Traded Jaeger O'Meara [traded to Hawthorn for pick 10 and GWS's 2017 2nd rd pick]

[kirbatron]

I hated Hawthorn long before it's threepeat, or the JOM trade.

The fact that you can't get it through your heads that I think your list looks pathetic, not scary is slightly concerning.

And we are accused of chugging the koolaid.....

For all the nonsensical s**t we've had to read all year this is at the top.... any clued up football supporter putting hate aside would not actually think Hawthorns list is pathetic... do you actually want to have good discussion or just argue?

Pre-trade week - no way hawthorn can afford both Jom & Tom
Post trade week - we actually 'overpay' & are criticised for it.

If we start to see some reasonable/sensible discussion around hawthorn the smugness/self-of-entitlement will stop (I'd hope)

For what its worth - I'll expect Essendon to be very competitive next year, particularly early. The list/spine is very good. The question mark is how quickly the suspended players adapt. We have question marks as well. Good luck for next year.

 

[threesixpio]

So you admit, your comment was utter idiocy, and without any actual basis.

Round 1 is too far away

 

[Jade]

For all the nonsensical s**t we've had to read all year this is at the top.... any clued up football supporter putting hate aside would not actually think Hawthorns list is pathetic... do you actually want to have good discussion or just argue?

Pre-trade week - no way hawthorn can afford both Jom & Tom
Post trade week - we actually 'overpay' & are criticised for it.

If we start to see some reasonable/sensible discussion around hawthorn the smugness/self-of-entitlement will stop (I'd hope)

For what its worth - I'll expect Essendon to be very competitive next year, particularly early. The list/spine is very good. The question mark is how quickly the suspended players adapt. We have question marks as well. Good luck for next year.

I'm happy to discuss it.

I actually posted an analysis some several dozen pages back that described precisely why I thought Hawthorn was in a lot of strife re: it's list. You don't have to agree with it's content - but it was valid discussion nonetheless.

"Oooooh you're afraid of the Hawks, ooooohhhhh you fear us...."

I'm more afraid of fluffy kitties than I am of Hawthorn. Nothing to be afraid of there - to any eye that bothers to look you have a void of young talent and your elite talent (with a couple of exceptions) are likely to fall off a cliff any day now.

Looking at Hawthorn right now is like looking at your next meal.

Many a team will be lining up wondering how far when they play Hawthorn.

 

[kirbatron]

I'm happy to discuss it.

I actually posted an analysis some several dozen pages back that described precisely why I thought Hawthorn was in a lot of strife re: it's list. You don't have to agree with it's content - but it was valid discussion nonetheless.

"Oooooh you're afraid of the Hawks, ooooohhhhh you fear us...."

I'm more afraid of fluffy kitties than I am of Hawthorn. Nothing to be afraid of there - to any eye that bothers to look you have a void of young talent and your elite talent (with a couple of exceptions) are likely to fall off a cliff any day now.

Looking at Hawthorn right now is like looking at your next meal.

Many a team will be lining up wondering how far when they play Hawthorn.

Wait n see I guess.... I think we'll be mid table fwiw

 

[Dragz]

The main issue with our list is a lack of depth in Key Position players and a whole bunch of inexperienced midfielders who haven't been able to force the Mitchell/Lewis/Burgoyne/Hodge/Shiels's out and gain an extended run playing senior footy. Doesn't mean they're duds. I thought the debutants last year all looked ok in their games.

I'd suggest this year there'll be a little more "rotation" of Hodge/Burgoyne/Gibson whilst other players play more games. Depth for those guys is there, but you can't replace an A Grade Talent with untried Talent. Very Very few players come in and have immediate impacts, it takes time.

We didn't have the "Luxury" of resting half our team for a year and getting very valuable experience into a bunch of kids.

 

[Jade]

Wait n see I guess.... I think we'll be mid table fwiw

Here's the thing. This answer, I'm happy with.

I think you'll be mid table too; I'm not game to say you'll miss the eight (though I think it's possible).

What I don't get is the lack of acknowledgement that this 'could' be the wrong list strategy move. I sit here shaking my head watching Hawks fans refuse to concede that this may not work, whilst simultaneously trying to claim Essendon fans are still 'chugging the koolaid' - I mean, is the irony there not sinking in?

I don't think any reasonable argument can be made that suggests Hawthorn's youth stocks are anything but less than average - that seems to be demonstrably so, and it's also explainable because you did win three flags by keeping a senior list together for longer than most teams would.

So if your youth is sub-par, AND you've effectively abandoned the draft as a replenishment option - it is a risk. A big risk. You are attempting to refresh your list in a way that wouldn't be considered 'normal'.

Is it possible that you're just ahead of the curve, and this is the future of list management. I concede that as a possibility. Personally, I think your club is wrong. But we won't really know that for a few years.

 

[HolyRioli]

Here's the thing. This answer, I'm happy with.

I think you'll be mid table too; I'm not game to say you'll miss the eight (though I think it's possible).

What I don't get is the lack of acknowledgement that this 'could' be the wrong list strategy move. I sit here shaking my head watching Hawks fans refuse to concede that this may not work, whilst simultaneously trying to claim Essendon fans are still 'chugging the koolaid' - I mean, is the irony there not sinking in?

I don't think any reasonable argument can be made that suggests Hawthorn's youth stocks are anything but less than average - that seems to be demonstrably so, and it's also explainable because you did win three flags by keeping a senior list together for longer than most teams would.

So if your youth is sub-par, AND you've effectively abandoned the draft as a replenishment option - it is a risk. A big risk. You are attempting to refresh your list in a way that wouldn't be considered 'normal'.

Is it possible that you're just ahead of the curve, and this is the future of list management. I concede that as a possibility. Personally, I think your club is wrong. But we won't really know that for a few years.

I think the key point is that we acknowledge that it could be wrong, but we still think it is the correct list management decision.

 

[daniel23]

Here's the thing. This answer, I'm happy with.

I think you'll be mid table too; I'm not game to say you'll miss the eight (though I think it's possible).

What I don't get is the lack of acknowledgement that this 'could' be the wrong list strategy move. I sit here shaking my head watching Hawks fans refuse to concede that this may not work, whilst simultaneously trying to claim Essendon fans are still 'chugging the koolaid' - I mean, is the irony there not sinking in?

I don't think any reasonable argument can be made that suggests Hawthorn's youth stocks are anything but less than average - that seems to be demonstrably so, and it's also explainable because you did win three flags by keeping a senior list together for longer than most teams would.

So if your youth is sub-par, AND you've effectively abandoned the draft as a replenishment option - it is a risk. A big risk. You are attempting to refresh your list in a way that wouldn't be considered 'normal'.

Is it possible that you're just ahead of the curve, and this is the future of list management. I concede that as a possibility. Personally, I think your club is wrong. But we won't really know that for a few years.

I think many will say it's not the wrong list strategy because they feel chances of picking up two players from this draft and a first rounder next year which have the quality of Mitchell and Omeara would be Slim.

It's always going to be hard to regenerate your list when you don't have access to top 10 picks but I feel our youth is not as bad as some make out. It just may be a case of them not seeing enough senior minutes for people to base an opinion on them therefore saying they are no good. The club must think that to because there is no way they would do that trade with stkilda (Even though it still was crazy) if next year was going to be a rebuild year.

Three names I think can become very high level players are Burton, Sicily and Howe
If just those 3 names do go onto become very good players along with our core group of 28 and under of Stratton,smith,shiels, bruest, gunston, Mitchell,omeara,rioli ,plus potentially a 2017 free agent I don't see how a team like that could not remain competitive.

Look forward to finding out though.

 

[threesixpio]

I'm happy to discuss it.

I actually posted an analysis some several dozen pages back that described precisely why I thought Hawthorn was in a lot of strife re: it's list. You don't have to agree with it's content - but it was valid discussion nonetheless.

"Oooooh you're afraid of the Hawks, ooooohhhhh you fear us...."

I'm more afraid of fluffy kitties than I am of Hawthorn. Nothing to be afraid of there - to any eye that bothers to look you have a void of young talent and your elite talent (with a couple of exceptions) are likely to fall off a cliff any day now.

Looking at Hawthorn right now is like looking at your next meal.

Many a team will be lining up wondering how far when they play Hawthorn.

Will just have to splash some cash on free agents in 2017 I spose!

Interesting year to see whether Langford (Haw), O'Rourke, Brand etc make it. If they don't your argument may have more merit

 

[HeHateMe]

"Hawthorn's youth stocks are anything but less than average"
I dont understand this. i mean a few years ago it was very relevant but not so much any more.

"your youth is sub-par"
so whats par, mid competition, say 9th in the comp. sup par being below that.
to put this theory to test ill compare hawks youth to a team that should be at least be "par".

Hawthorn Vs Essendon. "Battle of PAR & YOUTH"

19 Yr, 1997 - Burton , Lovell, Stewart, Hardwick, Parish, Francis, Redmen, Eades
20 Yr, 1996 - Pittonet, Miles, Langford, Leverde, Morgan
21 Yr, 1995 - Hartang, Sicily, Howe, Heatherley, Willsmore, Webster, Z.Merrett, Fantasia
22 Yr, 1994 - O'Meara, Brand, O'Brien, O'Rourke, Daniher, Gleeson, Ashby
23 Yr, 1993 - T.Mitchell, Hartley, J.Merrett, Edwards, Michael.

Total: Haw - 17 Players, Ess - 16 Players

Quality (Proven): T.Mitchell, O'Meara, Burton , Sicily, Daniher, Z.Merrett, Fantasia, Parish
Quality (Potential): Lovell, Howe, O'Brien, Francis, Leverde
Serviceable: Brand, O'Rourke, Hartang, Pittonet, Gleeson, Hartley, Langford, J.Merrett
Rest: Heatherley, Willsmore, Webster, Miles, Stewart, Hardwick, Edwards, Michael, Ashby, Morgan, Redmen, Eades.

Haw: 4, 3, 4, 6
Ess: 4, 2, 4, 6

IMO, Jade

 

[LukeHodge15]

"Hawthorn's youth stocks are anything but less than average"
I dont understand this. i mean a few years ago it was very relevant but not so much any more.

"your youth is sub-par"
so whats par, mid competition, say 9th in the comp. sup par being bellow that.
to put this theory to test ill compare hawks youth to a team that should be at least be "par".

Hawthorn Vs Essendon. "Battle of PAR & YOUTH"

19 Yr, 1997 - Burton , Lovell, Stewart, Hardwick, Parish, Francis, Redmen, Eades
20 Yr, 1996 - Pittonet, Miles, Langford, Leverde, Morgan
21 Yr, 1995 - Hartang, Sicily, Howe, Heatherley, Willsmore, Webster, Z.Merrett, Fantasia
22 Yr, 1994 - O'Meara, Brand, O'Brien, O'Rourke, Daniher, Gleeson, Ashby
23 Yr, 1993 - T.Mitchell, Hartley, J.Merrett, Edwards, Michael.

Total: Haw - 17 Players, Ess - 16 Players

Quality (Proven): T.Mitchell, O'Meara, Burton , Sicily, Daniher, Z.Merrett, Fantasia, Parish
Quality (Potential): Lovell, Howe, O'Brien, Francis, Leverde
Serviceable: Brand, O'Rourke, Hartang, Pittonet, Gleeson, Hartley, Langford, J.Merrett
Rest: Heatherley, Willsmore, Webster, Miles, Stewart, Hardwick, Edwards, Michael, Ashby, Morgan, Redmen, Eades.

Haw: 4, 3, 4, 6
Ess: 4, 2, 4, 6

IMO, Jade

This post goes ******* BANG!!!!!!

 

[My name geoff]

I think many will say it's not the wrong list strategy because they feel chances of picking up two players from this draft and a first rounder next year which have the quality of Mitchell and Omeara would be Slim.

It's always going to be hard to regenerate your list when you don't have access to top 10 picks but I feel our youth is not as bad as some make out. It just may be a case of them not seeing enough senior minutes for people to base an opinion on them therefore saying they are no good. The club must think that to because there is no way they would do that trade with stkilda (Even though it still was crazy) if next year was going to be a rebuild year.

Three names I think can become very high level players are Burton, Sicily and Howe
If just those 3 names do go onto become very good players along with our core group of 28 and under of Stratton,smith,shiels, bruest, gunston, Mitchell,omeara,rioli ,plus potentially a 2017 free agent I don't see how a team like that could not remain competitive.

Look forward to finding out though.

The problem is that whilst the likes of bruest, gunston, smith and Stratton are all great players, they are likely no longer elite standard once the core players of Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis, Burgoyne, puopolo, roughead, Gibson are gone.

From that list there are some real question marks going into 2017 and I'm not sure mitchell and JOM are going to be enough to bridge the gap.

The only youngster I see coming through with elite potential is Burton. The Hawks are going to be battling it out with the bottom 8 sides trying to scrape in I feel.

 

[Jade]

"Hawthorn's youth stocks are anything but less than average"
I dont understand this. i mean a few years ago it was very relevant but not so much any more.

"your youth is sub-par"
so whats par, mid competition, say 9th in the comp. sup par being bellow that.
to put this theory to test ill compare hawks youth to a team that should be at least be "par".

Hawthorn Vs Essendon. "Battle of PAR & YOUTH"

19 Yr, 1997 - Burton , Lovell, Stewart, Hardwick, Parish, Francis, Redmen, Eades
20 Yr, 1996 - Pittonet, Miles, Langford, Leverde, Morgan
21 Yr, 1995 - Hartang, Sicily, Howe, Heatherley, Willsmore, Webster, Z.Merrett, Fantasia
22 Yr, 1994 - O'Meara, Brand, O'Brien, O'Rourke, Daniher, Gleeson, Ashby
23 Yr, 1993 - T.Mitchell, Hartley, J.Merrett, Edwards, Michael.

Total: Haw - 17 Players, Ess - 16 Players

Quality (Proven): T.Mitchell, O'Meara, Burton , Sicily, Daniher, Z.Merrett, Fantasia, Parish
Quality (Potential): Lovell, Howe, O'Brien, Francis, Leverde
Serviceable: Brand, O'Rourke, Hartang, Pittonet, Gleeson, Hartley, Langford, J.Merrett
Rest: Heatherley, Willsmore, Webster, Miles, Stewart, Hardwick, Edwards, Michael, Ashby, Morgan, Redmen, Eades.

Haw: 4, 3, 4, 6
Ess: 4, 2, 4, 6

IMO, Jade

Why is Burton proven?

Kid has played four games and none of them have been super impressive.

If you took that measuring stick and applied it to Francis he'd be a superstar.

And Langford is going to be a very, VERY good player.

Hartley isn't servicable, he's a good player. Will likely allow us to play Hooker forward next year.

Edwards, Michael, Ashby aren't on our list anymore.

I see what you have done here, and it's your opinion and that's fine.

 

[Jade]

This post goes ******* BANG!!!!!!

Yeah except it's made a few errors, as above.

 

[HeHateMe]

Why is Burton proven?

Kid has played four games and none of them have been super impressive.

If you took that measuring stick and applied it to Francis he'd be a superstar.

And Langford is going to be a very, VERY good player.

Hartley isn't servicable, he's a good player. Will likely allow us to play Hooker forward next year.

Edwards, Michael, Ashby aren't on our list anymore.

I see what you have done here, and it's your opinion and that's fine.

Burton is proven. The kid is best 18 right now and that was without a preseason.

I knew you would mention Langford and Hartley!
But i was equally as harsh on Hartung and Brand.

although you can clearly see why comments like "Hawthorn's youth stocks are anything but less than average" & "your youth is sub-par" can quickly come back to bite you over the next year.

 

[Burtman]

Burton is proven. The kid is best 18 right now and that was without a preseason.

I knew you would mention Langford and Hartley!
But i was equally as harsh on Hartung and Brand.

although you can clearly see why comments like "Hawthorn's youth stocks are anything but less than average" & "your youth is sub-par" can quickly come back to bite you over the next year.

Hartung is more than serviceable, the only reason he hasn't had a chance to shine is because he's been stuck behind hill, I reckon this year he'll break out. Gotta remember the kids only 21 and has 50 games under his belt. That doesn't happen too often at hawthorn

 

[daniel23]

Why is Burton proven?

Kid has played four games and none of them have been super impressive.

If you took that measuring stick and applied it to Francis he'd be a superstar.

And Langford is going to be a very, VERY good player.

Hartley isn't servicable, he's a good player. Will likely allow us to play Hooker forward next year.

Edwards, Michael, Ashby aren't on our list anymore.

I see what you have done here, and it's your opinion and that's fine.

He isn't proven but the fact he didn't play for 2 years with very little preseason and managed to make the team for the geelong game shows the club rates him highly

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

"Hawthorn's list looks pathetic"

Did lol.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Jade proving once & for all, he knows nothing about Hawthorn's list:

Fear leads to anger (3peaters + free kick hawthorn). Anger leads to hate (JOM). Hate leads to suffering (Jade).

Quoted for the LOL'S.

 

[daniel23]

The problem is that whilst the likes of bruest, gunston, smith and Stratton are all great players, they are likely no longer elite standard once the core players of Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis, Burgoyne, puopolo, roughead, Gibson are gone.

From that list there are some real question marks going into 2017 and I'm not sure mitchell and JOM are going to be enough to bridge the gap.

The only youngster I see coming through with elite potential is Burton. The Hawks are going to be battling it out with the bottom 8 sides trying to scrape in I feel.

They are if they take there game up another notch but you never know. Hawks have been challenged for a couple years with all veterans missing large chunks minus Burgoyne and they still managed to win.

 

[Jab]

The trade that broke BigFooty. Continue the discussion here.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...-10-and-gwss-2017-2nd-rd-pick-part-2.1150787/