Confirmed James Aish [traded to Collingwood for #26 and St Kilda's 2016 second round pick]

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Defacto

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The whole AFL is a restraint of trade. There will be signficant dealings behind the scenes between Brisbane, the AFL, the PA & Collingwood in this deal.

The AFL will rightfully ask Brisbane why you asked for a Priority Pick two weeks ago and are knocking back a potential fair and equitable trade for one of the players who has walked out.
Fair and equitable. Are you kidding?!?!?!?!
 

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Defacto

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So all outbound players wont generate picks? Do pies only have 2 picks over the next two years??? God they will struggle to trade in two players if thats the case...

Imagine what they could do if the had some 2nd rounders, 3rd rounders, picks generated from seedsman, freeman, kennedy leaving. One can only imagine...
Yes because 2nd and 3rd rounders for Aish are so desirable
 

Roylion

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But when it is happening every second year that we are down grading a top 10 pick to a pick in the 20's is not sustainable long term. We will never be competitive if this keeps occurring.
Which is pretty much Matthews' point. Unless there is a obvious win/win out of any such trade, then Matthews is saying there is little point in engaging in such a trade. He's made it clear that Brisbane are not going to continue to trade young players that are likely to result in a loss for Brisbane and a win for the other club.
 
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Did Beams say get me to Qld where my family is from?

Stop living in fantasy land.

Name me one player (with currency) who has ever said, " trade me to a Melbourne club"!
Well Mitch Clark springs to mind. Wanted to go home originally and then decided nah, Melbourne have more cash, get me to Melbourne plz.

Of course Melbourne actually worked out a decent trade.
 

Vankri

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Which is pretty much Matthews' point. Unless there is a obvious win/win out of any such trade, then Matthews is saying there is little point in engaging in such a trade. He's made it clear that Brisbane are not going to continue to trade young players that are likely to result in a loss for Brisbane and a win for the other club.
Matthews didn't say anything about win/win, he said it's Brisbane or the draft. The result of that stance is:
- Brisbane lose because they lose said player for no compensation
- Other club no.1 doesn't lose and get to keep their picks
- Other club no.2 gets a good player through the draft for free

So really it's only making things worse for Brisbane and for the individual player, neutral for the first other club and better for the other club who is likely competing with Brisbane in a rebuild stage.

Which explains why most well-run clubs actually trade their uncontracted players rather than send them to the draft.
 

Roylion

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Why does the trade have to be perfectly "fair".
Once again.

"The concept of trading is everyone wins.......trading your young players is you can't win, so therefore don't trade them. An uncontracted player, after the trade period, if they want to, can still put themselves into the normal draft."
- Leigh Matthews. October 8th 2015.

If Brisbane have the option of pick 22 or nothing and pick nothing then how on earth can they ever request for assistance from the AFL to improve their club when they deliberately hurt it themselves ?
Brisbane isn't going to accept a "loss" in any trade for James Aish, another first round DP (which was the point of applying for a priority pick in the first place. Their view is that a second round DP for James Aish is a loss.

James Aish still has the option of re-signing with the Lions after the trade period ends. If he chooses not to...he can nominate for either the National Draft or the Pre-Season Draft.
 
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Lethal's posture actually sets up both teams to save a little face, which is ultimately what both teams want.

But it requires Collingwood to come to the party with a GOOD trade offer. Not the bare minimum.

Then Brisbane fans can say "finally, we got properly compensated for a wantaway kid, unlike 2 years ago.. now players and clubs know we aren't just a feeder club."

And Pies cans say say "how awesome are we... I thought Brisso said they weren't trading him under any circumstances... onya Dekka!"

Remarkably similar to the Beams trade really. Including all the ultimately unnecessary Bigfooty consternation.
 
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Pretty sure patful asked to be traded to the Sydney area in general

Can't think of a Melbourne one off the top of my head.

I think Jansen has just said QLD, not Brisbane at this stage.

Jed Anderson hasn't nominated a club
As Sydney were banned from trading, it effectively meant one club in GWS
 

good4footy

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Which is pretty much Matthews' point. Unless there is a obvious win/win out of any such trade, then Matthews is saying there is little point in engaging in such a trade. He's made it clear that Brisbane are not going to continue to trade young players that are likely to result in a loss for Brisbane and a win for the other club.
.... by not trading it is a bigger loss for the Lions and a bigger win for the club the player actually goes to. In essence exacerbating the exact thing he does not want to happen.

I can understand it from a 'cultural perspective' for your club but not the draft fairness perspective Lethal is banging on about.
 

Roylion

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The result of that stance however is:
- Brisbane lose because they lose said player for no compensation
They consider they'll lose anyway by accepting what they consider unders.

- Other club no.1 doesn't lose and get to keep their picks, - Other club no.2 gets a good player through the draft for free
Matthews isn't really concerned about this "other club". He's concerned about his club. And he considers that entering into a trade where Brisbane lose, is much the same as the loss they will have if Aish goes to the draft. However the Lions also realise Aish can still decide to re-sign with the Lions at the end of the trade period. And that would be a win for the Lions.

Which explains why most well-run clubs actually trade their uncontracted players rather than send them to the draft.
Collingwood better get cracking in coming up with a win/win trade for Aish in that case. That's a trade where Collingwood consider they win (they get Aish) and a trade where Brisbane feels they received adequate compensation for losing Aish (U18 All Australian twice, No. 7 draft pick, 32 senior games in frost two years and a player whom they believe could be a future captain, if he remains with the Lions).
 

Roylion

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.... by not trading it is a bigger loss for the Lions and a bigger win for the club the player actually goes to. In essence exacerbating the exact thing he does not want to happen.

I can understand it from a 'cultural perspective' for your club but not the draft fairness perspective Lethal is banging on about.
I've answered this elsewhere.
 

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Roylion

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But it requires Collingwood to come to the party with a GOOD trade offer. Not the bare minimum.

Then Brisbane fans can say "finally, we got properly compensated for a wantaway kid, unlike 2 years ago.. now players and clubs know we aren't just a feeder club."
Win.

And Pies cans say say "how awesome are we... I thought Brisso said they weren't trading him under any circumstances... onya Dekka!"
Win.
 
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If aish goes into the draft because a trade can't be worked out, and let's say brisbane go to do interviews with potential draftees what if the draftees refuse to be drafted to brisbane because of this. This is just a hypothetical question so please don't blow my head off. By the way I hope a fair trade can be worked out by both parties.
 

Babylove

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Lethal's posture actually sets up both teams to save a little face, which is ultimately what both teams want.

But it requires Collingwood to come to the party with a GOOD trade offer. Not the bare minimum.

Then Brisbane fans can say "finally, we got properly compensated for a wantaway kid, unlike 2 years ago.. now players and clubs know we aren't just a feeder club."

And Pies cans say say "how awesome are we... I thought Brisso said they weren't trading him under any circumstances... onya Dekka!"

Remarkably similar to the Beams trade really. Including all the ultimately unnecessary Bigfooty consternation.
Would Pick 14 + Oxley be considered a good trade? Some of the Swans fans seem to think that if they could get a couple of early 20s selections 14 is tradable given they need points and we'll probably have a few 20s selections thanks to our own wantaway kids. And Oxley still hasn't signed as far as I am aware which may be an indicator that he is on the move himself. If Oxley isn't moving would pick 14 on it's own be acceptable.
 

Ricky90

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Lethal's posture actually sets up both teams to save a little face, which is ultimately what both teams want.

But it requires Collingwood to come to the party with a GOOD trade offer. Not the bare minimum.

Then Brisbane fans can say "finally, we got properly compensated for a wantaway kid, unlike 2 years ago.. now players and clubs know we aren't just a feeder club."

And Pies cans say say "how awesome are we... I thought Brisso said they weren't trading him under any circumstances... onya Dekka!"

Remarkably similar to the Beams trade really. Including all the ultimately unnecessary Bigfooty consternation.
That's pretty naive.

The very definition of a "GOOD trade offer" is open to interpretation and opinion. In your opinion it might be, say, pick 10. In my opinion it is two second rounders, or one second rounder and a player who wants to come to Brisbane (which you guys have openly admitted to placing a higher value on in your new and improved recruitment strategy).

So if the "GOOD trade offer" comes in the form of your opinion, the part about Lions supporters saying they were properly compensated can be true, but the part about the Collingwood supporters give Dekka their virtual high fives cannot. And vice versa if the "GOOD trade offer" comes in the form of my opinion.

It's never as straight forward as what you make out, and an esteemed poster like yourself with 50% of the websites entire posts, should know that.

The only thing that is straight forward is the juvenilities of Leigh and the rest of your club.
 

Roylion

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If aish goes into the draft because a trade can't be worked out, and let's say brisbane go to do interviews with potential draftees what if the draftees refuse to be drafted to brisbane because of this.
Then they don't play AFL football for two years.
 

Vankri

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They consider they'll lose anyway by accepting what they consider unders.



Matthews isn't really concerned about this "other club". He's concerned about his club. And he considers that entering into a trade where Brisbane lose, is much the same as the loss they will have if Aish goes to the draft. However the Lions also realise Aish can still decide to re-sign with the Lions at the end of the trade period. And that would be a win for the Lions.



Collingwood better get cracking in coming up with a win/win trade for Aish in that case. That's a trade where Collingwood consider they win (they get Aish) and a trade where Brisbane feels they received adequate compensation for losing Aish (U18 All Australian twice, No. 7 draft pick, 32 senior games in frost two years and a player whom they believe could be a future captain, if he remains with the Lions).
Except Matthews said you can't win by trading young talent so Brisbane won't trade them and send them to the draft.

Didn't talk about adequate compensation for losing a top 10 pick, you're the one talking about it but your club's position is not in line with yours.

Unless you are saying that your CEO and Matthews are just posturing to get a good deal even though trade period hasnt even started and they went completely narrow to begin with, having not even heard colligwood's offer in the first place.
 

good4footy

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I've answered this elsewhere.
Thanks for trying to answer it, but taking an action that makes the exact thing you are trying to prevent worse, makes no sense.

NB- based on the draft perspective not the cultural perspective, which at least gives the action taken some credence.
 

Kappa

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If aish goes into the draft because a trade can't be worked out, and let's say brisbane go to do interviews with potential draftees what if the draftees refuse to be drafted to brisbane because of this. This is just a hypothetical question so please don't blow my head off. By the way I hope a fair trade can be worked out by both parties.
If I was a kid about to be drafted I would tank the shit outa my Brisbane interview.
 

Roylion

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That's pretty naive.

The very definition of a "GOOD trade offer" is open to interpretation and opinion.
Of course it is. Who's to say that Collingwood's "GOOD trade offer" is in fact a "GOOD trade offer"?

In your opinion it might be, say, pick 10. In my opinion it is two second rounders, or one second rounder and a player who wants to come to Brisbane (which you guys have openly admitted to placing a higher value on in your new and improved recruitment strategy).
Then obviously if there is no agreement, there is no trade. From there a number of things could happen.

1. Brisbane receive a "GOOD trade offer" from another Melbourne based club that they would be happy to accept. They ask James Aish if he would like to be traded to that Melbourne based club. He can agree or not agree
2. James Aish re-signs with the Brisbane Lions after the conclusion of the trade period. The Lions would regard that as a win.
3. James Aish nominates for the draft.

The only thing that is straight forward is the juvenilities of Leigh and the rest of your club.
Well that's only your opinion. One I don't think the Lions will be losing any sleep over.
 

Ricky90

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If aish goes into the draft because a trade can't be worked out, and let's say brisbane go to do interviews with potential draftees what if the draftees refuse to be drafted to brisbane because of this. This is just a hypothetical question so please don't blow my head off. By the way I hope a fair trade can be worked out by both parties.
Then they don't play AFL football for two years.
This is generally true.

However, the public posturing would be very daunting to a kid going into his draft interviews. Not only might he not want to play for the Lions, but he might see very little scope for getting back to his home state after his draftee contract expires. He might see tanking his interviews (with Brisbane) a very reasonable option, not one that he particularly wants to do, but one he feels he might have to. Laverde may have done it last year and slid from a potential top five pick, to pick 19 or 20 odd to play out his boyhood dream of getting drafted by Essendon. Rumours also that Wingard did it, as did Grundy.
 

Ricky90

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Of course it is. Who's to say that Collingwood's "GOOD trade offer" is in fact a "GOOD trade offer"?



Then obviously if there is no agreement, there is no trade. From there a number of things could happen.

1. Brisbane receive a "GOOD trade offer" from another Melbourne based club that they would be happy to accept. They ask James Aish if he would like to be traded to that Melbourne based club. He can agree or not agree
2. James Aish re-signs with the Brisbane Lions after the conclusion of the trade period. The Lions would regard that as a win.
3. James Aish nominates for the draft.



Well that's only your opinion. One I don't think the Lions will be losing any sleep over.
Yep that's fair, any opinion I add would be redundant, if yours wasn't already.
 
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