Confirmed Jake Carlisle [traded w/ #23 and #44 for #5, #24 and Craig Bird]

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fishardansin

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You're joking aren't you?

The reason Essendon are hard to deal with isn't the end result, because Dodo ends up caving. It is the fact that each time it takes ******* ages to sort out a deal and some of the offers he puts on the table are absolutely ridiculous. Look at the Crameri deal again. Idiot was asking for our first rounder. Wouldnt budge till the end of trade week. Held us up in other deals which would have gone through if he wasnt acting like a petulant used car salesman.

Ultimately it is the hold up (and the unpleasant flow on from this) that is the issue. He is deliberately difficult to deal with in the hope of extracting a 'win' out of the other club. That whole adversarial perspective pisses people off as people arent stupid. They arent going to stand for being dudded when they arent under the barrel, yet the tossbag tries it on every single time and delays the deal almost pathologically. Like he is dealing with Fremantle circa late 1990s...
Lol
 

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cdcanman

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Absolute junk. It's to do with some bullshit stemming back to crazy Kevin's trading shenanigans. Since then Essendon has been consistently fair and easy to deal with. Name a trade that Essendon was difficult in? We were bent over in Paddy deal, Crameri went for slight unders and Gold Coast (thankfully with hindsight) were being difficult regarding Caddy.
Are you even reading these posts before responding?
I'm going to have to just repeat myself again.
I'm not arguing whether Essendon should or shouldn't have that reputation. My opinion on the matter couldn't be more irrelevant. I'm not saying the reputation is right or fair or warranted. I wouldn't know this any more than any other BigFooty poster. I'm just saying that objectively, you can't deny the reputation is reality
The reputation exists. No matter how much you argue it shouldn't, or that it's not warranted, it's not going to change the fact that it exists.
For you to hold the belief that it goes back to Kevin Sheedy's time you have to ignore all of the reporting done by today's football media about Adrian Dodoro being difficult, and have to completely invent a link to Sheedy that hasn't been reported anywhere that I have seen.
You don't need to be so creative. Just look at the evidence in front of you objectively...it's much easier
 

DapperDon

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You're joking aren't you?

The reason Essendon are hard to deal with isn't the end result, because Dodo ends up caving. It is the fact that each time it takes ******* ages to sort out a deal and some of the offers he puts on the table are absolutely ridiculous. Look at the Crameri deal again. Idiot was asking for our first rounder. Wouldnt budge till the end of trade week. Held us up in other deals which would have gone through if he wasnt acting like a petulant used car salesman.

Ultimately it is the hold up (and the unpleasant flow on from this) that is the issue. He is deliberately difficult to deal with in the hope of extracting a 'win' out of the other club. That whole adversarial perspective pisses people off as people arent stupid. They arent going to stand for being dudded when they arent under the barrel, yet the tossbag tries it on every single time and delays the deal almost pathologically. Like he is dealing with Fremantle circa late 1990s...
What deals would Dogs have made?
 
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Difference being I compared 2 young players who have huge potential, You compared someone who doesn't exist yet and a VFL player.

Ok, Casper?
Your logic being that , a player without much experience is worth more than one with experience.
According to your logic Carlisle must be more worth more than McCartin, Petracca, Brayshaw, Pickett, etc.

Then you act condescending like you have proven some point.

Lets remember that the whole reason that StKilda would supposedly trade Billings was that they didn't want to give up their first round pick. That doesn't even work by your logic ( or any other logic ).

Carlisle will be nowhere near the biggest fish in this trade period. Its possible that players like O'Meara and Aish are on the table, and make no mistake, clubs trying to do a deal for the likes of them will not be distracted by long winded Carlisle deals.

The winner in the trade will be the club prepared to walk away from the table. But if Essendon walk away from all the trades they lose completely, so anyone bargaining with them know its a bluff.
 

cdcanman

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If people want to believe Damian Barrett then all we can do is lol.

If people actually did research they'd be surprised. Go ahead and believe a communication specialist though.
Firstly, Damian Barrett hasn't gotten to where he is by accident. His mail is better than any other journalist in Footy. He breaks more stories than anybody, and it's very rare indeed that he will report anything that doesn't turn out to factual. He is far more careful and displays more integrity than most, if not all football writers. You mightn't like him owing to his opinions and reporting on your football club in recent years, you are entitled to whatever opinion you want of the man, but you should try not to let it cloud your judgement of the accuracy of his reporting. It has and continues to be first class.
Secondly, I'm not just believing Mr Barrett. Virtually every football writer who reports on footy, and the player exchange period in particular, has also reported about the reputation that Essendon have in this regard. You have to discard all of this to believe that this reputation doesn't exist.
 

DapperDon

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Firstly, Damian Barrett hasn't gotten to where he is by accident. His mail is better than any other journalist in Footy. He breaks more stories than anybody, and it's very rare indeed that he will report anything that doesn't turn out to factual. He is far more careful and displays more integrity than most, if not all football writers. You mightn't like him owing to his opinions and reporting on your football club in recent years, you are entitled to whatever opinion you want of the man, but you should try not to let it cloud your judgement of the accuracy of his reporting. It has and continues to be first class.
Secondly, I'm not just believing Mr Barrett. Virtually every football writer who reports on footy, and the player exchange period in particular, has also reported about the reputation that Essendon have in this regard. You have to discard all of this to believe that this reputation doesn't exist.
As previously mentioned. We were terrible when Sheeds was in charge. Absolutely terrible. That's where it all began. Media just lazy and continue to run with it because they get to write fun stories that get clicks.

Recently we have been fine and actually accepted unders on a few occasions. I mean we gave pick 9 to Hawks for a broken Matk Williams. Yet here we are hearing the same shit year after year. It's tiresome and completely untrue. As shown when nobody can actually pick a trade we were hard to deal with.
 

gangsta deluxe

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What deals would Dogs have made?
We will never know now.

The crux of my point, which you avoided, is that he deliberately holds up deals in an attempt to get as much as he can out of another team, even though this never works. Doing that is frustrating for list managers who would like to get deals done quickly so that they can be sure of what they have and move on to the next deal.

In essence the duplicitous cloak and dagger shit he pulls every single time, where he publically demands well more than what is acceptable and wont budge for ages, makes him hard to deal with. There is evidence of that happening each trade week. Other managers simply arent that hard to deal with because when a deal is inevitable they sew it up so they can move on to something else.

Having several pieces in play, and deals dependent on each other, requires certainty. He tries to exploit the uncertainty he makes by holding things up and other teams hate him for it. Dont believe me - read team boards, and look for people with inside knowledge (i.e. friendships) with relevant individuals in clubs. There is abundant evidence of what he does and it is very frustrating.

He is a campaigner, pure and simple.
 

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DapperDon

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We will never know now.

The crux of my point, which you avoided, is that he deliberately holds up deals in an attempt to get as much as he can out of another team, even though this never works. Doing that is frustrating for list managers who would like to get deals done quickly so that they can be sure of what they have and move on to the next deal.

In essence the duplicitous cloak and dagger shit he pulls every single time, where he publically demands well more than what is acceptable and wont budge for ages, makes him hard to deal with. There is evidence of that happening each trade week. Other managers simply arent that hard to deal with because when a deal is inevitable they sew it up so they can move on to something else.

Having several pieces in play, and deals dependent on each other, requires certainty. He tries to exploit the uncertainty he makes by holding things up and other teams hate him for it. Dont believe me - read team boards, and look for people with inside knowledge (i.e. friendships) with relevant individuals in clubs. There is abundant evidence of what he does and it is very frustrating.

He is a campaigner, pure and simple.
So in short you made it up. You said trades would have gone through. What were they?

C'mon tell us what we stopped from happening?
 

fishardansin

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We will never know now.

The crux of my point, which you avoided, is that he deliberately holds up deals in an attempt to get as much as he can out of another team, even though this never works. Doing that is frustrating for list managers who would like to get deals done quickly so that they can be sure of what they have and move on to the next deal.

In essence the duplicitous cloak and dagger shit he pulls every single time, where he publically demands well more than what is acceptable and wont budge for ages, makes him hard to deal with. There is evidence of that happening each trade week. Other managers simply arent that hard to deal with because when a deal is inevitable they sew it up so they can move on to something else.

Having several pieces in play, and deals dependent on each other, requires certainty. He tries to exploit the uncertainty he makes by holding things up and other teams hate him for it. Dont believe me - read team boards, and look for people with inside knowledge (i.e. friendships) with relevant individuals in clubs. There is abundant evidence of what he does and it is very frustrating.

He is a campaigner, pure and simple.
Lol. He should just take unders and shut up!! How many other clubs operate this way? Apart from dealing with a few recalcitrants and vultures trying to pick over or ASAGA carcass Essendon has been very good to deal with. There has even been a few deals done in the first week.

If all the opposition list managers were as big a bunch of campaigners as y'all spewing out the drivel in this board I reckon the club should get even by making Dodoro take Sheedy as a wingman. He'd just talk irrelevant shit and try and trade Matthew Egan for Ablett.

You guys want to have everyone out there offer unders and say that we should be happy with that deserve to have the whole week turned into a farce.

I think we should go through posting history and see if anyone here saying Essendon is asking for too much with Carlisle for top 10 also thought we were being difficult when we offered pick 19 and Hooker for Caddy.

The most difficult club to deal with in trade week is Port. Stevens, Ryder, Borgoyne, Gorringe .... lets see what happens with Dixon this year.
 

rumply

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Firstly, Damian Barrett hasn't gotten to where he is by accident. His mail is better than any other journalist in Footy. He breaks more stories than anybody, and it's very rare indeed that he will report anything that doesn't turn out to factual. He is far more careful and displays more integrity than most, if not all football writers. You mightn't like him owing to his opinions and reporting on your football club in recent years, you are entitled to whatever opinion you want of the man, but you should try not to let it cloud your judgement of the accuracy of his reporting. It has and continues to be first class.
Secondly, I'm not just believing Mr Barrett. Virtually every football writer who reports on footy, and the player exchange period in particular, has also reported about the reputation that Essendon have in this regard. You have to discard all of this to believe that this reputation doesn't exist.
 

cdcanman

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As previously mentioned. We were terrible when Sheeds was in charge. Absolutely terrible. That's where it all began. Media just lazy and continue to run with it because they get to write fun stories that get clicks.

Recently we have been fine and actually accepted unders on a few occasions. I mean we gave pick 9 to Hawks for a broken Matk Williams. Yet here we are hearing the same shit year after year. It's tiresome and completely untrue. As shown when nobody can actually pick a trade we were hard to deal with.
Again, I haven't read anything about this having to do with ancient history involving Kevin Sheedy. I have read and heard numerous football writers discuss what they have been told by numerous other football clubs suggesting that EFC are a nightmare to deal with.
In summary, we have:
an ancient vendetta perpetrated by the football media against EFC dating back to Kevin Sheedy's time at Essendon, submitted by a random forum poster
VS
recent reports from sources inside football clubs as reported and corroborated by numerous, reputable football writers
Hhhhhmmmmmmm....I know which one I'm leaning towards :drunk:

And for the love of god Essendon posters, I am not arguing that Essendon deserve their reputation or not. I haven't entered into this discussion, nor do I have any intention to. I have no more idea about whether the reputation is warranted than you do. Yet every response to my posts has gone into a diatribe trying to argue that the reputation isn't warranted. I'M NOT ARGUING AGAINST YOU ON THIS.

If you are even a moderately intelligent humanoid species, you can not possibly, in good conscience, argue that the reputation does not exist or is just a media concoction
 

gangsta deluxe

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So in short you made it up. You said trades would have gone through. What were they?

C'mon tell us what we stopped from happening?
So you are arguing against me with a strawman. Nice work.

My argument is the following:

Premise 1: It is difficult for a list manager to work with someone who prevents them from knowing what resources they have available in players and picks.
Premise 2: Someone who holds up straightforward and inevitable deals until the end of trade week, and makes unreasonable public demands for players prevents a list manager from knowing what resources they have available in players and picks

Conclusion 1: Someone who holds up straightforward and inevitable deals until the end of trade week, and makes unreasonable public demands for players is difficult to work with. (from premise 1 and premise 2)
Premise 3: Adrian Dodoro holds up straightforward and inevitable deals until the end of trade week, and makes unreasonable public demands for players.


Conclusion 2: Adrian Dodoro is difficult to work with(from Conclusion 1 and Premise 3)


If you wish to engage with my argument, dispute the veracity of any of the premises, the conclusions, or my inferences to arrive at them. Otherwise, you are engaging in a strawman.
 

gangsta deluxe

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Lol. He should just take unders and shut up!! How many other clubs operate this way? .
You'll note that the Bulldogs and WCE often swap players for an unders pick where one of the sides wins out clearly, in the spirit of maintaining a good relationship between our two clubs and to make trading progress smoothly in the future(i.e. Josh hill deal their way, Koby Stevens deal our way).

Works out great. Essendon don't do that with anyone and never have. Why? they are difficult to deal with.
 

Milanista28

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Your logic being that , a player without much experience is worth more than one with experience.
According to your logic Carlisle must be more worth more than McCartin, Petracca, Brayshaw, Pickett, etc.

Then you act condescending like you have proven some point.

Lets remember that the whole reason that StKilda would supposedly trade Billings was that they didn't want to give up their first round pick. That doesn't even work by your logic ( or any other logic ).

Carlisle will be nowhere near the biggest fish in this trade period. Its possible that players like O'Meara and Aish are on the table, and make no mistake, clubs trying to do a deal for the likes of them will not be distracted by long winded Carlisle deals.

The winner in the trade will be the club prepared to walk away from the table. But if Essendon walk away from all the trades they lose completely, so anyone bargaining with them know its a bluff.
My point was aimed to people completely disregarding Carlisle as a quality player, He's a fantastic asset to everyone in the league, He walks into every teams best 22 and in most cases becomes their best KPD.
 

fishardansin

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Why do players want their previous club to be compensated? If the rumours are true Carlisle isn't very impressed with Carlton suggesting to him they want him in PSD. Why?

Jake wants out of Essendon so wouldn't the future strength of Carlton, assuming that was his destination, be of more of more importance than Essendon?

I mean imagine if Judd had have said to Weagles "thanks for the memories guys but I want to win flags at Carlton, and me plus Kennedy and those draft picks will be required. I'll go PSD to them".

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 

Fozdog

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So superbrain logic from Jay Clark suggests that.
1 StKilda is not willing to trade their first draft pick this year ( pick 5 ).
2 Therefore they will be willing to trade a player who was pick 3 two years ago in a strong draft, who has played enough AFL football to suggest that we are still happy with our choice of draft pick that year.

Can someone please tell me how this makes any sense at all.

Essendon supporters, i suggest that if a complete idiot tells you something, you shouldn't believe it just because you like what you hear.
( Watch Essendon employ the coach who tells them he can win them a premiership next year ).
Welcome to our world! ( Made up Stories) We all know that it's a puff piece. No where has EFC said they will ask for Billings.
That being said, it is funny seeing someone else get all defensive.
 
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