Recommitted Jack Viney [re-signed until 2025]

[old55]

Viney’s 20 possessions in the first final wasn’t going to make or break the final score, and his contribution certainly wasn’t the equivalent of 5 goals. Add a player of similar caliber, say Jack Redden, and the result remains the same. I’d also challenge him being the best player in the game against Hawthorn, with Gawn dominating and McDonald kicking 4 in a low scoring match. You’re exaggerating his influence in both cases.

Mid-season away games arent being big stage, high stakes encounters. Cripps consistently dominates against high quality teams, and unfortunately doesn’t have a finals record to judge finals performances. Based on his usual modus operandi it’s reasonable to project he’d continue on his H&A form.

There is a massive difference between champion players like Cripps and someone like Viney. Already Cripps has a players MVP and multiple AA’s to his name, which are achievements Viney can only dream of.

I was never comparing Cripps with Viney. I was simply using Cripps to show that your dismissal of Viney's terrific record in a small number of finals outings was ridiculous because if correct then Cripps has no record at all.

Cripps might be comparable with Oliver who is currently performing at the same level as Cripps and strongly superior when Cripps was the same age.

Let's see how Viney goes this year after a full pre-season.

 

[Marc_Remillard]

Theres’s no reason to add an OK-good inside mid on a big contract with so many young developing inside midfielders already on our list. We’ve invested heavily in this area already, and Viney would be a bandaid solution until these guys overtake him.

Please stop trolling

 

[Grimesy87]

Reflected by those 0 AA’s across a 7-year career.

Average.

Lucky ed curnow is a brownlow medalist... You really have no clue. Its hilarious

 

[iGNITER]

Couldn’t see many clubs that interested to be honest. Good honest player but worth way more to the Dees than what other clubs might offer.

 

[La Dispute]

Lucky ed curnow is a brownlow medalist... You really have no clue. Its hilarious

Is anyone making the claim Ed Curnow is one of the best inside midfielders in the league? Viney is barely better.

Amazing how many Melbourne supporters are offended others don’t rate their B-grader as highly as they do.

 

[Lampers]

I think Viney’s free agency will
be fascinating.

On the pro side for Melbourne his name has strong emotional ties to the club and its supporters. When fully fit he is a very good aggressive, hard as nails inside mid.

On the con side, as per @schmuttt’s post his kicking is poor and he hasn’t shown propensity to be anything other than an inside mid - and he has been injury prone.

I can see Melbourne offering a fair contract but nothing over the odds, but if Viney wants a mega-bucks contract I could definitely see Melbourne letting him go.

Melbourne are clearly trying to build flexibility into the midfield. Oliver has the pace and marking ability to play forward. Petracca similar as a mid/forward. Harmes is playing half back to build flexibility into his game. Brayshaw they tried on the wing and it failed, but he does have reasonable goal sense and can play half forward.

Viney doesn’t fit that template and if his surname was Johnson I think he’d be at a new club in 2021 based on list balance, salary saved and value of compensation pick. Melbourne already moved Dom Tyson out who was a similarly limited inside mid only player (albeit much slower foot speed than Viney).

With Harmes playing half back I’d like Viney to tag as that role suits his strengths. He has done well on Joel Selwood in the past tagging. Viney wouldn’t be able to tag the taller midfielders though as they would expose his lack of height by drifting forward.

 

[Dez!]

Is anyone making the claim Ed Curnow is one of the best inside midfielders in the league? Viney is barely better.

Amazing how many Melbourne supporters are offended others don’t rate their B-grader as highly as they do.

Nobody is offended you're just offering up nothing but utter bullshit that's all.

 

[Grimesy87]

Is anyone making the claim Ed Curnow is one of the best inside midfielders in the league? Viney is barely better.

Amazing how many Melbourne supporters are offended others don’t rate their B-grader as highly as they do.

Nah but you claimed setterfield as some destructor of midfields god-like Adonis, even though he's played what, 20 odd games and shows sfa. All hype, saying he is already better than viney shows you have no idea, at best. Viney might be no superstar, but if he's not getting a game in carltons so highly (by you) touted midfield because it's full of ed curnow, dow and setterfield, then happy to watch Carlton stay bottom 4 YET again. Cripps might be one of the league's best, but even he can't make up for that sorry lot lol.

Ed curnow though big lols

 

[La Dispute]

Nobody is offended you're just offering up nothing but utter bullshit that's all.

Still waiting to hear anything compelling in the opposite direction from a Melbourne supporter.

His biggest selling point - as this is a discussion largely about his worth as a footballer - is a decent game he played in a final 2 years ago.

Otherwise he is a poorly skilled, bland footballer who’s best attributes are actually intangibles in his leadership and competitiveness. He is one-dimensional, has reached no great heights after 7 years on an AFL list and has improved very little from his first few seasons.

There will be clubs keen to take him on as a good 3rd-4th mid, but he’s not a great player.

 

[Grimesy87]

Nobody is offended you're just offering up nothing but utter bullshit that's all.

But ed curnow! Didn't you know he's one of the league's best midfielders? And will setterfield is elite after 20 games.

I did enjoy his 12 disposal game tonight though.

 

[La Dispute]

Nah but you claimed setterfield as some destructor of midfields god-like Adonis, even though he's played what, 20 odd games and shows sfa. All hype, saying he is already better than viney shows you have no idea, at best. Viney might be no superstar, but if he's not getting a game in carltons so highly (by you) touted midfield because it's full of ed curnow, dow and setterfield, then happy to watch Carlton stay bottom 4 YET again. Cripps might be one of the league's best, but even he can't make up for that sorry lot lol.

Ed curnow though big lols

Melbourne finished 17th last season, so this hissy fit is a little bit ill-directed.

But once again I’ll reiterate that we have invested heavily into young inside midfielders, at least a few of which get to Viney’s moderate level, and as such we have little use extending a decent contract his way.

 

[Dez!]

Still waiting to hear anything compelling in the opposite direction from a Melbourne supporter.

His biggest selling point - as this is a discussion largely about his worth as a footballer - is a decent game he played in a final 2 years ago.

Otherwise he is a poorly skilled, bland footballer who’s best attributes are actually intangibles in his leadership and competitiveness. He is one-dimensional, has reached no great heights after 7 years on an AFL list and has improved very little from his first few seasons.

There will be clubs keen to take him on as a good 3rd-4th mid, but he’s not a great player.

You've been given arguments but you're just ignoring them.

Also laughable that you're calling his finals games "decent", it's clear you're completely uneducated on anything football related but I really should've picked up on this when you started listing someone as useless as Setterfield as a future key piece for Carlton.

 

[La Dispute]

You've been given arguments but you're just ignoring them.

Also laughable that you're calling his finals games "decent", it's clear you're completely uneducated on anything football related but I really should've picked up on this when you started listing someone as useless as Setterfield as a future key piece for Carlton.

That’s not arguments, that’s the argument. Viney played well in a 5-goal win that happened to be a final, so all importance should be conferred here.

I have already advised this is flimsy and scant evidence of Viney being a high-quality footballer and any list manager worth his salt would be looking at his career factoring his injury issues, game style, player attributes and find him wanting.

 

[Robertio]

But ed curnow! Didn't you know he's one of the league's best midfielders? And will setterfield is elite after 20 games.

I did enjoy his 12 disposal game tonight though.

I'm enjoying the debate, but where did he say this?

 

[markm106]

I’d be staggered if Viney isn’t at Melbourne next season.

 

[Grimesy87]

I'm enjoying the debate, but where did he say this?

It's not really a debate. Myself and other demon posters have all basically said the same- he's played some great games in big matches, but was horseshit last year. Old mate said Carlton biggest need isn't an inside mid and quoted the following players: curnow, dow, kennedy and silvagni as reason the blues are stocked there. While I'll agree with the premise that Carlton would be better off chasing a classy small forward, an inside mid to take some load off cripps would still be a pretty solid investment. Walsh is still only 19, dow is an even worse kick than viney (perhaps he's been played out of position thus far), O'Brien must have played nearly 40 games now and is looking more a bust with each passing one. SPS looks more a flanker than mid, save for a few quarters gere and there. Kennedy is bog average, if he wasn't built like a brick shithouse he would probably struggle for a game at all, curnow must be 30odd anyway, if not older... and Kemp looks a great pick but isn't going to make any difference to your list this year...

I'm struggling to see the optimism outside of cripps for your blokes midfield. Yes Walsh looks an absolute fanatic trainer and young leader too, but he's one of the worst young kicks you'd see. His fitness and standards will mean he gets the best out of himself, but he is never going to be an elite kick.

Viney deserves his knockers for an ordinary 2019, as do most mfc players, but he's shown for more in 2016/17/18 than any of your midfield sans cripps. Walsh obviously gets the benefit of the doubt after one season for the reasons above. I'll happily debate this further after round 11 or so, and if I'm wrong on this I'll acknowledge it.

 

[Robertio]

It's not really a debate. Myself and other demon posters have all basically said the same- he's played some great games in big matches, but was horseshit last year. Old mate said Carlton biggest need isn't an inside mid and quoted the following players: curnow, dow, kennedy and silvagni as reason the blues are stocked there. While I'll agree with the premise that Carlton would be better off chasing a classy small forward, an inside mid to take some load off cripps would still be a pretty solid investment. Walsh is still only 19, dow is an even worse kick than viney (perhaps he's been played out of position thus far), O'Brien must have played nearly 40 games now and is looking more a bust with each passing one. SPS looks more a flanker than mid, save for a few quarters gere and there. Kennedy is bog average, if he wasn't built like a brick shithouse he would probably struggle for a game at all, curnow must be 30odd anyway, if not older... and Kemp looks a great pick but isn't going to make any difference to your list this year...

I'm struggling to see the optimism outside of cripps for your blokes midfield. Yes Walsh looks an absolute fanatic trainer and young leader too, but he's one of the worst young kicks you'd see. His fitness and standards will mean he gets the best out of himself, but he is never going to be an elite kick.

Viney deserves his knockers for an ordinary 2019, as do most mfc players, but he's shown for more in 2016/17/18 than any of your midfield sans cripps. Walsh obviously gets the benefit of the doubt after one season for the reasons above. I'll happily debate this further after round 11 or so, and if I'm wrong on this I'll acknowledge it.

That's a fair post mate, for starters i rate Viney but not for us as you said we need a small forward-back. You missed on O'Brien i think he'll be a very good winger, not an inside mid and the rest of our young onballers as you said is all optimism on our part. Setterfield is the one that will help Cripps and we also drafted a couple of very quick mids this year, so it all depends on Teagues game plan to know what we really want.

 

[Grimesy87]

That's a fair post mate, for starters i rate Viney but not for us as you said we need a small forward-back. You missed on O'Brien i think he'll be a very good winger, not an inside mid and the rest of our young onballers as you said is all optimism on our part. Setterfield is the one that will help Cripps and we also drafted a couple of very quick mids this year, so it all depends on Teagues game plan to know what we really want.

I'll be sure to watch more O'Brien then, a few of the games I watched I wasn't overly impressed. You guys would watch him more than me and know the ins and out though. Without derailing this thread further, your list isnt in bad shape apart from those few flaws. Probably needs a fit bill of health to measure as you've had your share of injuries past year or 2.

A player of Vineys calibre fit and healthy would still improve yours, and nearly every other clubs, midfield though.

 

[marcus1232]

Can’t see him leaving seems like a heart and soul player that you want on your list the type you want to go war with.

His 2018 was excellent, he was down in 2019 but not the only one at Melbourne.

 

[Sinjin Smith]

A fit Viney would walk into our midfield, second or third named with Walsh. As unlikely as it is if we nabbed him has an RFA with an appropriate salary it would be a great fit. I have high hopes for Setterfield, Stocker, and Dow but they have only shown glimpses. Hopefully they keep progressing and we wont be in a position to need Viney but as it stands right now that is not the the case

 

[Grimesy87]

A fit Viney would walk into our midfield, second or third named with Walsh. As unlikely as it is if we nabbed him has an RFA with an appropriate salary it would be a great fit. I have high hopes for Setterfield, Stocker, and Dow but they have only shown glimpses. Hopefully they keep progressing and we wont be in a position to need Viney but as it stands right now that is not the the case

Nail on the head

 

[The Nostradamus]

Shouldn’t have taken the captaincy off him for Gawn if all people lol

 

[ForeverHardcore]

Guy bleeds red and blue can’t see him leaving
Will be one of 9 equal brownlow medalists at seasons end he was unreal in round 1!

 

[ArdentEagle]

He's one of my favourite (non Eagle) players. A footballers footballer. Probably goes too hard sometimes but he's an absolute bull (don't give a toss he's only 178cm.)

Would love him at the Eagles.

 

[The Nostradamus]

I could see dees letting him go due to them being slow in the centre square and you wouldn’t let Oliver, trac or bray leave