Jacqui Lambie Watch

[Crankyhawk]

Already answered in #341.

Seems you like to classify an anti sharia view as religious bigotry. I see sharia, with its anti western views, pro religion views and values as being anti what i want, so happily tell it * off.

Id do the same if other religions muscled in over current laws. Yes i am aware our current legal system has a fair base from the 10 commandments - well its the system i grew up with, and we dont do all the nutty things out of the book (eg when they say menstruating women are unclean, sheets should be burned etc). Am i being a selfish westerncentric? Damn straight i am. And will reject other religious/ sky fairy influences on the socity i want.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

"Sharia" is basically like the English word "faith". Where someone might say "good Christians" or "people of faith" should act in a certain way, "Sharia" is the "path" or "way" that Islamic people think Islamic people should behave.

What that "path" or "way" is, is entirely up for interpretation.

For most it is simply doing the right thing. For blow-hards (no pun intended), it is their specific dictatorial way - like Wahhabis. And of course in a mosque different leaders would have different ways they would want to encourage their attendees. Just as a Fred Nile here might say homosexuality is against God's will; conservatives in the Islamic world promote or have codified laws based off their faith. "Sharia law" isn't a definable thing. It's like saying we should be scared of the Dutch due to their culture and laws. Sharia is not an actual set of laws.

Oh, and it really should go without saying, that the 'they're breeding quicker than us' argument is used by all racists everywhere, because they don't have anything in real life to complain about so they have to borrow their kids' slippery slide to try and make it sound OH SO AWFUL.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Doesn't change the underlying response though - anyone who wants to change MY country's laws on some faith based sky fairy model can GTFO

 

[Crankyhawk]

This article articulates the concern I have with sharia law much more eloquently - with my view of "sharia" being as put in the article the "criminal sharia law practised in many muslim majority countries" which then hardline fundamentalists who are espousing sharia in australia mean.

Personal code sharia, given that it won't infringe on anyone elses secular rights, no issue.

www.theage.com.au/lifestyle/news-and-views/opinion/why-its-not-enough-to-counter-fear-of-sharia-law-by-insisting-islam-is-feminist-20170216-guec5m.html?eid=cpc:nnn-14omn2216-optim-nnnutbrain-outbrain_paid-dom-displayad-nnn-age-nnn&campaign_code=15caf002&promote_channel=sem&utm_source=outbrain&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=paid%20outbrain

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

Doesn't change the underlying response though - anyone who wants to change MY country's laws on some faith based sky fairy model can GTFO

Yes, the point is that they may dislike abortion or gay marriage or whatever obviously like other religious people, but the idea that Muslims who obey "sharia" or advocate "sharia" are advocating law change is wrong. To many Muslims "sharia" isn't "sharia law" and "sharia law" is not a set of laws. It's just convenient for the Islamophobes that actual laws overseas are called sharia law, so they muddy the water.

 

[Present Not Past]

Doesn't change the underlying response though - anyone who wants to change MY country's laws on some faith based sky fairy model can GTFO

Australians have already voted into Parliament some pretty crazy people. I can only see it getting worse.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Yes, the point is that they may dislike abortion or gay marriage or whatever obviously like other religious people, but the idea that Muslims who obey "sharia" or advocate "sharia" are advocating law change is wrong. To many Muslims "sharia" isn't "sharia law" and "sharia law" is not a set of laws. It's just convenient for the Islamophobes that actual laws overseas are called sharia law, so they muddy the water.

Ah but there are some fundamentalist type who want to bring the criminal sharia to Australia. Unfortunately the moderate Muslims are not loud enough to denounce these wackjobs

 

[Present Not Past]

Ah but there are some fundamentalist type who want to bring the criminal sharia to Australia. Unfortunately the moderate Muslims are not loud enough to denounce these wackjobs

So what?
All your've done with your post is identify yourself as a racist. Well done

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

Ah but there are some fundamentalist type who want to bring the criminal sharia to Australia. Unfortunately the moderate Muslims are not loud enough to denounce these wackjobs

That doesn't even make sense. Why would you have to be loud to denounce someone? You would know full well that there is plenty of denouncing. So you're just baiting.

 

[Chief]

Ah but there are some fundamentalist type who want to bring the criminal sharia to Australia. Unfortunately the moderate Muslims are not loud enough to denounce these wackjobs

There are some fundamentalist types that want to criminalise abortion and homosexuality.

But there are plenty of moderates and reformers speaking out, advancing ideas and working at reform.

We need to support moderates in all religions: they're our best chance at getting the cults out of public life.

Accusing all religionists of being fundies, and treating them as such, or berating them for not speaking up, is the surest way to create more fundies.

You should be annoyed at the media for not highlighting the reformers who do speak up.

Rioting bigots and mouthy imams get the coverage, though.

On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Maggie5]

Yes, the point is that they may dislike abortion or gay marriage or whatever obviously like other religious people, but the idea that Muslims who obey "sharia" or advocate "sharia" are advocating law change is wrong. To many Muslims "sharia" isn't "sharia law" and "sharia law" is not a set of laws. It's just convenient for the Islamophobes that actual laws overseas are called sharia law, so they muddy the water.

What I don't understand why people can't do simple maths.
There are approximately 16.5 million eligible voters in Australia and approximately half a million people that identify as Muslims (I was unable to identify eligible voters) but lets call them all eligible.
How likely is Sharia Law ever going to be implemented?
What all this media (social) attention is doing is alienting those that aren't interested in Sharia Law.
So many more issues we should be putting our energy into that we can influence.

 

[Crankyhawk]

So what?
All your've done with your post is identify yourself as a racist. Well done

If racist = hates fundamentalist muslims who like their criminal sharia laws, then * yes I am.
Can you be honest with yourself and acknowledge that you also oppose others for their opinions, whether it hypothetically is people who want to see abortion outlawed, bringing back death penalties, support the catholic churches' efforts to protect pedophile priests?? Can you truly say that you opose no one else's opinions?

 

[Crankyhawk]

There are some fundamentalist types that want to criminalise abortion and homosexuality.

But there are plenty of moderates and reformers speaking out, advancing ideas and working at reform.

We need to support moderates in all religions: they're our best chance at getting the cults out of public life.

Accusing all religionists of being fundies, and treating them as such, or berating them for not speaking up, is the surest way to create more fundies.

You should be annoyed at the media for not highlighting the reformers who do speak up.

Rioting bigots and mouthy imams get the coverage, though.

On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Yes, this is a good point. I had thought that I was clear that I am pro moderates and wish they would speak up against their fundamentalists.

 

[Crankyhawk]

That doesn't even make sense. Why would you have to be loud to denounce someone? You would know full well that there is plenty of denouncing. So you're just baiting.

Have the moderate groups condemned the fundamentalists? Made them clear they aren't welcome? Because it sure as does not get coverage.

I would love it if a moderate muslim group openly mocked, ridiculed fundamentalists - think comedy skits, cartoons etc - although we've seen what happens to newspapers that do that (in France..)

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

Have the moderate groups condemned the fundamentalists? Made them clear they aren't welcome? Because it sure as does not get coverage.

I would love it if a moderate muslim group openly mocked, ridiculed fundamentalists - think comedy skits, cartoons etc - although we've seen what happens to newspapers that do that (in France..)

So you haven't even looked? After a decade of this crap, you haven't looked once? It beggars belief.

 

[Chief]

Yes, this is a good point. I had thought that I was clear that I am pro moderates and wish they would speak up against their fundamentalists.

And I thought I had made clear that they do speak up but rarely get media attention.

 

[Crankyhawk]

So you haven't even looked? After a decade of this crap, you haven't looked once? It beggars belief.

If it is there repost it! Promote it!

 

[_007_]

If it is there repost it! Promote it!

http://theconversation.com/factchec...ia-condemned-terrorist-attacks-overseas-62688

Took about 4 seconds.

 

[JoondalupJ]

She had time to think and research the topic and still didn't get it right. Duh!

She has passion and belief and emotion, she is fine saying things that people know and think then listening to agenda dreamers bullshitting back, who completely miss the point. Or deliberately miss the point, that is what most agenda followers and politicians do, act ignorant because they are.

 

[Crankyhawk]

http://theconversation.com/factchec...ia-condemned-terrorist-attacks-overseas-62688

Took about 4 seconds.

Thanks for that, although I don't understand why we don't expect moderates to condemn every crazy act done by Islamic terrorists/ outlandish statements by fundamentalist (my addition). I would be wanting to publicly and repeatedly distance myself from those who are likely to be (mis)represented as showing my views.

 

[Taylor]

I am very proud that homosexuality has given something for fundamentalist Muslim men and fundamentalist Christian men to come together over.

 

[Crankyhawk]

To the list of those who should STFU add Stephanie Ross, and Ivan stratov who are letting fundamentalist Christian beliefs guide their anti abortion attitudes.

 

[_007_]

Thanks for that, although I don't understand why we don't expect moderates to condemn every crazy act done by Islamic terrorists/ outlandish statements by fundamentalist (my addition). I would be wanting to publicly and repeatedly distance myself from those who are likely to be (mis)represented as showing my views.

This is a 100% serious question. Do you expect every good Christian to publicly condemn paedophile priests or just the Pope or an Archbishop to do so on behalf of their churches?

Assuming you answer the leadership, The Grand Mufti is as senior as you get in the Australian Islamic community and he has actively condemned radical Islam and terrorism.

The real question is why isn't it common knowledge that the Islamic leaders in Australia DO condemn these acts and ideologies? I guess peace and love and whatnot makes worse news than outrage and hate??? Just my theory.

 

[Maggie5]

This is a 100% serious question. Do you expect every good Christian to publicly condemn paedophile priests or just the Pope or an Archbishop to do so on behalf of their churches?

Assuming you answer the leadership, The Grand Mufti is as senior as you get in the Australian Islamic community and he has actively condemned radical Islam and terrorism.

The real question is why isn't it common knowledge that the Islamic leaders in Australia DO condemn these acts and ideologies? I guess peace and love and whatnot makes worse news than outrage and hate??? Just my theory.

Sadly the Grand Mufti is also a bit of an idiot (even though he has spoken out on more than one occassion) but there are still plenty of community leaders that try to speak out it is just that that don't feed the narrative and don't sell papers like a Lambie or Hanson do.
But you are absolutely right about your other point.

 

[Power Raid]

"So being consistent".

What do you mean? You are off with your idea that any sort of different treatment is breaching the racial discrimination act. This is simply not true. It is not supported by the letter of the law or judicial rulings.

There have been rulings where indigenous law has been considered in the facts. One case was a murder of a women but it was reduced to manslaughter due to indigenous law.

Personally I would be horrified if a father committed an honour killing, or similar circumstances and was only charged with manslaughter because of sharia law.