Confirmed James Aish [traded to Collingwood for #26 and St Kilda's 2016 second round pick]

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Lethal's posture actually sets up both teams to save a little face, which is ultimately what both teams want.

But it requires Collingwood to come to the party with a GOOD trade offer. Not the bare minimum.

Then Brisbane fans can say "finally, we got properly compensated for a wantaway kid, unlike 2 years ago.. now players and clubs know we aren't just a feeder club."

And Pies cans say say "how awesome are we... I thought Brisso said they weren't trading him under any circumstances... onya Dekka!"

Remarkably similar to the Beams trade really. Including all the ultimately unnecessary Bigfooty consternation.
What would you consider a good trade offer?
 

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Roylion

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So you draft them and they either play for you or sit out 2 years, is that what your saying?
Clause 22.5 of the Collective Bargaining Agreement between the AFL and the AFLPA
First Year Player
(a) When a first year Player is first drafted by an AFL Club, that Player and the AFL Club shall enter into a Standard Playing Contract for a minimum term of two years except in the case of a Player who has previously been drafted as a Rookie or where the Player is over 23 years of age by 31 December in the year in which he is selected by a Club
.

The player when nominating for the draft has agreed to the following term on his nomination form.
"If selected at the Draft, I shall accept employment with the AFL club selecting me and shall enter into a contract with that club for a period of at least (2) years"
 

Bay Pie

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That is Matthews' point. Trading Aish, after two years of development and 32 senior games is a loss for Brisbane. According to Matthews even a first round draft pick is at best a 50/50 prospect. A second round draft pick is even worse. If the club is to send a message this is the year to do it.

The question is what happens if Aish doesn't see a clear pathway to get to Collingwood. Does he re-sign with Brisbane or does he risk the ND or PSD? Does he accept going to any Melbourne club via a trade. A couple of clubs such as Carlton and Hawthorn have a fair bit of trade currency in doing a deal with Brisbane. Bell, Casboult, Anderson, Whitecross and Hawthorn' late first round DP.

A package for Aish (especially from Carlton) may be enough to convince to Brisbane that there is a 'win' to be gained by trading Aish.
Let's find out what the trade offer is before going over the top.
I applaud Brisbanes decision. They are well within their rights to send him to the draft. No trading, fair enough, let's all move on to what happens after the end of trade period.

What pick do you think Aisho slides to in the National Draft ?

I'm really struggling to get an answer on this one from Brisbane supporters. Why?
 
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That's pretty naive.
Is it? All seems to be running to script so far... even Pickering is playing along.

The very definition of a "GOOD trade offer" is open to interpretation and opinion.
I think most people will know it when they see it. Anything that whiffs like the sort of undercompensation we got for the Go Home 4 (I think we can call Karnezis a nil-all draw at this point) won't cut it.
 
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What would you consider a good trade offer?
2016 first round pick would be best case scenario for mine.

It all depends how everything else players out. If Aish got us Jed Anderson and a later pick or landed us the Bell + Casboult combo, I wouldn't be too upset either. But I'm irrelevant really. What Schwab, Swann and Lethal want might be vastly different to what I want.

As someone who emotionally checked out on Aish a year ago, I'm remarkable relaxed about this one. Intrigued to see how it all plays out, but almost 100 percent stress free.

I'm already looking forward to a trade/draft period where we will likely be able to get Schache, Keays, Hipwood, Bell, Jansen and some later academy project prospects entirely without Aish... anything else is a bonus.
 
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I think most people will know it when they see it. Anything that whiffs like the sort of undercompensation we got for the Go Home 4 (I think we can call Karnezis a nil-all draw at this point) won't cut it.
I think at some point you're going to need to come to grips with the fact your not going to get adequate compensation for a bloke who has requested a trade to a specific club. Thats why the go-home-boys were/are so damaging.

You're going to get unders, how far unders is up to Brisbane. Sending him to the draft and getting nothing is absurd, Collingwood is the team you'll be getting the most from but as i previously stated, it will be unders.

Youll be extremely lucky if you get a 2nd rounder and a player
 
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Second rounder plus Oxley should be enough to get it done, native Queenslander who will automatically be best 22 plus a chance at a promising youngster
He had an okay year but who does he push out of our backline with Claye Beams, Tom Cutler and Ryan Harwood already offering plenty back there, and potentially Whitecross coming on board in the PSD? Adcock was forced out of our backline by young guys pushing through late in the season.

I'd rather you get us Casboult than send us Oxley.
 

PieLebo87

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Matthews didn't say anything about win/win, he said it's Brisbane or the draft. The result of that stance is:
- Brisbane lose because they lose said player for no compensation
- Other club no.1 doesn't lose and get to keep their picks
- Other club no.2 gets a good player through the draft for free

So really it's only making things worse for Brisbane and for the individual player, neutral for the first other club and better for the other club who is likely competing with Brisbane in a rebuild stage.

Which explains why most well-run clubs actually trade their uncontracted players rather than send them to the draft.
Pretty simple huh?

I can't believe I've been sucked into arguments with people who are defending such bizzare, and blatantly wrong logic.
 

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I'm telling you what Leigh Matthews has said about how the Lions see trading James Aish. No more no less. It's up to Collingwood to make the trade a win/win for Brisbane and Collingwood. Not a win for Collingwood and a loss for Brisbane. Otherwise, according to Matthews there will be no trade.
I'm not sure he said this at all. He said when you have to trade a young player out you can't win. So there will be no trade.

Lethal can't see any way trading Aish gives the Lions a win. There will be no win/win trade here in his eyes no matter what.

That aside I've tried this afternoon to attempt to look at Lethal's stance as impartially as I can. I think I've worked it out somewhat as when a young top pick leaves after two/three years investment even for good draft picks in return you have to start again. Hence you've wasted two years of money and development and are always taking 1 step fwd and 2 steps back which gets you nowhere.

So what's the solution? Who knows but I don't think it is a no trade policy.

- I think the appointment of the Lambert's is a good start and will be a great thing for the Lions moving forward.
- Work out the triggers for these young blokes leaving and attempt to minimise the exposure to them as best you can. I'm pissed that we are losing our pick 10 from the same draft and even after 1 want away player I am questioning the club as to why. I can only imagine the frustration of losing what 5-6 young players over a 3 year period only to see them flourish in a new environment. Get stuck into your own club to remedy this; don't blame the other clubs.
- If you lose a young guy. Target one back from another club with a similar amount of development and back your coaching, welfare and development staff to make that post a winner. ie: Jensen & Oxley would be a good start.
- Try and weed out the want away types during pre draft interviewing. If that means maybe not taking the best available at the pick (ie: Aish) then so be it. I'd prefer a keeper as opposed to a constant flight risk; and
- The obvious one is to try and build a wining culture. These issues were nowhere near as prevalent when you guys were beating us in GFs.

In saying all of the above who have you lost to the go home factor over the last 5 years after only a short time on your list? I'd be interested to have a look at what you have gained from them leaving as opposed to what you have lost. Just to analyse if it is all doom and gloom.
 

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Matthews didn't say anything about win/win
What is the point of a ballsy opening ambit threat if you immediately weaken it with the equivalent of "nah just kidding... we'll probably trade him".

Would have been the equivalent of Pert saying last year "Brisbane must deal with us by Friday 5pm or we are closing off negotiations... or whenever suits them really... we're not fussed".
 
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2016 first round pick would be best case scenario for mine.

It all depends how everything else players out. If Aish got us Jed Anderson and a later pick or landed us the Bell + Casboult combo, I wouldn't be too upset either. But I'm irrelevant really. What Schwab, Swann and Lethal want might be vastly different to what I want.

As someone who emotionally checked out on Aish a year ago, I'm remarkable relaxed about this one. Intrigued to see how it all plays out, but almost 100 percent stress free.

I'm already looking forward to a trade/draft period where we will likely be able to get Schache, Keays, Hipwood, Bell, Jansen and some later academy project prospects entirely without Aish... anything else is a bonus.
Fair enough, just thought it would be worthwhile to get a perspective on what would be an equitable trade. Can now head back to the Collingwood board and inform everyone that Lions fans aren't interested in Oxley and a second round pick. That's assuming you're aware that Oxley is from Queensland?
 

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Who does he push out of our backline with Claye Beams, Tom Cutler and Ryan Harwood already offering plenty back there, and potentially Whitecross coming on board in the PSD?

I'd rather you get us Casboult than send us Oxley.
I reckon Paparone would be his competition in the side. I keep hearing that Oxley is a great intercept mark yet at round 10 (which includes 2/3 games where Oxley has taken more than 4 marks this season), he'd taken 14 intercept marks to Paparone's 22.
 

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What pick do you think Aisho slides to in the National Draft ?

I'm really struggling to get an answer on this one from Brisbane supporters. Why?
How would we know? I'm not across (or even particularly interested) in who or what other clubs might or might not select in the draft.

Aish is a former No. 7 pick, 19 years of age with 32 senior games under his belt. Twice U18 All Australian in 2012 and 2013. Now if clubs want to take a player whose had two years experience in the system ahead of an 18 year old somewhere in the first round for a pick, then they'll do so.

Likely draft order might be:

1. Carlton (Weitering or Schache) - 3,000
2. Brisbane Lions (Schache or Weitering) - 2,517
3. Gold Coast - 2,234
4. Essendon - 2,034
5. Essendon (from St Kilda for Carlisle) - 1,878
6. Melbourne - 1,751
7. GWS (from Collingwood for Treloar) - 1,644
8. GWS - 1,551
9. Adelaide (from Geelong for Dangerfield) - 1,469
10. Port Adelaide - 1,395
11. Western Bulldogs - 1,329
12. Richmond - 1,268
13. Adelaide - 1,212
14. Sydney - 1,161
15. North Melbourne 1,112
16. Fremantle - 1,067
17. West Coast (Brisbane in possible Redden trade?) - 1,025
18. Hawthorn - 985
19. Gold Coast (comp.) - 948
20. Carlton - 912
21. Brisbane Lions - 878
22. Brisbane Lions (Leuenberger Band 3) - 845
23. Gold Coast - 815
24. Essendon - 785
25. Collingwood - 756 (from St Kilda Freeman trade)
26. Melbourne - 729
27. Collingwood - 703

If Collingwood think he'll slip through to 25 in the National Draft then all they need to do is make trade offers that they know Brisbane won't accept and take their chances. Keep 7 and take him there.
 
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Can now head back to the Collingwood board and inform everyone that Lions fans aren't interested in Oxley and a second round pick.
No, I'm only speaking for myself.

That's assuming you're aware that Oxley is from Queensland?
Very well aware, watched him go around for Redlands several times. Doesn't mean we have to take every Queenslander that comes our way, regardless of need. Our recruitment staff may have a very different opinion.
 
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I reckon Paparone would be his competition in the side. I keep hearing that Oxley is a great intercept mark yet at round 10 (which includes 2/3 games where Oxley has taken more than 4 marks this season), he'd taken 14 intercept marks to Paparone's 22.
Yeah, more than happy with the intercept marking of Paparone and Andrews.
 
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Mr.X

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Agree with Matthews on this.

Time for clubs to take a stand on guys who want to walk out when they feel like a change.

Club is always bigger than the individual
 
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"The concept of trading is everyone wins.......
- Leigh Matthews. October 8th 2015.
Yeah, and also expressed the sentiment that we can't just keep downgrading draft picks every year, intimating that if we could get quality mature best 22 in return it might be less of a backward step. People say he has been utterly explicit in the "no trading" thing but there is quite a bit there if you read between the lines too.
 

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"The concept of trading is everyone wins.......
- Leigh Matthews. October 8th 2015.
You should at least try to be honest and show the the rest of the sentence in which he says there is no winning when trading out young talent. Hence the clear stance of Brisbane or the draft from him and Swann.
 
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