Roast James Clement deserves more respect

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#28
They had planned to make him captain.
IIRC prior to the 2007 season Bucks suggested that he may stand down as captain and that Clement would make a great replacement. Eddie was furious and Bucks remained captain and the talk at the time was that in 2008 an offer was being made again to Jonathan Brown which would have included the captaincy.
 

Saintly Viewed

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#36
One of our greatest, ever.
That’s such a fair call.
In that group of best defenders.
Certainly in last 50 years or so he’d make the team (I’d venture that.)
All time there’s a few might relegate him (players like Leach, Rumney makes it hard and even finding room for Fothergill might squeeze out a few but I digress.)



As an example:

Collingwood ~ The Best of 50 years

B. J Clement ~ G Pert ~ S Burns

HB. J Greening ~ W Picken ~ G Brown

C. W Richardson ~ N Buckley (c) ~ S Sidebottom

HF. P Carman ~ D Cloke ~ D Millane

F. P Moore ~ P McKenna ~ P Daicos

R. L Thompson ~ S Pendlebury ~ D Swan

I. B Grundy ~ D Tuddenham ~ B Price ~ A Shaw

C. L Matthews
 

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Black_White

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#37
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Clement
it was considered possible that Clement would take over the captaincy of the Collingwood side from Nathan Buckley,[2] however he announced his surprise retirement at the end of the 2007 season.[3] Later it was revealed he retired to support his wife Jeanne, who has autoimmune kidney failure.[
 

jackcass

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#38
That’s such a fair call.
In that group of best defenders.
Certainly in last 50 years or so he’d make the team (I’d venture that.)
All time there’s a few might relegate him (players like Leach, Rumney makes it hard and even finding room for Fothergill might squeeze out a few but I digress.)



As an example:

Collingwood ~ The Best of 50 years

B. J Clement ~ G Pert ~ S Burns

HB. J Greening ~ W Picken ~ G Brown

C. W Richardson ~ N Buckley (c) ~ S Sidebottom

HF. P Carman ~ D Cloke ~ D Millane

F. P Moore ~ P McKenna ~ P Daicos

R. L Thompson ~ S Pendlebury ~ D Swan

I. B Grundy ~ D Tuddenham ~ B Price ~ A Shaw

C. L Matthews
May have gone a tad early on Grundy.

Also not sure David Cloke is in the discussion either. Played some great footy but wouldn't get a game as a KPF ahead of either of the Rocca's or his young bloke.

Not sure Sidey's ahead of others either.... yet.

But it's all pretty subjective.
 

Saintly Viewed

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#39
May have gone a tad early on Grundy.

Also not sure David Cloke is in the discussion either. Played some great footy but wouldn't get a game as a KPF ahead of either of the Rocca's or his young bloke.

Not sure Sidey's ahead of others either.... yet.

But it's all pretty subjective.
That is correct, very subjective.

For what it’s worth David Cloke carried our team very much, granted much more as a ruck.
To me far superior player to, Anthony Rocca or Sav for that matter, or Travis his son.
That’s overall my view. David was a champion the others weren’t quite that good.

Like all these things it’s a question of who gets left out etc and why one goes in over another.
My team tries to balance the whole thing as closely to best 22 with a little latitude taken with some positions.
 

jackcass

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#41
That is correct, very subjective.

For what it’s worth David Cloke carried our team very much, granted much more as a ruck.
To me far superior player to, Anthony Rocca or Sav for that matter, or Travis his son.
That’s overall my view. David was a champion the others weren’t quite that good.


Like all these things it’s a question of who gets left out etc and why one goes in over another.
My team tries to balance the whole thing as closely to best 22 with a little latitude taken with some positions.
David Cloke's best footy at the Pies was played in the ruck over his first few years. Even then he wasn't getting many taps or possessions, he just threw his not inconsiderable weight around. Irrespective of that, he ain't getting a crack in the ruck ahead of Thompson or Moore (or even Grundy if it came down to it), just not in their league, so you've essentially named him as a KPF, and he's just not in the same discussion as Trav, Sav or Pebbles as a KPF. So we'll just need to agree (subjectivity aside) that your wrong and move on.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...d2=5&type=A&pid1=2219&pid2=1521&fid1=C&fid2=C

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...id2=5&type=A&pid1=2219&pid2=396&fid1=C&fid2=C

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...id2=5&type=A&pid1=2219&pid2=177&fid1=C&fid2=C
 

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#42
David Cloke's best footy at the Pies was played in the ruck over his first few years. Even then he wasn't getting many taps or possessions, he just threw his not inconsiderable weight around. Irrespective of that, he ain't getting a crack in the ruck ahead of Thompson or Moore (or even Grundy if it came down to it), just not in their league, so you've essentially named him as a KPF, and he's just not in the same discussion as Trav, Sav or Pebbles as a KPF. So we'll just need to agree (subjectivity aside) that your wrong and move on.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...d2=5&type=A&pid1=2219&pid2=1521&fid1=C&fid2=C

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...id2=5&type=A&pid1=2219&pid2=396&fid1=C&fid2=C

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...id2=5&type=A&pid1=2219&pid2=177&fid1=C&fid2=C
We can agree to disagree or you can do a Black_White post and just day you’re right and that’s that.

Either or. ;)

For what it’s worth, Anthony and Sav were good players but not particularly extra special.
Good players who sometimes played very well. But that’s their level.
Travis better than those two but just couldn’t kick straight enough. For a while there Travis was as good a contested mark as anyone going around.

David was a far better player than all of them, certainly career wise.
For what it’s worth was also a terrific on field presence and leader.
As for picking between, Travis, Anthony, Sav or David to me it’s not even close, David a gun.
Should have won the Brownlow but broke his arm. Happens.
 

Black_White

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#43
We can agree to disagree or you can do a Black_White post and just day you’re right and that’s that.

Either or. ;)

For what it’s worth, Anthony and Sav were good players but not particularly extra special.
Good players who sometimes played very well. But that’s their level.
Travis better than those two but just couldn’t kick straight enough. For a while there Travis was as good a contested mark as anyone going around.

David was a far better player than all of them, certainly career wise.
For what it’s worth was also a terrific on field presence and leader.
As for picking between, Travis, Anthony, Sav or David to me it’s not even close, David a gun.
Should have won the Brownlow but broke his arm. Happens.
What am I right about now?
Don’t even know the subject, but you’re spot on, I’m definitely right!
 

sr36

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#44
That is correct, very subjective.

For what it’s worth David Cloke carried our team very much, granted much more as a ruck.
To me far superior player to, Anthony Rocca or Sav for that matter, or Travis his son.
That’s overall my view. David was a champion the others weren’t quite that good.

Like all these things it’s a question of who gets left out etc and why one goes in over another.
My team tries to balance the whole thing as closely to best 22 with a little latitude taken with some positions.
Jeez, I reckon you've gone way over the top on D. Cloke. Was recruited as a CHF. Was a major disappointment in that role. Played some very good footy as a follower, but was regularlysmashed in ruck duels.
 

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#45
We can agree to disagree or you can do a Black_White post and just day you’re right and that’s that.

Either or. ;)

For what it’s worth, Anthony and Sav were good players but not particularly extra special.
Good players who sometimes played very well. But that’s their level.
Travis better than those two but just couldn’t kick straight enough. For a while there Travis was as good a contested mark as anyone going around.

David was a far better player than all of them, certainly career wise.
For what it’s worth was also a terrific on field presence and leader.
As for picking between, Travis, Anthony, Sav or David to me it’s not even close, David a gun.
Should have won the Brownlow but broke his arm. Happens.
I reckon Sav is sorely underrated. His goal kicking record was amazing.
 
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