Traded Jaeger O'Meara [traded to Hawthorn for pick 10 and GWS's 2017 2nd rd pick] - Part 2

[HeHateMe]

Reading back i find it hilarious that a couple of posters are posting like the expect hawks supports are being serious here on the draft board. Really??

Yeah from time to time we will pass on information but the majority of the time we wont enter into discussion with glass half empty opposition supports. Which is fair enough right?

What i found funny was those supporters trying to call out a hawks fan. Ummmm what about the Anderson and McCartin threads.... reaks of hypocrisy! LMAO

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[dlanod]

I don't think weekly updates on JOM's injury status is appropriate here. Maybe we can move on and revisit the trade in a couple of years.

 

[RUNVS]

Sorry about not using the old O'Meara trade thread but it had been locked. Yesterday though we finally found out what the actual trade for O'Meara was.

Now, I may have gotten this wrong but this is how I see it

The St Kilda trade

Hawthorn got picks 10 and 68 (2016)
Hawthorn lost pick 7 (2017) and picks 23 and 36 (2016)

The Gold Coast trade

Hawthorn got Jaeger O'Meara
Hawthorn lost pick 10 (2016) and pick 26 (2017), though 26 later went to West Coast for some reason

So the overall trade for O'Meara, from a Hawthorn point of view was

In
O'Meara,
pick 68 (2016)

Out
Pick 23 (2016)
Pick 36 (2016)
Pick 7 (2017)
Pick 26 (2017)

Or in player terms that is

In
O'Meara and (becomes complicated as it was part of the Lewis deal to Melbourne) but Hawthorn got pick 66 in that trade so we can essentially cancel that out)

So

In
O'Meara

Out
Ben Long
Josh Battle
Hunter Clark
Liam Ryan

Can anyone see any flaws in what I have just done (as I may have made mistakes) and if not, what do you think of the deal now that we have the names?

 

[RUNVS]

Think you have too much time on your hands

Well I know that already

 

[Dirty_banchez]

This will be a great thread. Looking forward to seeing some insightful discussion not clouded by emotion.

 

[gillo94]

Well I know that already

To answer your question I think St Kilda clearly win

StK are laughing right now. Hawks 2 drafts of asbsolute nothing. Tom Mitchell has been fantastic. Unknowns with Josh Battle and Ben Long but Hunter Clark looks like a gun

 

[Jordie_tackles]

Would still trade it all for omeara

 

[freo_leo29]

Well Liam Ryan could and should have been a rookie last year, projects were the point of rookie lists.

Thats atleast 1/4 of the trade that worked in Hawks favour, the other 3/4 time will tell

 

[Slysh]

To answer your question I think St Kilda clearly win

StK are laughing right now. Hawks 2 drafts of asbsolute nothing. Tom Mitchell has been fantastic. Unknowns with Josh Battle and Ben Long but Hunter Clark looks like a gun

To be fair you say 2 drafts of absolute nothing when you are basing that off where people were drafted. Cousins and Morrison had very very good seasons at Box Hill and Cousins looked pretty good at AFL level until his season was cut short due to injury. Morrison made his debut against the dogs in round 23 and was very very impressive (the game was not played at the highest intensity i will admit).

We also walked away from last nights draft with a lot of people saying we did very well with what we had. Now i don't think we walked away with the best player in the draft or anything, but if Worpel and Moore can become even decent AFL players then we have done very well for ourselves. We also still have Ollie Hanrahan from last seasons draft and Jackson Ross who have probably the most upside of our draftees just with a bit more doubt over whether they will reach it or not.

No doubt St.Kilda will be over the moon with the trade, they knew how badly we wanted O'meara and they benefited from it. I think both clubs will end up walking away from this trade very happy, they both got what they wanted and that is how you trade. It isn't about trying to 'win' a trade, it's about doing what's best for the club.

 

[Furn2]

Still only 1 good pick given up. It looks like a lot on paper but considering that 3 out fo 4 players in the 20-40 region don't even play 100 games and only 1 in 10 becomes a 200 gamer those others picks are pretty speculative.

 

[gillo94]

To be fair you say 2 drafts of absolute nothing when you are basing that off where people were drafted. Cousins and Morrison had very very good seasons at Box Hill and Cousins looked pretty good at AFL level until his season was cut short due to injury. Morrison made his debut against the dogs in round 23 and was very very impressive (the game was not played at the highest intensity i will admit).

We also walked away from last nights draft with a lot of people saying we did very well with what we had. Now i don't think we walked away with the best player in the draft or anything, but if Worpel and Moore can become even decent AFL players then we have done very well for ourselves. We also still have Ollie Hanrahan from last seasons draft and Jackson Ross who have probably the most upside of our draftees just with a bit more doubt over whether they will reach it or not.

No doubt St.Kilda will be over the moon with the trade, they knew how badly we wanted O'meara and they benefited from it. I think both clubs will end up walking away from this trade very happy, they both got what they wanted and that is how you trade. It isn't about trying to 'win' a trade, it's about doing what's best for the club.

I did say Tom Mitchell has been exceptional.
Think he has lifted since arriving at Hawks

But you can’t say Hawks have had 2 great drafts when you first pick last year came in the 80’s and first pick this year late Second Rd at the expense of bringing in JOM. If he becomes the star that his expected to become then yes will be worth it of course.

Will he? My opinion which doesnt count for much is no. JOM track record with injuries is very bad and only reason I’m basing my judgement on is I don’t think his body can stand up ever again for him to become a great player but I hope I’m wrong.

St Kilda recruits all have big question makes too? Can any of them become great players? They might in my opinion. Sure helps they have come to the club healthy of course. I’d rather be StK recruiting team now than Hawks

 

[Slysh]

I did say Tom Mitchell has been exceptional.
Think he has lifted since arriving at Hawks

But you can’t say Hawks have had 2 great drafts when you first pick last year came in the 80’s and first pick this year late Second Rd at the expense of bringing in JOM. If he becomes the star that his expected to become then yes will be worth it of course.

Will he? My opinion which doesnt count for much is no. JOM track record with injuries is very bad and only reason I’m basing my judgement on is I don’t think his body can stand up ever again for him to become a great player but I hope I’m wrong.

St Kilda recruits all have big question makes too? Can any of them become great players? They might in my opinion. Sure helps they have come to the club healthy of course. I’d rather be StK recruiting team now than Hawks

Again though you are looking at them from a numbers perspective alone, we can't judge this years crop because we have not seen them play yet.

Last years though have shown enough to say that they could make it at AFL level. If you chucked pick 23 and pick 32 next to Cousins and Morrison people would be talking about them in a much more positive light. People are writing off last years draft because of the picks we had and not judging them on what they have shown us.

 

[Pykie]

Saints players no guarantee to be guns, but there’s 3 of them.

O’meara no guarantee to work out either, he looked bog average at times last season.

Saints well in front at this stage.

 

[RUNVS]

If Gold Coast knew Hawthorn were going to have a substandard year in 2017 this trade would have been so much easier as they would have just taken Hawthorn's second rounder in 2016 and their first rounder in 2017. It would have been a far less messy trade for all concerned as well.

 

[Buzzasto DaSilva]

Early days, but I'm backing O'Meara over the field. He will be a top 5 player.

 

[Lightsxo]

Early days, but I'm backing O'Meara over the field. He will be a top 5 player.

I agree.

O'Meara if he can get his body right looked a Brownlow medalist contender.

But the Saints gave up pick 10 and change which ended up after the academy shenanigans Jai Simpkin and we've received Ben Long, Josh Battle and Hunter Clark.

We were never in the running for O'Meara so tbh regardless we're winners. Every club would make that trade especially looking what we gave up and ended up getting.

 

[Richo83]

Hawthorn are lucky the saints' pick wasn't better, they were a few wins off giving them someone like Cerra.

St Kilda would come out a lot better if they had have drafted better. I see a lot of Lennon in Battle: a third tall forward/hff with average athleticism.

 

[RoundCubic]

Hawthorn are lucky the saints' pick wasn't better, they were a few wins off giving them someone like Cerra.

St Kilda would come out a lot better if they had have drafted better. I see a lot of Lennon in Battle: a third tall forward/hff with average athleticism.

Agree but I like Battle its Long over Fisher and Bolton that may have been a mistake

 

[Slysh]

Hawthorn are lucky the saints' pick wasn't better, they were a few wins off giving them someone like Cerra.

St Kilda would come out a lot better if they had have drafted better. I see a lot of Lennon in Battle: a third tall forward/hff with average athleticism.

We were a few wins away from finishing in the top 8 and them not getting a top 10 pick.

 

[aussierulesrules]

We were a few wins away from finishing in the top 8 and them not getting a top 10 pick.

Did you lose any close ones though? Seems as though you won pretty much all your close ones, which means you were a lot closer to having a few less wins than a few more.

 

[aussierulesrules]

St Kilda would come out a lot better if they had have drafted better. I see a lot of Lennon in Battle: a third tall forward/hff with average athleticism.

I don't reckon Battle will be a bust, if he gets a look in.

Thought he looked AFL quality when I watched him in the 2016 champs and he then played some impressive footy in various games this year, starting off with 5 goals in the vastly weaker "B-team", against basically our senior backline in the intra-club game, then some good games in VFL praccy matches and then did well enough in VFL games to get a call-up to play an AFL game.

Didn't do much in a bad loss, but then went back and played a ripper in a televised VFL game down at Geelong the following week. All while still at school.

I see him as much more likely to be of Membrey level than Lennon level. Ben's big problem is that he is in between size and has neither a tank, nor speed, whereas Josh on the other hand is 5cm taller and has elite endurance.

He'll be able to roam far and wide like say Adelaide's Tom Lynch, while also being a marking threat inside 50.

How much of a look in he gets with Bruce, Paddy and Membrey ahead of him will be a big ?, but being mentored by Riewoldt, Lloyd and Fev ought to help!

 

[Ekomaira]

We were a few wins away from finishing in the top 8 and them not getting a top 10 pick.

we were a few wins away from finishing top 8 and winning the flag

 

[WWSD]

we were a few wins away from finishing top 8 and winning the flag

St Kilda didn’t have eight of their best 22 players out injured for most the season, Hawthorn did. They still managed to win 7 out of their last 10 games to finish the season and have much better young players under 22 then many people would’ve predicted.

 

[footyfan1978]

Sorry about not using the old O'Meara trade thread but it had been locked. Yesterday though we finally found out what the actual trade for O'Meara was.

Now, I may have gotten this wrong but this is how I see it

The St Kilda trade

Hawthorn got picks 10 and 68 (2016)
Hawthorn lost pick 7 (2017) and picks 23 and 36 (2016)

The Gold Coast trade

Hawthorn got Jaeger O'Meara
Hawthorn lost pick 10 (2016) and pick 26 (2017), though 26 later went to West Coast for some reason

So the overall trade for O'Meara, from a Hawthorn point of view was

In
O'Meara,
pick 68 (2016)

Out
Pick 23 (2016)
Pick 36 (2016)
Pick 7 (2017)
Pick 26 (2017)

Or in player terms that is

In
O'Meara and (becomes complicated as it was part of the Lewis deal to Melbourne) but Hawthorn got pick 66 in that trade so we can essentially cancel that out)

So

In
O'Meara

Out
Ben Long
Josh Battle
Hunter Clark
Liam Ryan

Can anyone see any flaws in what I have just done (as I may have made mistakes) ?

Is that you Jonny Ralph?

Sorry, yeah, bit harsh but could not help myself...

Lets have another go at this but look at the reality of what needed to get done for Hawks to get O'Meara.

Hawks in the final piece of the cascade of trades that lead to the final trade getting them O'Meara for pick 10 and their 2017 Second Round pick, originally could not trade their 2nd rounder of 2017 as they had already traded their 1st rounder of 2017 to St.Kilda to get access to pick 10.
If you look at the trade to get pick 10 it also involved trading pick 23 to St.Kilda too which originally happened by Brad Hill traded to Fremantle. So already we can see it took more than one trade to be involved to build up to getting exactly what they needed to finally get O'Meara.

But lets first go back to the final snag of getting O'Meara deal over the line. To be able to trade their 2nd rounder of 2017 to Gold Coast they needed to get access to another future round pick for 2017 of 2nd round value. Hence where that trade with Carlton came into it. Carlton had in their hands a 2nd round pick of 2017 from GWS. Hawks and Carlton worked their brains together to go Carlton give Hawks that 2nd round future pick and that allows you to trade Hawks own 2nd round future pick to Gold Coast for AFL to approve the O'Meara deal. Hawks gave Carlton 48, 66 and 70 for the 2016 draft to make it happen.

But where did pick 48, 66 and 70 come from ?

48 and 66 were part of another trade to let Melbourne have Jordan Lewis but also involved giving up pick 57 and 68 to Melbourne too.

Pick 70 to Carlton also traces back to Hawks trading Sam Mitchell to Eagles.

Hawks traded Sam Mitchell, 54 and 72 to get pick 52, 70 and 88.

Pick 52 was also involved in the trade to get Tom Mitchell. They originally gave pick 14 and 52 to get Tom Mitchell and pick 57.

Whatever way you look at it, Hawks needed a cascade of trades done before being even in a position to get O'Meara to the club. Hence some people call it selling the farm to get him as in the final washup going into 2016 draft period Hawks in essence had no picks until near the dead end of the draft and were also going to need to wait until deep in 2nd round of 2017 to get a pick in 2017 draft with the GWS future pick they got from Carlton that allowed another future round pick to Gold Coast be legal trade. It should not be overlooked though that in essence pick 14 was giving up to get Tom Mitchell and everyone would think that is a good deal for Hawks and not knock that so that also played a part in going into 2016 and 2017 drafts with no real hands to get elite new young talent.

Brad Hill, Jordan Lewis, Sam Mitchell and the majority of the picks of value for two draft periods gone to get O'Meara trade over the line. If those series of trades do not happen the O'Meara trade never gets done in final hour. That was the reality of what happened.

The alternative is to look straight at pick 10 of 2016 and pick 26 of 2017 drafts the were in the final trade to get O'Meara now we know what pick the future round pick became this year.

pick 10 in 2016 got Gold Coast Jack Bowes.
pick 26 of 2017 finally landed with Eagles and they drafted Liam Ryan with that pick.
so has the cost of getting O'Meara finally been decided in reality ?

NO!!!

Once we see how all these things play out over of a number of years will we see the final cost.

If O'Meara actually turns into the jet he once was looking to become back at Gold Coast before his injuries and Hawks get a flag down the track with him playing a pivotal role, maybe it still could turn out ok for Hawks.

 

[Richo83]

I don't reckon Battle will be a bust, if he gets a look in.

He's not overly quick, or agile, and doesn't have a good leap. Stick a defender on him with some athleticism and he'll struggle.

He's benefitted from gaining 2 cm since being drafted, but I saw him in a few VFL games and he felt like a relic. His weapon is endurance but he doesn't roam enough like Riewoldt did.

I just think it raises red flags when a KPF who teams all want grts drafted near the 40s, usually good KPFs are drafted later.