Unsolved Jack The Ripper

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#26
If you can place the guy in Whitechapel it will give credence but I cant find a single piece of evidence that the man even crossed the Atlantic at this time. As the bloke was setting up a family, house and practice in the US at a similar time this one seems most unlikely.
I fully agree, I did read somewhere that Holmes traveled to England during 1888 to sell medical skeletons ( I personally think its just a piece of fiction). The from hell letter, is more more likely then not a prank letter so any evidence based around it shouldn't be the main bases of a theory. The theory of Joesph Barnett to me is a more likely suspect, many of the suspects are just people which match up with certain dates but very few actually give a reason as to why they would kill, even though the motive for Joesph might be simplistic and something which can be easily linked up after the fact for a "good what if", he does suit many key factors.
 

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Thread starter Admin #27
I fully agree, I did read somewhere that Holmes traveled to England during 1888 to sell medical skeletons ( I personally think its just a piece of fiction). The from hell letter, is more more likely then not a prank letter so any evidence based around it shouldn't be the main bases of a theory. The theory of Joesph Barnett to me is a more likely suspect, many of the suspects are just people which match up with certain dates but very few actually give a reason as to why they would kill, even though the motive for Joesph might be simplistic and something which can be easily linked up after the fact for a "good what if", he does suit many key factors.
Why did he stop killing? I mean, jack seemed to be de-evolving, getting more violent as he went, then why/how did he just stop?
 

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#28
Why did he stop killing? I mean, jack seemed to be de-evolving, getting more violent as he went, then why/how did he just stop?
Because he was taken out of the equation. it's not popular with some modern authors who like to run with new theories but Robert Anderson was pretty convinced http://www.casebook.org/police_officials/po-ander.html.

Anderson was pretty convinced he was caged... and the killings stop. It makes sense.
 
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Because he was taken out of the equation. it's not popular with some modern authors who like to run with new theories but Robert Anderson was pretty convinced http://www.casebook.org/police_officials/po-ander.html.

Anderson was pretty convinced he was caged... and the killings stop. It makes sense.
But he's referring to Kominsky isn't he? Barnett lived another 30 years or so.

I dunno, Anderson's comments are very self-serving. If they knew, they would have publicised that fact. Or, if it was held back, it would have come out later.
 

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#30
But he's referring to Kominsky isn't he? Barnett lived another 30 years or so.

I dunno, Anderson's comments are very self-serving. If they knew, they would have publicised that fact. Or, if it was held back, it would have come out later.
Sorry, didn't realise you were referring to Barnett specifically, though you were referencing Holmes. . And no Anderson was referring to Kaminsky (David Cohen), the difference needs to be noted as another other suspect is Kosminski.

The first I can source him saying it directly was 1907 but my earlier work recalls discussion that a number of SY belived they had him caged but held it back in case they were wrong, they would look foolish - Also Aberline did not agree, but he was a conspiracy theorist. (though i haven't looked at the ripper stories properly in 15 years until know)

Self serving or not, Kaminsky's trip to the asylum was one way and short lived.... and the killings stopped.
 
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Sorry, didn't realise you were referring to Barnett specifically, though you were referencing Holmes. . And no Anderson was referring to Kaminsky (David Cohen), the difference needs to be noted as another other suspect is Kosminski.

The first I can source him saying it directly was 1907 but my earlier work recalls discussion that a number of SY belived they had him caged but held it back in case they were wrong, they would look foolish - Also Aberline did not agree, but he was a conspiracy theorist. (though i haven't looked at the ripper stories properly in 15 years until know)

Self serving or not, Kaminsky's trip to the asylum was one way and short lived.... and the killings stopped.
Yeah, I seem to remember that too. What's the big slight against the Kaminsky? Is there something that doesn't quite fit, apart from more sexy theories being posited?
 
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#32
Why did he stop killing? I mean, jack seemed to be de-evolving, getting more violent as he went, then why/how did he just stop?
He was so blatent its amazing that he wasnt discovered.
Maybe he was and it was covered up.
One of the suspects seemed to be ONLY a suspect because he suicided shortly after the last murder.
 

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#33
Why did he stop killing? I mean, jack seemed to be de-evolving, getting more violent as he went, then why/how did he just stop?
The more violent killings could of contributed to his breaking down of his relationship, talks of Mary starting prostitution again, when she still went a head with it the relationship fall apart(I believe they broke up during October at which point his killing took a sharp turn). When he finally killed Mary the built up frustration/heart ache was finally released and the psychosis chain broken. That is the one downfall in the theory, why did the killings have a sudden halt, its very unusual for a serial killing to strike so quickly, of each other and also have such a rapid development of violence. It does kinda point towards the person either died shortly after or was contained and another interesting point with the police they were so sure it was a local, someone like a Holmes quite easily could of slipped in slipped out with out too much notice given the focus of the police investigation, its not like travel records were very well kept, this would explain the quick succession and sound stop.
 

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#34
The more violent killings could of contributed to his breaking down of his relationship, talks of Mary starting prostitution again, when she still went a head with it the relationship fall apart(I believe they broke up during October at which point his killing took a sharp turn). When he finally killed Mary the built up frustration/heart ache was finally released and the psychosis chain broken. That is the one downfall in the theory, why did the killings have a sudden halt, its very unusual for a serial killing to strike so quickly, of each other and also have such a rapid development of violence. It does kinda point towards the person either died shortly after or was contained and another interesting point with the police they were so sure it was a local, someone like a Holmes quite easily could of slipped in slipped out with out too much notice given the focus of the police investigation, its not like travel records were very well kept, this would explain the quick succession and sound stop.
But do you think a visitng doctor from America in Whitechapel would not have been noticed by the locals. They also had a vested interest in finding the killer too.

The Eddowes murder in particular points to someone who would be both unobtrusive in the locality and knows his way around.
 

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#35
I find it hard to believe they were all the one guy. I think Pizer, Cohen and Barnett killed the five, operating seperately, trying to outdo each other due to the media attention.
 

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#36
But do you think a visitng doctor from America in Whitechapel would not have been noticed by the locals. They also had a vested interest in finding the killer too.

The Eddowes murder in particular points to someone who would be both unobtrusive in the locality and knows his way around.
Yes but its not too hard to imagine someone learning in a short space of time key locations. Remember this is the same guy who was pulled over by a police officer while moving barrels of human body parts and talked his way out of a search, these type of people are quite good at swooning individuals. This type of character specially during those time would of certainly never crossed people minds as someone who could be so ruthless.
 

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Thread starter Admin #37
The more violent killings could of contributed to his breaking down of his relationship, talks of Mary starting prostitution again, when she still went a head with it the relationship fall apart(I believe they broke up during October at which point his killing took a sharp turn). When he finally killed Mary the built up frustration/heart ache was finally released and the psychosis chain broken. That is the one downfall in the theory, why did the killings have a sudden halt, its very unusual for a serial killing to strike so quickly, of each other and also have such a rapid development of violence. It does kinda point towards the person either died shortly after or was contained and another interesting point with the police they were so sure it was a local, someone like a Holmes quite easily could of slipped in slipped out with out too much notice given the focus of the police investigation, its not like travel records were very well kept, this would explain the quick succession and sound stop.
Yeah, I buy the intensification angle due to/or being accelerated by a relationship breakdown or something particularly traumatic happening. I think we're also in agreement that it's impossible to imagine JTR just slipping back into a seemingly normal life after his murder. There had to be some sort of circuit breaker event that stopped him killing - jail, being killed, moving away, etc.

No matter how improbable HH Holmes seems, certain aspects kind of fit very well. Except, of course, the whole theory is so out there in relation to JTR being someone like Kazminsky (sic?).
 

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#38
Yes but its not too hard to imagine someone learning in a short space of time key locations. Remember this is the same guy who was pulled over by a police officer while moving barrels of human body parts and talked his way out of a search, these type of people are quite good at swooning individuals. This type of character specially during those time would of certainly never crossed people minds as someone who could be so ruthless.
Don't disagree with what you say, Im not an expert on Holmes story but I have just had a conversation on the phone with someone who is into sick and twisted beings. He's a non believer based on that he believes Holmes can be placed in and around Chicago in 1888-1890 building up a business network for a chemist shop he ran than owned and knocked the widow off too.

and has given me this link for starters that verifies his presence in Chicago mid 1888 while he delves into his books..... He's a scary bloke to with all those books.

starters. http://serialkillr.tripod.com/SerialKillersExposed/holmes.html

Than add this paragraph http://voices.yahoo.com/jack-ripper-h-h-holmes-similar-evils-one-in-4806210.html

In the fall of 1888, construction began on Holmes' castle on a vacant lot he had purchased across the street from the Holden's drug store. Holmes acted as his own architect for his castle personally supervising various construction crews - each of which were quickly hired and fired. The building contained over 60 rooms and 51 doors that were oddly cut into various walls. The design contained concealed staircases, false walls and ceilings, as well as airtight and soundproof rooms. There were also chutes that were used as victim cargo routes to a vast basement that housed windowless torture rooms equipped with trays of surgical instruments.

If that's accurate, and I belive it's widely accepted as being so His presence in Chiago at the same of the Ripper murders is assured.
 
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Thread starter Admin #39
Don't disagree with what you say, Im not an expert on Holmes story but I have just had a conversation on the phone with someone who is into sick and twisted beings. He's a non believer based on that he believes Holmes can be placed in and around Chicago in 1888-1890 building up a business network for a chemist shop he ran than owned and knocked the widow off too.

and has given me this link for starters that verifies his presence in Chicago mid 1888 while he delves into his books..... He's a scary bloke to with all those books.

starters. http://serialkillr.tripod.com/SerialKillersExposed/holmes.html
The person who designed that webpage should be locked up. Thanks for the info but.
 
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Thread starter Admin #41
I guess what one needs to do is to track down this guy with the HH Holme theory because that's surely something he'd have to be able to tick off. The most cursory research would expose it otherwise. However, we're talking about being reported in newspapers here.
 

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Yeah, I buy the intensification angle due to/or being accelerated by a relationship breakdown or something particularly traumatic happening. I think we're also in agreement that it's impossible to imagine JTR just slipping back into a seemingly normal life after his murder. There had to be some sort of circuit breaker event that stopped him killing - jail, being killed, moving away, etc.

No matter how improbable HH Holmes seems, certain aspects kind of fit very well. Except, of course, the whole theory is so out there in relation to JTR being someone like Kazminsky (sic?).
The Nathan Kazminsky/ David Cohen is one which seems very likely, change in names leading up to the event, suffering from the affects of syphilis, later admitted to an asylum. Nathan Kazaminsky records of his known whereabouts end mid 1888, a simple spelling error may of been responsible for him avoiding suspicion with Aaron Kosminski been heavily investigated instead. Though both were admitted to an asylum, Aaron was taunted as a gentle and harmless person, though you might argue his paranoid activity might of been the catalyst of the killings. However when you compare it to Nathan who was psychotic and regularly had to be tied down would suit the mental break down linked with the drastic change in the killings.
 

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#43
I saw a doco on JTR earlier this year, and they went through this guy, Im not a expert on this case but he seemed like a pretty good suspect. If you believe this doco, one of the lead investigators was convinced this guy was Jack and wrote about him in his diary many years later. I think scotland yard even followed him to new york.
 

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I saw a doco on JTR earlier this year, and they went through this guy, Im not a expert on this case but he seemed like a pretty good suspect. If you believe this doco, one of the lead investigators was convinced this guy was Jack and wrote about him in his diary many years later. I think scotland yard even followed him to new york.
I believe in years prior to the ripper murders they found a woman's uterus in a jar in his possession.

"The Juwes are the men That Will not be Blamed for nothing" Out there theory but I read somewhere they decided not to take pictures and clean the wall so it didn't invite riots from the new refugees, it's also be mentioned that they knew who jack the ripper was, if indeed he was Jewish, could have the information be withheld to protect the new influx of refugees?
 

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#45
I believe in years prior to the ripper murders they found a woman's uterus in a jar in his possession.

"The Juwes are the men That Will not be Blamed for nothing" Out there theory but I read somewhere they decided not to take pictures and clean the wall so it didn't invite riots from the new refugees, it's also be mentioned that they knew who jack the ripper was, if indeed he was Jewish, could have the information be withheld to protect the new influx of refugees?
I have a jack the ripper book that I read many years ago. Alot of theories about that message obviously, it was cleaned right away and investigators were pissed off because they didn't get to analyse it properly, but some suggested it may have just been to lead the cops down the wrong path. But obviously if it did mean something it was never really decoded as far as I know.
 

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#46
The Kozminski theory seems the simplest (Occam's Razor) - plus the Police seemed to think they knew who had the guy was and they knew the most.

But the alternative theories drift off ito the fantastic. My favorite is Steven Knight and his 'Mad Masons and The Royals' which basically winds up with Winston Churchill's Father being Jack. A variation on the Michael Caine mini-series (Sir William Withey Gull - Doctor to the Royal Family - was who they named in that one). The Mad Mason theory has been proven to be made up and completely fake.
 
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#47
The Kozminski theory seems the simplest (Occam's Razor) - plus the Police seemed to think they knew who had the guy was and they knew the most.

But the alternative theories drift off ito the fantastic. My favorite is Steven Knight and his 'Mad Masons and The Royals' which basically winds up with Winston Churchill's Father being Jack. A variation on the Michael Caine mini-series (Sir William Withey Gull - Doctor to the Royal Family - was who they named in that one). The Mad Mason theory has been proven to be made up and completely fake.
Has it really be proven false, or is it simply refuted by the Mason's. (How do I know you arent a Mason helping to cover it up)? :D
 

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#48
Trying to finalize on a ripper suspect really is like a kid in a candy store, find a new piece of evidence which leads to a whole new part of the story, fully changes your opinion of the events.

I have a jack the ripper book that I read many years ago. Alot of theories about that message obviously, it was cleaned right away and investigators were pissed off because they didn't get to analyse it properly, but some suggested it may have just been to lead the cops down the wrong path. But obviously if it did mean something it was never really decoded as far as I know.
Maybe like that one witness which wouldn't comment because he wouldn't send another jew to death, since it was just written after the third murder in which they suspect he was interrupted, maybe a Jewish man identified the ripper, so instead of informing the police he left a message pointing towards the killer, did right by his conscience but felt he had no part in what ever would come of it.
 
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#49
I'm very sceptical about the H H Holmes connection.
Some guy "Mudgett" finds out he is the ancestor of Holmes, who he previously knew nothing about. Then, even though others had previously researched it, all of a sudden he does a bit of research and proves a connection and publishes a book.
 

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#50
I've long subscribed to the David Cohen/Nathan Kamisky theory. It's not without its problems, but of all the "known" suspects, most are greatly impeached as far as I'm concerned. Cohen fits the bill and explains most of the circumstances of the case. If it's not Cohen-Kamisky then it's someone completely lost to history (which I have no problem in also believing) but whoever the "lost" person was, it was Cohen's identical crazy neighbor. :)
 
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