Oppo Camp Jaidyn Stephenson (Traded to Nth Melb. 2020)

[Jasper84]

Elliot’s in his last 50 games. He’s not a regular and won’t be because of his body

There are options on where to play Stephenson and how to play him in the forward line. Thomas and C Brown are just duds in their roles plain and simple

Elliott's like for like replacement is Henry. We aren't going to let a 500k per year Stephenson sit in the VFL until Elliott is done. I really don't know why you keep banging on about Thomas and Brown when it's clear that they are not playing the same role as Stephenson.

 

[Rusty Beam]

100% he’d still be getting a game for us. He has the odd quiet game but is averaging 18 disposals and 1.2 goals a game... not many players in our line up doing that

He had pretty much identical production last year and kept getting dropped. He would kick his 1-2 goals early in the first quarter and disappear for the remainder of the game.

Not just as an attacking threat, but utterly and completely as part of any defensive system. You simply just can’t cop that.

So much for just not handling the Covid hub.

As I said, I’m not annoyed about his trade value with North, that’s looking pretty much bang on. I’m more annoyed we selected him at all.

But then again Hine has had more misses than hits early in the draft across his tenure, so that was probably to be expected.

 

[gouki88]

Bucks, Guy, Walsh will be long gone at Collingwood and Stephenson will have played 100games at NM and kicked 120 goals.

Stephenson inconsistent... but it’s been okay for Thomas to be. Stephenson soft... but it’s been okay for WHE. Stephensons on too much money... but Cox games based contract extension last year was okay. Stephensons a troublemaker... but De Goey is worth hanging onto.

The Stephenson trade will never stack up

I feel like you're overlooking the holistic *-up that is Stepho. He is as inconsistent as Thomas, softer than WHE, as expensive as Cox and as big an off-field troublemaker as there is in the competition. We're comparing him against the weakest attributes of those other players, and he possesses them all.

 

[jackcass]

McReery was pick 44 (we got different picks for Stephenson) and he plays deeper than Stephenson has been at NM.

Maybe if Stephenson was still at the pies he’d still be in the forward line. Why then couldn’t we have Stephenson and McCreery in that forward line? And again if he was in our forward line then he’d be an immediate upgrade on C Brown and Thomas

Stephenson wasn’t the only player of trade value and cap relief at the end of 2020. Names like Cox, WHE and Sier spring to mind.

Wish people wouldn’t just swallow the clubs narrative on him. Supporters have a right to question (and regret) why Stephenson was traded out and for less than his value

Even in 2018 and 2019 (pre-suspension) I had misgivings about Stevo. Was lambasted for expressing them. I'm not a fan of the "he'd be better in our forward line than <insert player>" line of thinking. His scoreboard impact doesn't reflect what he costs you the other way due to lost contests and poor defensive efforts for instance. I don't think we'll again see the best of Stevo until North start to play 4 competitive quarters every week.

As I've said elsewhere, I'm not disappointed in the 3 players we targeted to move on.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Wish people wouldn’t just swallow the clubs narrative on him.

We see a window into a players output, but we have NFI what we’re paying for that output. I know figures get tossed around, but we don’t know if they’re real, or if it’s just their manager tossing out inflated prices to hype their reputation and spruik their services to the industry. We don’t know if it’s a player skiting to his mates over beers, and that the number he’s quoting is the hyper inflated one in year 4.

We also don’t know what players are like behind closed doors. Have you ever had a lover who from the outside everybody loves, your friends and family reckon they’re hot and awesome, but behind closed doors you find that they’re a nutcase?

Not too many of us would have a full appreciation of how a player fits within the context of the gameplan and how they fit into a the evolution of that gameplan over time,. We don’t know what the relevant age profile is projected to be over time.

We have very little idea of the medical state of players, any underlying chronic medical conditions, and what they’re carrying from week to week.

If we had any clue about any of those things, then we would have seen year’s last trade period coming.

The people who are making the calls on all this stuff do have access to this information. And they do have people looking over their shoulder who also have access to the information. And there are people (the board) who are looking over the shoulder (CEO) of the shoulder (Footy boss) of the list manager’s shoulder.

Of course they don’t know everything, and there are still big risks and they are still taking punts. If there were no risks then list sizes would be 22 instead of 44.

 

[Capital Magpie]

Even if he’s not a true midfielder and that once off 33 possession game has inflated his numbers, and he’s only a 15 touch, 2 tackle, 350metres gained player who averages 1.2 goals a game ... that’s an immediate upgrade on Thomas and C Brown output in that half forward role.

Come rd 1 2022... I reckon the new coach rather have him on the list to choose from than not

Your post ignores the fact that if we had kept Stepho we would have had to rid ourselves of another player on 500K? to ease our burgeoning salary cap. Stepho was a good choice to jettison because he hasnt been replaced by Thomas but by a very promising small forward we were able to pick up in the draft, using the draft pick we got for Stepho.

 

[sr36]

I feel like you're overlooking the holistic fu**-up that is Stepho. He is as inconsistent as Thomas, softer than WHE, as expensive as Cox and as big an off-field troublemaker as there is in the competition. We're comparing him against the weakest attributes of those other players, and he possesses them all.

He's at a similar stage of his career to where Stevie J was when the Cats nearly traded him to us. Enormous talent who could still go either way

 

[jonmacTrag]

No matter what the naysayers bleat Stevo was the the player with some currency that was most easily replaced.

And so it has proved.

End of story.

 

[Billys Back]

He's at a similar stage of his career to where Stevie J was when the Cats nearly traded him to us. Enormous talent who could still go either way

I doubt it. Stevie J was hard at it. He was a smart footballer who did a lot more than simply play out wide relying on his teammates to get the ball to him. He won his fair share of 1 on 1 contests.

Stephenson has none of that in his game. He is extremely timid when it comes to physical pressure.

Stephenson is a ‘scavenger’. There’s nothing wrong with that. He will make a career out of it. But he won’t be an elite player and a pick in the 20s was probably about on the money for him. If North was to tap the market end of the year, I doubt they would even get a pick in the 20s for him.

With no defensive game, he isn’t right for most clubs at $500k pa. A team like North he is ok.

 

[AndrewShawble]

The Stephenson trade will never stack up

Like Treloar, we gave Stevo a contract that it became apparent he wasn’t worth.

When the salary cap issues started, he was a sacrifice they were prepared to make.

None of the salary cap issues make sense despite the club trying to see the whole idea of loading up for a flag run.

 

[Copeland]

I guess 185cm may have been considered "big" back then, but now it's an average size for a midfielder.

It was, remember Brereton was an elite CHF at 186cm

 

[MyManLynch]

Your post ignores the fact that if we had kept Stepho we would have had to rid ourselves of another player on 500K? to ease our burgeoning salary cap. Stepho was a good choice to jettison because he hasnt been replaced by Thomas but by a very promising small forward we were able to pick up in the draft, using the draft pick we got for Stepho.

For my info…which small forward? Henry?
We traded pick 26 for Bulldogs pick 14 as part of Treloar deal.
Apologies if already covered…haven’t read all posts.

 

[Jasper84]

He's at a similar stage of his career to where Stevie J was when the Cats nearly traded him to us. Enormous talent who could still go either way

The Stevie J comparisons are made because we don't easily recall the 99 percent who go the other way. Stevie J is the outlier.

 

[Capital Magpie]

For my info…which small forward? Henry?
We traded pick 26 for Bulldogs pick 14 as part of Treloar deal.
Apologies if already covered…haven’t read all posts.

I was actually thinking of McReery. Yes, I know that we didn't recruit him directly from the pick we got for trading Stepho, but I'm looking at our trading and recruiting holistically.

 

[Horaceg]

Like Treloar, we gave Stevo a contract that it became apparent he wasn’t worth.

When the salary cap issues started, he was a sacrifice they were prepared to make.

None of the salary cap issues make sense despite the club trying to see the whole idea of loading up for a flag run.

I would be keen to see the average over the time AT spent with us and at the end of his tenure with the Bulldogs, it wouldn't be at the 900K reported he's getting these days. We borrowed money from him, AT became the bank we owed money to and the excess we pay is what we didn't pay to squeeze the Cap dry.

I don't believe we over payed for Treloar, he was probably at the top end of his worth but he became a victim of chasing premierships and paying in part the price for the Beams deal. (FWIW, I thought the Beams deal could have been the icing at the time....very wrong yes!)

My gut says there was more to getting rid of Stevo than just he money but the money did play a part.

 

[Jasper84]

I was actually thinking of McReery. Yes, I know that we didn't recruit him directly from the pick we got for trading Stepho, but I'm looking at our trading and recruiting wholistically.

The convoluted version is we traded Stephenson for the Bulldogs 2021 second round pick. So in essence, we traded Jayden Stephenson for Nick Daicos' left calf. Maybe the right depending on where the dogs finish up.

 

[MyManLynch]

The convoluted version is we traded Stephenson for the Bulldogs 2021 second round pick. So in essence, we traded Jayden Stephenson for Nick Daicos' left calf. Maybe the right depending on where the dogs finish up.

Pick 26 also was part of the Bulldogs pick 14 deal…which netted Henry.
So you have to include Henry’s arms & left ear in the equation.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

No matter what the naysayers bleat Stevo was the the player with some currency that was most easily replaced.

And so it has proved.

End of story.

True, but if we didn’t bring Cox back late last year to hit his triggers, we wouldn’t have to pay him $600k to play VFL this year.

 

[MyManLynch]

True, but if we didn’t bring Cox back late last year to hit his triggers, we wouldn’t have to pay him $600k to play VFL this year.

Surely we are not paying Cox $600k

 

[sr36]

The Stevie J comparisons are made because we don't easily recall the 99 percent who go the other way. Stevie J is the outlier.

Both of them are also outliers because of enormous talent. Nick Davis is another I'd throw into the conversation - never really got his work ethic up, but still had a good career with a couple of amazing highs. Leon Davis also took an eternity to click.

I'd much prefer him to still be on our list because he might click. But s**t happens, we stuffed up a heap of contracts and had to shed players. Stepho was the most sheddable. The issue wasn't really trading him, it was stuffing up so many contracts - including Stepho's.

 

[Billys Back]

Surely we are not paying Cox $600k

no. I think $550k - $575k. It's so funny it almost makes you want to cry.

 

[MyManLynch]

no. I think $550k - $575k. It's so funny it almost makes you want to cry.

 

[Jasper84]

Both of them are also outliers because of enormous talent. Nick Davis is another I'd throw into the conversation - never really got his work ethic up, but still had a good career with a couple of amazing highs. Leon Davis also took an eternity to click.

I'd much prefer him to still be on our list because he might click. But sh*t happens, we stuffed up a heap of contracts and had to shed players. Stepho was the most sheddable. The issue wasn't really trading him, it was stuffing up so many contracts - including Stepho's.

I would say Hoskin-Elliott is a more recent comparison. Top 10 draft pick with exceptional talent as a medium forward. Didn't meet expectations (albeit due to injury). Considered expendable by a club with a bulging salary cap. Traded for a second round pick. Still shows glimpses of his talent but is more a role player than a star.

This career is more likely for Stephenson assuming that he keeps his off field antics in check.

 

[sr36]

I would say Hoskin-Elliott is a more recent comparison. Top 10 draft pick with exceptional talent as a medium forward. Didn't meet expectations (albeit due to injury). Considered expendable by a club with a bulging salary cap. Traded for a second round pick. Still shows glimpses of his talent but is more a role player than a star.

This career is more likely for Stephenson assuming that he keeps his off field antics in check.

I think WHE is a couple of rungs below in terms of talent. I don't think he has the same quick thinking or spacial awareness as Stepho. WHE is currently a better player though.

 

[Billys Back]

I think WHE is a couple of rungs below in terms of talent. I don't think he has the same quick thinking or spacial awareness as Stepho. WHE is currently a better player though.

WHE has always been exceptionally talented. A great mark, great skill (who can forget that chip kick over the opposition and collecting it streaming into goal), a more flexible player. I think he is more talented than Stephenson, but hasn’t come on as well as he should have.