Solved James Bulger Killing

[BlueE]

The father of James Bulger has lost a legal challenge to try to change a lifelong anonymity order for one of his son's killers.

Under the order, dating back to 2001, Venables and Thompson were granted lifelong anonymity and given new identities when they were released on licence.

Sir Andrew refused permission to appeal against the ruling but Mr Makin said the Bulgers may consider pursuing a challenge at the Court of Appeal.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-47400408

 

[kickazz]

Just watched Detainment, the Oscar nominated short film based on the transcripts of the police interviews.

Not easy to watch, and half the time you wonder how they ensured the mental health of the child actors involved. Pretty tough material and very convincing acting.

It was also interesting seeing the parents with them. Whilst showing love and care it was clear that the desire for truth was much more forefront in their minds than any instinct to protect, excuse or cover for their children. Such was the gravity of the crime I suppose.

The saddest part is the reenactments, and particularly the apathy of some of the adults they encountered. Apathy may be too strong a word, as they all showed concern, but none of them took the action that an adult should have taken in the circumstance.

A caption noted that some particulars of the very late stages of the interviews never made it to trial or were made public. Has this since been released?

 

[Moonwatcher]

Just watched Detainment, the Oscar nominated short film based on the transcripts of the police interviews.

Not easy to watch, and half the time you wonder how they ensured the mental health of the child actors involved. Pretty tough material and very convincing acting.

It was also interesting seeing the parents with them. Whilst showing love and care it was clear that the desire for truth was much more forefront in their minds than any instinct to protect, excuse or cover for their children. Such was the gravity of the crime I suppose.

The saddest part is the reenactments, and particularly the apathy of some of the adults they encountered. Apathy may be too strong a word, as they all showed concern, but none of them took the action that an adult should have taken in the circumstance.

A caption noted that some particulars of the very late stages of the interviews never made it to trial or were made public. Has this since been released?

Don't think I'd have it in me to watch.

 

[kickazz]

Don't think I'd have it in me to watch.

It's tough, but I should say I didn't mention there is nothing graphic in the re enactments at all. Still sad and harrowing nonetheless.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Interesting new claims that Thompson moved to Australia under his new identity.

I recall years ago rumours that one of them was living in Australia, but I had a feeling that claim was about Venables. But perhaps not as Venables has spent much of his adult life in and out of prison in the UK.

The claims, supposedly from a family member, are also that Thompson has transitioned and is living as a woman and, concerningly, that he has worked in childcare!?

I have a couple of questions… if he has moved to Australia, he would have required a visa to do so. What happens when you get a new identity? Are all your offences just wiped and the Australian immigration authorities would be none the wiser?

I’ve also read there’s a “global ban” on publishing details about Thompson and Venables’ current identities. How does this work? The UK police don’t have global jurisdiction?

 

[kickazz]

Interesting new claims that Thompson moved to Australia under his new identity.

I recall years ago rumours that one of them was living in Australia, but I had a feeling that claim was about Venables. But perhaps not as Venables has spent much of his adult life in and out of prison in the UK.

The claims, supposedly from a family member, are also that Thompson has transitioned and is living as a woman and, concerningly, that he has worked in childcare!?

I have a couple of questions… if he has moved to Australia, he would have required a visa to do so. What happens when you get a new identity? Are all your offences just wiped and the Australian immigration authorities would be none the wiser?

I’ve also read there’s a “global ban” on publishing details about Thompson and Venables’ current identities. How does this work? The UK police don’t have global jurisdiction?

As for the global ban on publishing, I'd suggest the real thing suppressing release is that genuinely, hardly anyone knows the identities.

If any journo found out, surely it would get leaked somehow in this day and age.

I'm guessing a very select few in the UK know. You would also hope that they didn't just have the new identity appear "clean" for all emigration purposes. That would be shit from them.

So if they did inform folks in Australia, who and how? Do you tell the truth, or just say, "this guy is sketchy don't give him a WWCC because reasons".

Love to know what the protocol is here.


Probably tops my list of most troubling/haunting crimes in my lifetime.

 

[Teagueeee15]

I can’t imagine one of them would be allowed to live on the other side of the world.

They were released on license for life, with the ability for it to be revoked at any time. Given those conditions, I don’t know how one of them would even be granted a passport to leave the country under their new identity.

 

[ioppolo]

MI6, like the CIA, could wipe out anyone's history and past identity without a trace I'd imagine. Issued a new passport and new birth documents and you're on your way. One could immigrate here, with the help from "officials", with the appropriate 'new' paperwork and no one in Australian customs would know any different.

It's surely been mentioned in here before but it's rumoured that one of them was actually the guy who r*ped and killed a young girl in a shopping centre toilet in Perth circa 2005/06.

 

[MisterMarcus]

Interesting new claims that Thompson moved to Australia under his new identity.

I recall years ago rumours that one of them was living in Australia, but I had a feeling that claim was about Venables. But perhaps not as Venables has spent much of his adult life in and out of prison in the UK.

The claims, supposedly from a family member, are also that Thompson has transitioned and is living as a woman and, concerningly, that he has worked in childcare!?

I have a couple of questions… if he has moved to Australia, he would have required a visa to do so. What happens when you get a new identity? Are all your offences just wiped and the Australian immigration authorities would be none the wiser?

I’ve also read there’s a “global ban” on publishing details about Thompson and Venables’ current identities. How does this work? The UK police don’t have global jurisdiction?

I remember reading conspiracy theories that Dante Arthurs - an Australian man in his early 20s who abducted and murdered an eight year old girl - was actually Thompson under his new alias. He was around the same age and had been accused of crimes in Britain in the early 2000s.

 

[faible]

MI6, like the CIA, could wipe out anyone's history and past identity without a trace I'd imagine. Issued a new passport and new birth documents and you're on your way. One could immigrate here, with the help from "officials", with the appropriate 'new' paperwork and no one in Australian customs would know any different.

It's surely been mentioned in here before but it's rumoured that one of them was actually the guy who r*ped and killed a young girl in a shopping centre toilet in Perth circa 2005/06.

Don't see why MI6 would do so in this case.

If and that's a very big if indeed, one of them was relocated to Australia, the federal authorities would know who they were. Absolutely zero reason for the UK government or police to give them a clean new identity and ship them off to Australia, it would be a disaster for them if that was found out.

Thompson seems to have kept out of trouble since being released - or just hasn't been caught.

Plenty is known publicly about Venables still, though ironically he was said to be the less likely to reoffend.

Murder of James Bulger - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Kurve]

MI6, like the CIA, could wipe out anyone's history and past identity without a trace I'd imagine. Issued a new passport and new birth documents and you're on your way. One could immigrate here, with the help from "officials", with the appropriate 'new' paperwork and no one in Australian customs would know any different.

It's surely been mentioned in here before but it's rumoured that one of them was actually the guy who r*ped and killed a young girl in a shopping centre toilet in Perth circa 2005/06.

It has been mentioned in here before and was debunked.

Pretty sure both of James' killers are still in the UK.

 

[Leon]

How long has it been since since Venables revealed his true identity to someone?

Done it multiple times now hasn’t he?

 

[Cataholic]

How long has it been since since Venables revealed his true identity to someone?

Done it multiple times now hasn’t he?

Proud of it is he?

 

[Leon]

Proud of it is he?

It’s more that he just couldn’t and can’t keep his mouth shut about his true identity.

I had a search and couldn’t find the article, but I recall reading that one time Venables was employed at a Pizza Hut (or something similar) and revealed to an employee there who he really was. And not the only time he’s done it.

From what I understand, Thompson was more or less rehabilitated, but Venables is just a waste of oxygen and a lost cause.

For mine - and sure I’m not alone here - it’s absolutely appalling that these two were released when they were 18.

I don’t mind that when initially sentenced they were sent to juvie or whatever specialist centre they got sent to - they were 10-year-olds - but once they turned 18, given what they did, they absolutely unequivocally should have done adult time.

The sentence should have been:

Until turning 18 = juvie, specialist centre.

Upon turning 18 = adult time in the big house, at least 20 years, if not more.

For what they did - mutilating and murdering a toddler - they did 5-6 years where they were mollycoddled, and then were released with new identities and worldwide protection for life.

The UK justice system failed badly in this case.

Those two didn’t get even get close to what they deserved.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

It’s more that he just couldn’t and can’t keep his mouth shut about his true identity.

I had a search and couldn’t find the article, but I recall reading that one time Venables was employed at a Pizza Hut (or something similar) and revealed to an employee there who he really was. And not the only time he’s done it.

From what I understand, Thompson was more or less rehabilitated, but Venables is just a waste of oxygen and a lost cause.

For mine - and sure I’m not alone here - it’s absolutely appalling that these two were released when they were 18.

I don’t mind that when initially sentenced they were sent to juvie or whatever specialist centre they got sent to - they were 10-year-olds - but once they turned 18, given what they did, they absolutely unequivocally should have done adult time.

The sentence should have been:

Until turning 18 = juvie, specialist centre.

Upon turning 18 = adult time in the big house, at least 20 years, if not more.

For what they did - mutilating and murdering a toddler - they did 5-6 years where they were mollycoddled, and then were released with new identities and worldwide protection for life.

The UK justice system failed badly in this case.

Those two didn’t get even get close to what they deserved.

It was totally new ground, I don't think anybody in the UK judicial system knew what to do. And I totally understand that.

Can you hold an adult responsible for something they did when they were 10 years old?

I totally see your argument, but also the contrary argument.

Ultimately it was totally untested waters and they took the approach of locking them up for the remainder of their childhoods.

On Venables yes he has had multiple "new" identities as he continually revealed his true identity to those around him. He was said to be a heavy drug user so not sure if that was part of it. Apparently his current identity is his "last chance" and he won't be given another if he compromises it himself again, as it's too expensive. But who knows if that's true.

 

[largebus]

My Dad grew up in Knowsley and his family said how parents in the area got very strict about making their kids play with only kids their age at school, even when they were much older than James Bulger was.

 

[Cataholic]

It was totally new ground, I don't think anybody in the UK judicial system knew what to do. And I totally understand that.

Can you hold an adult responsible for something they did when they were 10 years old?

I totally see your argument, but also the contrary argument.

Ultimately it was totally untested waters and they took the approach of locking them up for the remainder of their childhoods.

On Venables yes he has had multiple "new" identities as he continually revealed his true identity to those around him. He was said to be a heavy drug user so not sure if that was part of it. Apparently his current identity is his "last chance" and he won't be given another if he compromises it himself again, as it's too expensive. But who knows if that's true.

Evil is evil.

We have a belief that evil is only known to people over 18 but that isn't so.

 

[Leon]

It was totally new ground, I don't think anybody in the UK judicial system knew what to do. And I totally understand that.

Can you hold an adult responsible for something they did when they were 10 years old?

I totally see your argument, but also the contrary argument.

Ultimately it was totally untested waters and they took the approach of locking them up for the remainder of their childhoods.

On Venables yes he has had multiple "new" identities as he continually revealed his true identity to those around him. He was said to be a heavy drug user so not sure if that was part of it. Apparently his current identity is his "last chance" and he won't be given another if he compromises it himself again, as it's too expensive. But who knows if that's true.

I get that.

I still don’t think anyone can this day can comprehend two 10 year olds doing what they did.

But with regards to holding an adult responsible for what they did when they were 10.

Venables and Thompson were interviewed extensively by the cops and psychiatrists etc.

Every one of them agreed that:

a) They were old enough to understand right from wrong

b) They absolutely, 100% knew what they were doing that day.

That what they did to James Bulger wasn’t a prank that got out of hands, that they absolutely knew what they were doing.

I even recall the head investigator saying that he was convinced 100% that they went out that day to kill someone - that they were a match made in hell.

That’s why I say the way to balance both factors, their age and what they did, was juvie/specialist centre until they were 18 and then some time in the big house. Bare minimum 10 years, but I’d have given them 20 given what they did.

Essentially the message would have been this:

“As you are both 10 years old, we are not going to lock you up and throw away the key.
We’re going to house you in custody and give you education, protection and support until you are 18, in the hopes of providing you with the best chance of rehabilitation.

However, what you did was seriously, seriously wrong, and you absolutely must be punished for it. Upon turning 18, you will serve __ years in maximum security prison, with full support, protection and new identities.”

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I get that.

I still don’t think anyone can this day can comprehend two 10 year olds doing what they did.

But with regards to holding an adult responsible for what they did when they were 10.

Venables and Thompson were interviewed extensively by the cops and psychiatrists etc.

Every one of them agreed that:

a) They were old enough to understand right from wrong

b) They absolutely, 100% knew what they were doing that day.

That what they did to James Bulger wasn’t a prank that got out of hands, that they absolutely knew what they were doing.

I even recall the head investigator saying that he was convinced 100% that they went out that day to kill someone - that they were a match made in hell.

That’s why I say the way to balance both factors, their age and what they did, was juvie/specialist centre until they were 18 and then some time in the big house. Bare minimum 10 years, but I’d have given them 20 given what they did.

Essentially the message would have been this:

“As you are both 10 years old, we are not going to lock you up and throw away the key.
We’re going to house you in custody and give you education, protection and support until you are 18, in the hopes of providing you with the best chance of rehabilitation.

However, what you did was seriously, seriously wrong, and you absolutely must be punished for it. Upon turning 18, you will serve __ years in maximum security prison, with full support, protection and new identities.”

IIRC they were actually imprisoned for an indefinite period, eight years was the minimum. However they were released at the eight year point as their trial became highly criticised in legal circles. The European Court of Human Rights actually ruled they had been denied a fair trial, as they were tried in an adult court, which was unfair and unjust. Also there was a high level of political interference - typical politicians trying to use any situation to their advantage and win votes.

 

[Macca180]

It's mind blowing than anyone can do this but at ten years old.

This is bewildering.

I get maybe door knocking or throwing eggs at a house maybe graffiti.

But bludgeoning a toddler to death.

 

[Cataholic]

It's mind blowing than anyone can do this but at ten years old.

This is bewildering.

I get maybe door knocking or throwing eggs at a house maybe graffiti.

But bludgeoning a toddler to death.

Evil in a different guise is all.

 

[demondavey]

Should have both been hung when they turned 18. It’s a shame we don’t use the gallows on people like this. It’s the worst of the worst. This is a totally premeditated abduction and murder by children of 10-11. To actually want to do this, to take the time to think it and then carry it out is the worse kind of offence one can commit.

These people are not being rehabilitated. They are not or never going to become better. They’re genetically mutated and are capable of extreme violence. Much like your neo Nazi types. Ridding society of these defects at the end of a rope should have happened after juvenile detention and once they reached legal age.

 

[demondavey]

If I was the father of the little boy I’d dedicate my remaining years to finding them and then wrecking my own havoc upon them. With enough money you could buy any information you wanted.

 

[Leon]

If I was the father of the little boy I’d dedicate my remaining years to finding them and then wrecking my own havoc upon them. With enough money you could buy any information you wanted.

I remember reading that James Bulger’s mum tracked down Thompson one day after getting some anonymous information.

Said she didn’t do anything because she was paralyzed by hatred.

 

[Cataholic]

I remember reading that James Bulger’s mum tracked down Thompson one day after getting some anonymous information.

Said she didn’t do anything because she was paralyzed by hatred.

The backward thing is that if she had done something she would've been prosecuted relentlessly by the same court that has seen fit to shelter and protect evil in its purest form.