Jack will come back & bite us

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

In fairness Carl there is a massive area of middle ground between what you have suggested above and what actually took place. Do you not concede at all that Jack could have handled the situation a little better?

These things are never easy and Im sure there really is no right way to tell a club you are leaving, but to string them along for weeks negotiating a contract and then walk out with a few hours notice would seem more wrong than right.

The bolded bit is the key point. However he behaved, we'd end up hating him.

Heck Davis had a full press conference, fronted his peers, explained his reasons and is still copping the Davi$ barbs and "won't be disappointed if he does his shoulder" responses.

As for the stringing along, I don't know.

When did an interstate suitor put a proposed contract in front of him? Not to mention give him some assurance that they would 'come to the party' in a trade with Adelaide. Wouldn't make sense for him to play his hand prior to that. Not to mention the lottery of trade week, a deal possibly not going through... ending up in the draft. Far too many unknowns to be putting all your eggs in one basket.

Maybe Gunston could have self-sacrificed in order to be nicer to his original club. But I don't think we should be expecting that from any of our players. It's a business for us, it's a career for them. Good blokes, mates rates, loyalty to the jumper... these are terms from Neil's beloved old AFL.

 

[jackster83]

Gotta say that McKernan staying at the club was a surprise. I thought if anyone was going to leave, it would be him.

If Sando and co can help him get the best out of himself, he will go a long way to filling one of the positions vacated by Davis/Gunston.

 

[Wood_Duck]

The bolded bit is the key point. However he behaved, we'd end up hating him.

Heck Davis had a full press conference, fronted his peers, explained his reasons and is still copping the Davi$ barbs and "won't be disappointed if he does his shoulder" responses.

Its funny, I'm probably the odd one out here, but I really dont blame Davis for leaving. I dont think anyone can say what they would have done in the same situation. Its very easy to say that you have incredibly high levels of moral fibre when you know you will never find yourself in that situation.

 

[Hank93]

Does it really matter? Yeh it sucks Gunston and Davis left and most of us will hold a grudge against Gunston every time we see him play for Hawthorn. But who cares now.

Both of them have moved on, and both got us good returns on their departure via trades.

Let's focus on the Adelaide Football Club in 2012 and beyond, not two former players that played a grand total of 32 games for the Crows.

 

[Allefgib]

Agreed hdecure.

The only thing I like dwell on is.. what do we need to do to mitigate it happening again. We can't move on too far without asking that question.

Davis I think most agree we couldn't have done much about.

Gunston - maybe we needed to change our recruiting approach, or get better at being mroe successful, or focus on turning over the list faster to give young guys like him more opportunities. Who knows.. but don't just ignore it and bank on it not happening again.

 

[Hank93]

Agreed hdecure.

The only thing I like dwell on is.. what do we need to do to mitigate it happening again. We can't move on too far without asking that question.

Davis I think most agree we couldn't have done much about.

Gunston - maybe we needed to change our recruiting approach, or get better at being mroe successful, or focus on turning over the list faster to give young guys like him more opportunities. Who knows.. but don't just ignore it and bank on it not happening again.

No doubt, but the past 50 posts have been about what Jack could have done to avoid being labeled a "pathetic prick". Move on folks.

 

[Allefgib]

I think you'll find the core issue is some people are concerned that some want to focus on labelling him a pathetic prick - when they feel the real issue is, what changes do we need to make to mitigate it happening again.

saying 'move on' gets those types riled up - as you are not acknowledging the core need to address the underlying issue and it can lead to a 'sweep it under the carpet' mentality.

Now, i'm sure the club isn't doing that - esp with what sando has said on the matter.

People will want to bicker it out dude.. saying 'move on' typically just throws petrol on the matter and doesn't allow people to get to what really bothers them.

Now that we've managed to get to a point we can all agree on.. it'll die out fast

 

[jenny61_99]

Up until the last two years, Bigfella, we'd been playing in finals every year. The players all seemed (not saying they did, but it certainly appeared that way) to love the Club/Coach and all felt we were building to "something special".

Then 2010 happened and, although there were a clever few who saw it as a result of poor coaching/recruiting decisions from the past, most of us (Club included) thought it was the annus horribilus - you know, the year where everything went wrong. There was still enough goodwill there (and admiration for what Craig was trying to achieve) that players signed contracts (which surprised some of the naysayers I think). Then 2011 appeared to be a repeat of 2010 - only worse - because the players weren't even playing (forgotten how?) with any passion it seemed. The writing was clearly on the wall.

With Craig leaving, we may have seen the "rats leaving the sinking ship" type scenario but with the exception of Gunston (Davis had made his decision early in the year, and was $$ and future driven so that doesn't count - we could never have matched what GWS were offering) nobody else jumped ship. So have we created a club where players don't want to stay? I don't think so.

I compare it to what happened at the Lions after Voss made his monumental decision to try and trade Bradshaw against his will (and without his knowledge at first!). This one act put a good percentage of players off side and as a consequence, the Lions had quite an exxodus of quality players because they didn't want to stay and play for Voss. I don't see our situation as being like that at all.

Gunston wanted to go home. My feeling is that he is indeed like Buckley. Came to Adelaide only because he was drafted here, and at the first opportunity (ie. when his contract was up for renewal), headed back home. Don't know that he cared where, just that it was back in Melbourne. I think the only thing that might have changed his mind was if we'd challenged for the flag or looked like serious contenders for the following year. (We all know what happened to Buckley/Brisbane after Bucks left!)

And again, I just say - it's one player. It's not like we had 50% of players that were up for renewal last year requesting trades. Then and only then would I think there was a substantial problem.

 

[Allefgib]

So now we're debating the actualy true point, IMO.

Don't disagree with alot of what you said - but given our situation, being small-town Adelaide, I'm fully in Sando's boat - WE need to make sure guys don't want to leave. We're possibly more exposed to that risk than the million teams in Melbourne for instance.

So the type of analysis you've just done is important for us to mitigate the risks of it happening again.

Not stopping it - mitigating it.

In Jack's case.. maybe that's getting inside his head more before we recruit him? Brisbane knew up front Bucks didn't want to be there didn't they? Perhaps in a simialr situation they wouldn't do it again - but having said that.. decent trade bait.

I don't know the answers and its possibly true we are comfortable as a club that we are at the level we need to be to mitigate this risk.

If so - great. Everytime a situation like Jack's happens though you need to review it to reassess if we can improve. (ideally before that.. but even more so after such a situation).

 

[cm_perfect]

So now we're debating the actualy true point, IMO.

Don't disagree with alot of what you said - but given our situation, being small-town Adelaide, I'm fully in Sando's boat - WE need to make sure guys don't want to leave. We're possibly more exposed to that risk than the million teams in Melbourne for instance.

So the type of analysis you've just done is important for us to mitigate the risks of it happening again.

Not stopping it - mitigating it.

In Jack's case.. maybe that's getting inside his head more before we recruit him? Brisbane knew up front Bucks didn't want to be there didn't they? Perhaps in a simialr situation they wouldn't do it again - but having said that.. decent trade bait.

I don't know the answers and its possibly true we are comfortable as a club that we are at the level we need to be to mitigate this risk.

If so - great. Everytime a situation like Jack's happens though you need to review it to reassess if we can improve. (ideally before that.. but even more so after such a situation).

From memory we were keen on Cyril Rioli in 2007 but he said he was not interested in staying in Adelaide so we moved onto Danger instead..

My feelings are that Gunston is the exception not the rule, with recent departures from the AFC he is the only one to frock up and run off with his tail between his legs.

Maric (game time), Bock/Davis ($$), Armstrong (see Maric)

Gunston wanted out so there is not much we could of done, he is not in the tri-colours now so I could not really give a shit whether he comes good or not.

Geez I am looking forward to this year, have not been this excited since NC took over

 

[Hank93]

I think you'll find the core issue is some people are concerned that some want to focus on labelling him a pathetic prick - when they feel the real issue is, what changes do we need to make to mitigate it happening again.

saying 'move on' gets those types riled up - as you are not acknowledging the core need to address the underlying issue and it can lead to a 'sweep it under the carpet' mentality.

Now, i'm sure the club isn't doing that - esp with what sando has said on the matter.

People will want to bicker it out dude.. saying 'move on' typically just throws petrol on the matter and doesn't allow people to get to what really bothers them.

Now that we've managed to get to a point we can all agree on.. it'll die out fast

Great point. :thumbs:

We already know the club is trying it's hardest to make the AFC a place you would never want to leave.

I'm backing them in

 

[A FEW GOOD MEN]

Agreed hdecure.


Gunston - maybe we needed to change our recruiting approach, or get better at being more successful, or focus on turning over the list faster to give young guys like him more opportunities. Who knows.. but don't just ignore it and bank on it not happening again.

And the tradition continues............

Give guys like him more opportunities?

Jack was drafted at the end of the second round at number 29. He was one of the youngest players drafted in the first 2 rounds. Amongst the 33 players in the first 2 rounds (which includes Luke Ball and Jetta who was 20 when drafted) 15 players have played less games than Jack.

But it gets better, as we all know taller players tend to take longer to develop. There were only six players over 190cm including Jack. Who's played the most games??????????????????

Yes, that would be Jack Gunston.

 

[Allefgib]

At our club? So you're measuring whether they gave him enough opportunities agianst how our club does it but not the league average?

Either way, we may have got it spot on and he still left.

What I'm saying is stop defending the situation and bitching about Jack.

Use it as an opportunity to open our eyes and analyse IF there was anything we can/needed to do differently.

To me it sounds like Sando has and he reckons some team success/hope is possibly an area he feels we need to improve in to mitigate flight risks.. not rule them out - MITIGATE them.

Pull one direct comment from me in this thread that says the club did the wrong thing.

Its not club bashing - its just worrying about what the club can do to mitigate situations like this from happening again versus Jack bashing (which is of minimal benefit and may be ignoring underlying issues. MAY)

 

[Geoffa32]

Gotta say that McKernan staying at the club was a surprise. I thought if anyone was going to leave, it would be him.

If Sando and co can help him get the best out of himself, he will go a long way to filling one of the positions vacated by Davis/Gunston.

He is the one I can see who should prosper with Jack leaving.

Jenkins is next cab off the rank.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

And the tradition continues............

Give guys like him more opportunities?

Jack was drafted at the end of the second round at number 29. He was one of the youngest players drafted in the first 2 rounds. Amongst the 33 players in the first 2 rounds (which includes Luke Ball and Jetta who was 20 when drafted) 15 players have played less games than Jack.

But it gets better, as we all know taller players tend to take longer to develop. There were only six players over 190cm including Jack. Who's played the most games??????????????????

Yes, that would be Jack Gunston.

What does Sanderson mean?

 

[Slippery Pete]

saying 'move on' gets those types riled up - as you are not acknowledging the core need to address the underlying issue and it can lead to a 'sweep it under the carpet' mentality.

Touche.

It's a thread about Jack Gunston. I'm not sure how he missed it.

Is this a new trend? Opening up threads and telling people not to talk about the subject title? Could catch on.

 

[Slippery Pete]

What does Sanderson mean?

Whatever it was he meant, I'm sure Neil has said it before..............

 

[Cap]

What does Sanderson mean?

Alexanders son according the internet

 

[jenny61_99]

Bigfella I think what you say is true of ALL clubs (that success creates an environment where players are more likely to stay) - yet somehow teams that have not been successful for some time still manage to keep their players. Except for the Voss/Lions debacle, I think it has to be judged on an individual team basis. Nothing about our recent player losses screams to me. But you are right, you can still ask the questions - would Davis have stayed if we were close(r) to premiership success? And if he went for the $$$, does that say more about him than the Club? Clearly every Club goes through highs and lows and players would be stupid to switch from Club to Club to chase that elusive flag (again I site Buckley).

Maric and Armstrong had no choice - if they wanted to play AFL, they had to go somewhere where they were going to get an opportunity. I don't think anyone here begrudges them that. And I think most have accepted Bock would have been crazy to knock back the GC offer given his age and injury riddled recent past.

 

[Allefgib]

Of course its true for all clubs. I think we have a higher risk than say Collingwood does though. Even if you grew up hating collingwood, you'd still be happy playing there (in the majority).

I think your point on teams that have not been successful for some time keeping their players.. and we haven't.. definitely increases the need for us to look inside ourselves a little and assess if changes are required.

That's all myself, Pete, Carl are saying.

Of course you can easily justify Davis/Bock as no wins, can say we didn't want Maric/Armstrong anyway.. and that Jack is a sook.

But what does that achieve?

More of the same, given the same set of circumstances.

Some people might call that 'insanity'

 

[jenny61_99]

And I think sometimes people over analyse situations to such an extent that they soon disappear up their own...

In a nutshell, I agree that we should ask the questions. I personally don't believe there is any reason to believe that players are leaving due to an inherent fault within our Club/Culture that somehow needs "fixing". But maybe we have to somehow test for possible greed and sook syndromes in the future.

 

[Southerntakeover]

I think you need to broaden the picture. Its not just a matter of who are we losing in trade periods, but also who are we unable to convince to come back. Its the same issue. Are we seen as an attractive destination to play out your career? Why, or why not?

 

[Wood_Duck]

. Are we seen as an attractive destination to play out your career? Why, or why not?

If the AFC was based in Melbourne, I think we could solve the problem.

 

[bjn1960]

This thread is changing me, I'm gonna leave

 

[bjn1960]

I dont like what Im becoming.