year as per the conditions attached to his draft nomination.

There is no talent drain from the GC it’s just a beat up by them to justify poor management decisions, Lynch was a restricted free agent, May salary cap decision etc. The AFL want them to be competitive but not at any price, Ben king will be out when his contracts up if not before and there’s nothing they can do about it that won’t rebound badly on an already tarnished destination imo.