News Jackson Hately requests trade to Adelaide

[The Sloane Ranger]

What makes you think we'll use the PSD at all?

None of us know at this stage

That decision will be player market driven and dependent on our overall trade strategy

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[Vader]

None of us know at this stage

That decision will be player market driven and dependent on our overall trade strategy

The PSD is something we have in our back pocket, which strengthens our negotiating position. That's all it is. It's highly unlikely that we'll actually use it.

Adelaide & GWS have a history of trading amicably, and I don't expect things to be any different this year.

 

[Jarman3]

If we didn't use the PSD to get Hately, who else would we be using it for? Surely not Fantasia?

We should offer GWS a deal that's not great for them, just so we can keep threatening others with the PSD. Again, I'd ask what Bonar was worth, a 3rd and 4th, like 44 and 50

PSD isn't an option for Fantasia, he's still got 1 year left on his contract at Essendon.

 

[Betts are off]

If we didn't use the PSD to get Hately, who else would we be using it for? Surely not Fantasia?

We should offer GWS a deal that's not great for them, just so we can keep threatening others with the PSD. Again, I'd ask what Bonar was worth, a 3rd and 4th, like 44 and 50

Do we need to keep it for leverage in the Brad Crouch situation? Obviously if that deal goes through day 1 then probably not. But if we are 20mins from deadline and still doing that dance, surely we still need access to the PSD as the threat squasher right?

 

[Samcro24]

We shouldn’t spend 29.

I love having pick 1 in the PSD

This would only be better if Hately played for Essendon or the Bulldogs

Surely Carlton would be your preference?

 

[Bearded Clam]

Surely Carlton would be your preference?

Imagine Carlton offer Mcgovern sweet FA (say $400- 450k a year) and he spits the dummy and walks to the PSD.. we swoop in and pick him up for nothing!..

Trade him for 13 and Mcadam in 2018... get him back for nothing two years later..

The Carlton board will go into nuclear meltdown..

 

[Vader]

Imagine Carlton offer Mcgovern sweet FA (say $400- 450k a year) and he spits the dummy and walks to the PSD.. we swoop in and pick him up for nothing!..

Trade him for 13 and Mcadam in 2018... get him back for nothing two years later..

The Carlton board will go into nuclear meltdown..

Nah... they'd be pissing themselves laughing at our stupidity, for taking him off their hands.

 

[Jarman3]

Imagine Carlton offer Mcgovern sweet FA (say $400- 450k a year) and he spits the dummy and walks to the PSD.. we swoop in and pick him up for nothing!..

Trade him for 13 and Mcadam in 2018... get him back for nothing two years later..

The Carlton board will go into nuclear meltdown..

Might as well re-draft Gibbs

 

[Bearded Clam]

Nah... they'd be pissing themselves laughing at our stupidity, for taking him off their hands.

Probably.

I really dont want the lazy *er anywhere our list TBH.. just threw it up as a funny hyperthetical..

 

[Regista]

Should we even be trading the Dogs pick? Should get him for less.

 

[Bob Neil]

Is it not true to say that we could , with 100% certainty, secure Hately through the PSD if we wanted to (he’s out of contract, we have pick #1 and there are no contractual or other impediments to this).

Therefore any pick we do offer - and ultimately pay - for him represents largely or perhaps entirely the value we place on our trading reputation in general and our relationship with GWS in particular.

There is no other reason I can see not to use the PSD perhaps other than preserving the PSD option for any other unspecified negotiations with uncontracted players.

It will therefore be interesting to see how we play it and accurately gauge our trading philosophy and strategy.

 

[Shaz2012]

Is it not true to say that we could , with 100% certainty, secure Hately through the PSD if we wanted to (he’s out of contract, we have pick #1 and there are no contractual or other impediments to this).

Therefore any pick we do offer - and ultimately pay - for him represents largely or perhaps entirely the value we place on our trading reputation in general and our relationship with GWS in particular.

There is no other reason I can see not to use the PSD perhaps other than preserving the PSD option for any other unspecified negotiations with uncontracted players.

It will therefore be interesting to see how we play it and accurately gauge our trading philosophy and strategy.

Its always the case every year with the bottom placed team. And to an extent the bottom teams. It is inherently part of the equalisation system and always has been.

The idea that we could just be total assholes is not novel either, just ask Dorodo.

 

[ltdamn]

If we didn't use the PSD to get Hately, who else would we be using it for? Surely not Fantasia?

We should offer GWS a deal that's not great for them, just so we can keep threatening others with the PSD. Again, I'd ask what Bonar was worth, a 3rd and 4th, like 44 and 50

Fantasia isn't out of contract, (one year to go) so we will need to keep picks if we decide we want him. It's also Essendon, so we will start with them asking for Pick #1 and Ollie Wines as a base and have to negotiate down.

Just makes the PSD option for Hately even more logical unless GWS want to swap some of our picks from this year into next, as we're unlikely to use all of them in this draft I'd assume, but might benefit from extra points next year.

 

[Scorpus]

Is it not true to say that we could , with 100% certainty, secure Hately through the PSD if we wanted to (he’s out of contract, we have pick #1 and there are no contractual or other impediments to this).

Therefore any pick we do offer - and ultimately pay - for him represents largely or perhaps entirely the value we place on our trading reputation in general and our relationship with GWS in particular.

There is no other reason I can see not to use the PSD perhaps other than preserving the PSD option for any other unspecified negotiations with uncontracted players.

It will therefore be interesting to see how we play it and accurately gauge our trading philosophy and strategy.

It's not quite as simple as that. He'd have to make it through the main draft first, and to do that would likely need to place a very large contract on his head.

Paying a draft pick of an appropriate price may save us some salary for a guy that really isn't worth a huge contract yet

 

[ad victoriam]

I will say it today, I firmly believe the Hately trade will be one of the first announced during trade week,

 

[Bob Neil]

Its always the case every year with the bottom placed team. And to an extent the bottom teams. It is inherently part of the equalisation system and always has been.

The idea that we could just be total assholes is not novel either, just ask Dorodo.

I agree ltdamn - it's just that this is a 'pure' example whereby we are the bottom team and we do have an uncontracted player nominating us (not sure how many years this happens). Don't always get this exact confluence of events.

Last year with Jack Martin he did use the PSD to get to Carlton but they didn't have the 1st pick so in essence they did have some reason (certainty) to place a token bid for Martin (which they supposedly did).

On the flipside you can also reasonably assess Gold Coast's response (to not accept a token bid) as being partially due to their assessment of value of signalling (to clubs, players, player managers) that they can be a tough negotiator when needed. You can say that they cut off their nose to spite their face but clearly they saw greater value in sending a message and losing Martin for nothing than accepting a huge discount (3rd round or whatever it was) on his underlying value.

 

[Bob Neil]

It's not quite as simple as that. He'd have to make it through the main draft first, and to do that would likely need to place a very large contract on his head.

Paying a draft pick of an appropriate price may save us some salary for a guy that really isn't worth a huge contract yet

I don't believe that is the case Scorpus. From memory the player has the choice as to which draft that they enter - PSD or National (aka "main draft") - and are not obliged to go through the main draft if they don't wish.

I think from memory Luke Ball may have got to Collingwood via the National Draft rather than the PSD and presumably that may have been because Collingwood did not have an early pick in the PSD and hence it would have been too risky to go via that route. They (Collingwood and Ball) presumed correctly that other clubs would be less likely to spend a pick in the National Draft as compared to the PSD and hence it was the easiest way for him to get to that destination (assuming salary terms were identical either way).

 

[Jarman3]

Fantasia isn't out of contract, (one year to go) so we will need to keep picks if we decide we want him. It's also Essendon, so we will start with them asking for Pick #1 and Ollie Wines as a base and have to negotiate down.

Just makes the PSD option for Hately even more logical unless GWS want to swap some of our picks from this year into next, as we're unlikely to use all of them in this draft I'd assume, but might benefit from extra points next year.

The thing working in our favour in the Fantasia negotiations is that we don't particularly want or need him. It's not like we've been trying to prise him out of Essendon - HE has come to US and said he wants to come home. If Essendon play hardball on it we just tell him "sorry, we tried, couldn't get a deal done, see you next year when you're a free agent".

Worst case is next year Port swoop in and take him as FA instead of us, and if that happens is anybody here really going to be all that cut up about it?

 

[Vader]

It's not quite as simple as that. He'd have to make it through the main draft first, and to do that would likely need to place a very large contract on his head.

Paying a draft pick of an appropriate price may save us some salary for a guy that really isn't worth a huge contract yet

Players can nominate just for the PSD, and not the ND, providing they have previously been on an AFL list (i.e. not 1st year draftees).

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[ltdamn]

I agree ltdamn - it's just that this is a 'pure' example whereby we are the bottom team and we do have an uncontracted player nominating us (not sure how many years this happens). Don't always get this exact confluence of events.

Last year with Jack Martin he did use the PSD to get to Carlton but they didn't have the 1st pick so in essence they did have some reason (certainty) to place a token bid for Martin (which they supposedly did).

On the flipside you can also reasonably assess Gold Coast's response (to not accept a token bid) as being partially due to their assessment of value of signalling (to clubs, players, player managers) that they can be a tough negotiator when needed. You can say that they cut off their nose to spite their face but clearly they saw greater value in sending a message and losing Martin for nothing than accepting a huge discount (3rd round or whatever it was) on his underlying value.

Exactly. Prior to FA, the PSD was basically the only mechanic un-contracted players could use to move semi-freely and this happened on a frequent basis. Campo was actually a good example of this;

'At the end of the 2005 season, Camporeale left Carlton, following his desire for a three-year contract, when Carlton would only offer a two-year contract.[2] Carlton tried to make it difficult for him to leave, so Camporeale nominated for the 2006 Pre-season Draft. Essendon drafted Camporeale with draft pick number four in the pre-season draft.'

Among others, Mal Michael, Scott Welsh, Josh Carr, Daniel Bradshaw and Bachar Houli all moved clubs via the PSD prior to the introduction of FA after deciding to leave their existing clubs of their own choice.

 

[ltdamn]

The thing working in our favour in the Fantasia negotiations is that we don't particularly want or need him. It's not like we've been trying to prise him out of Essendon - HE has come to US and said he wants to come home. If Essendon play hardball on it we just tell him "sorry, we tried, couldn't get a deal done, see you next year when you're a free agent".

Worst case is next year Port swoop in and take him as FA instead of us, and if that happens is anybody here really going to be all that cut up about it?

I think he said any club in SA, and was pretty close to moving to Port last year. I like him and think he could get fit under a proper fitness program (away from Essendon) and he'd add to our forward line which struggles to convert. Not sure Port would be that into him anymore with their crop of draftees stepping up as much as they have.

 

[Vader]

I don't believe that is the case Scorpus. From memory the player has the choice as to which draft that they enter - PSD or National (aka "main draft") - and are not obliged to go through the main draft if they don't wish.

Correct. Players who have previously been on an AFL list have this option. First year draftees do not.

I think from memory Luke Ball may have got to Collingwood via the National Draft rather than the PSD and presumably that may have been because Collingwood did not have an early pick in the PSD and hence it would have been too risky to go via that route. They (Collingwood and Ball) presumed correctly that other clubs would be less likely to spend a pick in the National Draft as compared to the PSD and hence it was the easiest way for him to get to that destination (assuming salary terms were identical either way).

Ball went to Collingwood via the ND, using the exact pick which St Kilda refused to accept in the trade.

There have been very few players/trades which broke down so completely that the player ended up leaving via the ND or PSD. Camporeale, Stevens, Martin, Ball, Pond Scum. The fact that we can recall them all so clearly is an indicator of just how rare these occurrences really are, and just how many end up being traded completely amicably without needing to take the "nuclear option".

 

[Scorpus]

I don't believe that is the case Scorpus. From memory the player has the choice as to which draft that they enter - PSD or National (aka "main draft") - and are not obliged to go through the main draft if they don't wish.

I think from memory Luke Ball may have got to Collingwood via the National Draft rather than the PSD and presumably that may have been because Collingwood did not have an early pick in the PSD and hence it would have been too risky to go via that route. They (Collingwood and Ball) presumed correctly that other clubs would be less likely to spend a pick in the National Draft as compared to the PSD and hence it was the easiest way for him to get to that destination (assuming salary terms were identical either way).

I'm not sure this is true. Jack Martin nominated for the 2019 national draft before he was taken in the PSD. You'll see his name in the list of players who nominated

The discussion at the time was he has to nominate for the main draft and be passed on to be eligible for the PSD, or he would need to be formally delisted after the main draft

 

[Vader]

I'm not sure this is true. Jack Martin nominated for the 2019 national draft before he was taken in the PSD. You'll see his name in the list of players who nominated

The discussion at the time was he has to nominate for the main draft and be passed on to be eligible for the PSD, or he would need to be formally delisted after the main draft

Players nominate for the draft, but can have their nomination held over until the PSD.

Refer to page 10 of the 2020 AFL Draft Nomination Handbook: https://nabafldraftnom.com.au/images/form/booklet_mens.pdf

Players no longer have to survive the ND, in order to be selected in the PSD. They can simply nominate for the PSD.

 

[1970crow]

It's not quite as simple as that. He'd have to make it through the main draft first, and to do that would likely need to place a very large contract on his head.

Paying a draft pick of an appropriate price may save us some salary for a guy that really isn't worth a huge contract yet

Why would he have to go through the main draft? It's his choice which draft he nominates for.