Draft Profile Jamarra Ugle-Hagan

[Johnny Bananas]

Victorian clubs used to have NSW Scholarship programs until the AFL ran all of the AFL clubs out of NSW with the invention of the Northern Academies.

Okay. Since I'm not familiar with it, could you tell me what ongoing development those clubs did through the program, and how it benefited the game in NSW? Melbourne clubs recruited Dunstall and Crosisca and made them into stars, but I don't think that really did much for the game in Queensland until the Lions did the same with Voss and Akermanis.

the AFL then realises its not fair allowing 4 clubs free access to talent meanwhile the other 14 have no access

The other 14 have plenty of talented youngsters they can recruit without the fear of a go home factor, who play in junior competitions that are at a high standard. The Northern clubs don't. It makes sense for them to train the best local talent more intensively to increase their chances of making it to the top, while getting as many players as possible without a go home factor, to assist them in not turning into Brisbane between 2009-2016. And that period was despite having an academy.

so they create the NGA's as a way for us to have our own versions and to help encourage Immigrants who would normally not play football to play

This is total rubbish. That's what Auskick is for, and it can be expanded if necessary to get more immigrant families into the game. How much does mere encouragement to play the state's dominant code have to do with producing elite talent for the senior level? In the Northern academies it's about taking players like Heeney who were going to play rugby because it was the dominant code in the state, and redirecting them to our game. In the AFL heartland, I doubt there was any major risk for most of them to go to rugby. I can count on one hand the number of players that Victoria has produced in professional rugby league, most of them being from either England or NZ and therefore ineligible for an NGA anyway.

and to help Indigenous pathways to the AFL

This is an issue to do with the marginalisation of Aboriginal people in society and wealth, nothing to do with the spread of the game to otherwise disinterested communities or helping clubs with a serious go home factor.

This is precisely the sort of program that should be run by a centralised AFL centre of excellence rather than giving a handout to clubs that are already privileged. Why do the Bulldogs deserve preferential access to Ugle-Hagan when they're able to attract several players from the go home factor? Why does Fremantle deserve preferential access to Liam Henry when they've attracted Brad Hill, Hogan, Lobb, Conca, Hamlin, Wilson, McCarthy, Matera, Colyer and Kersten back to Perth in just the last three seasons?

this bickering to whether or not you believe your academy is just or unjust is silly, as all academies are old fashioned zoning recruitment catchment areas and they should all be ended or all be allowed imo.

If all clubs had a level playing field with recruitment and retention then I might agree with you. But they don't.

and as for hosting the GF, sydney can barely support 1 AFL team let alone host a GF

Barely? The Swans have a huge grassroots support. They got huge crowds to Stadium Australia, and people in Sydney love to turn up for big events even if they're not the greatest at week to week support. The shot in the arm it would have given AFL support in Sydney with a couple of grand finals there would have been huge.

 

[Substance]

Quite frankly the NGA’s are a farce. Have been from the beginning.

Should never have been brought in, in the first place.

If they're going to scrap them, it needs to be 2+ years out. Can't have clubs drafting and trading around who they're expecting to get through NGA, and then take the rug out from under them.

 

[briztoon]

If they're going to scrap them, it needs to be 2+ years out. Can't have clubs drafting and trading around who they're expecting to get through NGA, and then take the rug out from under them.

They can scrap or change them before the trade period. AFL commission meets grand final week.

 

[Substance]

They can scrap or change them before the trade period. AFL commission meets grand final week.

I know they can do that, but I don't think it's a good way to do it. If they think it's a mistake, then make a cutoff year about 2023 so clubs aren't screwed over.

 

[PMBangers]

I know they can do that, but I don't think it's a good way to do it. If they think it's a mistake, then make a cutoff year about 2023 so clubs aren't screwed over.

No bias from you of course, right?

 

[Mojorisin]

The Northern Academies are not the same, having specialised training to keep potential draftees from switching to NRL or other sports in non-AFL orientated states is necessary, whereas there's not much chance of that happening in most of the Vic NGA zones

So green wouldn't be playing ago if it wasn't for the academies?

 

[Peel67skin]

So green wouldn't be playing ago if it wasn't for the academies?

But they don't have father and son like Bulldog. Green get bid in top 5.

 

[Virgin Dog]

No bias from you of course, right?

Would you have a problem with the AFL removing your priority from Green? Same situation

 

[Peel67skin]

Would you have a problem with the AFL removing your priority from Green? Same situation

Well if they remove you can't do anything about it isn't it. Just not classy to press the panic button with nothing came out from AFL yet.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Would you have a problem with the AFL removing your priority from Green? Same situation

No it isn't. Green is from a Northern academy, not an NGA. They have different purposes and reasoning for their existence.

 

[Virgin Dog]

No it isn't. Green is from a Northern academy, not an NGA. They have different purposes and reasoning for their existence.

The academies are supposed to exist to support kids who otherwise wouldn't have made it to the AFL. Green would have made it into the AFL regardless of whether the academy system existed. Same situation

 

[PMBangers]

So green wouldn't be playing ago if it wasn't for the academies?

I'm not Tom so I can't say, it's previous players that have been selected that we KNOW had eyes on other sports that speak for the success of the academies, guys like McFayden, Shipley and Heeney were all playing other sports at a high level before making the decision to go for AFL, and the academies, wikth their specialised high level training and facilities, played a massive part in that.

 

[Virgin Dog]

I'm not Tom so I can't say, it's previous players that have been selected that we KNOW had eyes on other sports that speak for the success of the academies, guys like McFayden, Shipley and Heeney were all playing other sports at a high level before making the decision to go for AFL, and the academies, wikth their specialised high level training and facilities, played a massive part in that.

Heeney in particular was talented enough to make it professionally in multiple different sports. Him being part of an academy goes against the spirit of their existence. He would have made it into the AFL regardless of whether he was in an academy, all the system did was ensure he ended up at the Swans

 

[Mojorisin]

I'm not Tom so I can't say, it's previous players that have been selected that we KNOW had eyes on other sports that speak for the success of the academies, guys like McFayden, Shipley and Heeney were all playing other sports at a high level before making the decision to go for AFL, and the academies, wikth their specialised high level training and facilities, played a massive part in that.

I would make the point that alot of the nga guys wouldn't have found a pathway to the ago and now that it has come in more younger indigenous and kids from other country's will feel like they're a genuine case of making the afl and will train harder and get more invested

 

[PMBangers]

The academies are supposed to exist to support kids who otherwise wouldn't have made it to the AFL. Green would have made it into the AFL regardless of whether the academy system existed. Same situation

As I've said before that's a really basic take on the situation, and similarly to Blakey if these two didn't have the ties to existing AFL personalities like they do who knows where they would've ended up. Green has said that the GWS academy program has helped his development greatly.

Heeney in particular was talented enough to make it professionally in multiple different sports. Him being part of an academy goes against the spirit of their existence. He would have made it into the AFL regardless of whether he was in an academy, all the system did was ensure he ended up at the Swans

Did you not read what I actually said or did you choose to ignore it? I'm not questioning whether he was able to make it I'm saying he may have chosen another sport if it weren't for the Swans influence

 

[Snarls Barkley]

The Northern Academies are not the same, having specialised training to keep potential draftees from switching to NRL or other sports in non-AFL orientated states is necessary, whereas there's not much chance of that happening in most of the Vic NGA zones

I'm sure GWS did a heap of work for Hopper while he was schooling in Ballarat and playing for the Rebels

 

[Virgin Dog]

As I've said before that's a really basic take on the situation, and similarly to Blakey if these two didn't have the ties to existing AFL personalities like they do who knows where they would've ended up. Green has said that the GWS academy program has helped his development greatly.



Did you not read what I actually said or did you choose to ignore it? I'm not questioning whether he was able to make it I'm saying he may have chosen another sport if it weren't for the Swans influence

What's the problem if he did choose another sport? I don't see how that's justification for one club in particular getting dibs on arguably the best player in the country in his draft year.

You accused someone else of bringing their bias into, but sounds like you're just as guilty. The entire academy, NGA and FS system is fundamentally broken and unfair, it's silly to argue otherwise. If the Dogs lose access to Ugle-Hagan, it would be exactly the same as the AFL now deciding that Green must go into the open draft with no links to GWS

 

[PMBangers]

I would make the point that alot of the nga guys wouldn't have found a pathway to the ago and now that it has come in more younger indigenous and kids from other country's will feel like they're a genuine case of making the afl and will train harder and get more invested

Feel like you've taken my comments as if I'm against NGA's when I'm quite the opposite

 

[Mojorisin]

Heeney in particular was talented enough to make it professionally in multiple different sports. Him being part of an academy goes against the spirit of their existence. He would have made it into the AFL regardless of whether he was in an academy, all the system did was ensure he ended up at the Swans

I think the northern academies and the NGA are designed for the same reason. To bring more attention to our game. Both aren't without their faults but I think both are important going forward with how ago is evolving

 

[Johnny Bananas]

The academies are supposed to exist to support kids who otherwise wouldn't have made it to the AFL. Green would have made it into the AFL regardless of whether the academy system existed. Same situation

I don't agree that it's the sole reason for their existence. The academies have multiple purposes, such as boosting the resources going into players from outside the heartland of the game to make them more draftable, since they don't have the same level of competition to play against that heartland state kids do, which is one reason why fewer of them are drafted.

It also partially compensates teams from the north for having to worry about a go home factor with most draftees, by giving them a leg up in getting the few players who won't have a go home factor. They're a scarce resource, and for the benefit of developing the game they should at least start out in northern clubs. Akermanis and Voss did far more for growing the game in Queensland by being hometown heroes, compared to Dunstall and Crosisca.

 

[mattwa]

Naughton and jamarra going to cause nightmares for defenses

 

[Johnny Bananas]

He would have made it into the AFL regardless of whether he was in an academy, all the system did was ensure he ended up at the Swans

No he wouldn't have.

"I was the only one at my school, throughout my whole schooling, that played AFL and if it wasn't for the academy, I would be playing rugby league for sure, 100 per cent," Heeney said.

Young gun Heeney feeling at home with Swans

Sydney's Isaac Heeney has already earned the respect of his team-mates in his debut AFL season.

mobile.abc.net.au

What's the problem if he did choose another sport?

Are you seriously asking this question? Seriously? Guys like Kalyn Ponga and Tom Trbojevic, supreme athletes, played both Aussie rules and rugby league growing up, and ended up choosing rugby league, partly because the culture they were surrounded by prefers rugby league. They both would have been great additions to the game. We're lucky that Heeney didn't follow the same path.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Interesting to see certain posters make heavy use of the dislike button but aren't prepared to back up their opinions any further than that. Curious, indeed.

 

[briztoon]

I know they can do that, but I don't think it's a good way to do it. If they think it's a mistake, then make a cutoff year about 2023 so clubs aren't screwed over.

How are the Vic clubs screwed over?

They’re genuinely putting sfa into their NGA academies. Most of the kids were identified from investigating the background of of kids instead of actually going out in to the communities. And the kids came through Auskick and their local junior clubs and NAB league clubs.

They don’t receive all their training from their AFL club.

 

[briztoon]

The academies are supposed to exist to support kids who otherwise wouldn't have made it to the AFL. Green would have made it into the AFL regardless of whether the academy system existed. Same situation

Most northern academy kids would have played another sport.

Just from Brisbane.

Hipwood and MacFadyen would have stayed with cricket. Archie Smith basketball, Jack Payne athletics (he was the Australian and Ociania junior shot put champion), Connor Ballenden rugby union.

Possibly the main kid who would have played AFL is Ben Keays, because his old man was his local teams coach and his family is from Geelong originally.