James Fantasia & John Reid

RooDog

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This guys has been our recruiting since day one, he has made too many ordinary picks in the draft and too many ordinary trades to stay around at the end of this year! You dont see too many other clubs have players like Angwin, I found out why too, talking to 3 talent scouts from the AFL all not from our club, they all do background checks on players before drafting them, the crows until Angwin did not!

I personally believe that he has kept his job based on one trade, the one when we traded Groom for McLeod! Other than this he has not done enough to warrant keeping his job. Our best find in the last few years has come in the way of investing in local talent with a late pick, that man was Johncock taken at pick 68!

John Reid is hung around the club for far to long, yes he was there with Blighty when we won the premierships, but i find the man to be arrogant myself. He has to go as we need fresh faces on the match committee, he will not go though as he is a mate of Bill Sanders so he isnt exactly going to face the axe is he?

Next year we need fresh faces, maybe even some new assistant coaches too, i am a fan of Gary Ayres and sincerely hope that we keep him on as coach, if not i think he will be coaching at Glenferrie Oval!
 

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Mong

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#2
I have been thinking about this lately too. If Ayres goes who else should be replaced.

Realistically you probably can't just clean out the whole lot of them at once.

Most seem to agree that Ayres is likely to go. In that case the assistant coaching panel might also get a huge shakeup depending on who the new coach is.

I think Fantasia has been average at best and has had a fair amount of time in the job. I think replacing him should be a high priority at the end of the year, obviously after the drafts.

I my opinion of John Reid is also on the wane. Unless he is going against his philosophies for the sake of unity, he appears to be one of the major parties in our decisions to constantly use band-aid solutions time after time. He also hasn't landed us too many decent trades in his time with the last real big one, Darren Jarman, happening before his arrival. Mark Stevens was a good one but he was never a regular player before he came to us. I can't think of too many good trades since then. There are plenty of poor ones.

John Reid is also the common denominator alongside both Blight and Ayres that have continued to draft very average mature age players aswell as giving away top draft picks all too often.

Our list management while Reid has been there has not been good at all and still relies on many players who were at the club before Reid arrived.

For all the criticism that Blight and Ayres have received for their recruiting of players Reid has been there in the background. His influence in all of this can't be overlooked.


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Rorys458

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#3
Originally posted by ****
I aswell as giving away top draft picks all too often.

Not sure that this is an accurate statment

In 93 we gave away pick 17 for Tony Hall.

In 94 we gave away pick 9 and 53 for Jason McArtney

In 96 we gave away pick 9 for Kym Koster

In 99 we gave away pick 6 for Matty Clarke

In 20 we gave way pick 12 for Matthew Bode

Given that Mcartney was traded for Mark Stevens and that Koster Clarke and to a lesser extent Bode have been pretty good players for us I don't think you can be too criticical of the above other than Tony Hall although at the time we were prettty happy with that until he picked up many injuries

We have certainly drafted some oridnary players in our time though. Nash Kennett Geddes Gilligan Williams Laidlaw Logan Parker Dempsey Tongerie Cook etc etc have been shockers.

Then again we have done well with guys like Vardy Goodiwn Edwards coming in the pre-season draft

All in all a mixed bag but I think we need a new fresh approahch down there.

Its perhaps been jobs for the boys for a bit too long, though good succession planning within an organisation is also important.
 

Mong

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#4
What about our second round picks?

Edit: Sorry by top picks I wasn't just referring to out single top pick each year but our general 'higher' picks and I would include probably anything in the top 30 or so.


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Mong

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#6
Originally posted by Jars458
We have certainly drafted some oridnary players in our time though. Nash Kennett Geddes Gilligan Williams Laidlaw Logan Parker Dempsey Tongerie Cook etc etc have been shockers.

Then again we have done well with guys like Vardy Goodiwn Edwards coming in the pre-season draft

All in all a mixed bag but I think we need a new fresh approahch down there.
Every single one you've mentioned in the above quote was there before 97. That's a long time ago. To be honest I am thinking of more recent times. Reid definately wasn't around back then. Can't remember when Fantasia joined us.


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Stiffy_18

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#7
Oh yeah lets hang John Reid for everything thats going wrong with AFC:rolleyes: .

Do you guys realise that a COACH has a final say in who gets drafted.

I agree that our recruiting deprtment needs a major overhaul come the end of the year and how about spending some of that profit we make on regular basis into recruiting deprtment.

Recruiting department is the most important area in the Footy club and I think this is the area where we must invest heavily.

Personally, I think JR is doing a very good job at AFC and when the day comes that he is not involved in the club a lot of you will relaise just how much of a positive impact JR has had on AFC.

Its interesting that everyone wants to hang JR for poor results in the draft when in fact James Fantasia and the coach are responsible for this. At the end of the day a coach has a final say of who gets picked and whether we go for patch up jobs or direct our attention to bringing in more youth.
 

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#8
Originally posted by Stiffy_18
ts interesting that everyone wants to hang JR for poor results in the draft when in fact James Fantasia and the coach are responsible for this. At the end of the day a coach has a final say of who gets picked and whether we go for patch up jobs or direct our attention to bringing in more youth.
We know you love JR

Ayres Fantasia and Reid should all go along with Curran and Mickan as they are all responsible to a greater or lesser degree

In some cases they may not have done a bad job but a fresh approach should be taken if we go down the path of a new coach.

Its hard to know what Reid does or doesn't do from the outside but he seems to have a big influence.

Craig and Jarman can stay for their specialist skills. Whether Craig would stay under another coach is a seperate question.
 

Mong

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#9
Originally posted by Stiffy_18
Oh yeah lets hang John Reid for everything thats going wrong with AFC:rolleyes: .
Who's blaming him for everything?

Reidy must be one of your favourites. Is he related to Trent Hentschel or something? Untouchable. It's ok to question Ayres and Fantasia but not Reidy? :rolleyes:

Do you guys realise that a COACH has a final say in who gets drafted.
Yes. But Reid has some say. Do you think he sits at the drafting table for his good looks?

What exactly does Reid do then?

Its interesting that everyone wants to hang JR for poor results in the draft when in fact James Fantasia and the coach are responsible for this. At the end of the day a coach has a final say of who gets picked and whether we go for patch up jobs or direct our attention to bringing in more youth.
I don't see "everyone" wanting to hang JR. Two of us have questioned his performance in his very important role. Is he beyond question?

It is possible that Reidy goes against the philosophy of the coaches and I acknowledged that possibility in my post but considering how long he has been there do you really think that is the case?

You make it sound like Reid doesn't get a say in anything and has no responsibility for any on field decisions. If that's the case then what does he do?

The equivalent position at other clubs certainly have a say in these things and if Reid doesn't then what have we got him for?

I am just bringing into question the whole football operations staff at the Crows. They work as a team and they all contribute to the results. Reid is part of that.


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Stiffy_18

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#10
Originally posted by Jars458
We know you love JR
No, not really.

I think he has his flaws like any other official BUT I think he generally does a very good job and cops a lot of flak that he at times doesn't deserve.

Our recruiting has NEVER been all that great. For all his shortcomings we recruited best players when Shaw was the coach.

As I said our entire recruiting department needs a major shake up starting with our head recruiting officer. When it comes to drafting and trading Reidy doesn't have a final say. Coach has the final say as to who he wants in his squad.
 

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#11
Originally posted by ****
Who's blaming him for everything?

Reidy must be one of your favourites. Is he related to Trent Hentschel or something? Untouchable. It's ok to question Ayres and Fantasia but not Reidy? :rolleyes:
Oh please stop. You're making me laugh. I thought you had more class but I was obviously mistaken.

Yes. But Reid has some say. Do you think he sits at the drafting table for his good looks?
Please read that paragraph again. Of course he has some input but the coach has a FINAL say.

When it comes to team selection, drafting and trading its the coach who has a final say ALL THE TIME. Personally I strongly disagree with this concept when it comes to trading a drafting.

Now please tell me who had the final say on drafting Angwin when JR and a couple of others were dead set against it??????
 

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bigman

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#12
I can assure you it is often the coach. A number of years ago Adelaide picked Eugene Warrior, because the coach at the time wanted "some black magic" after the game played by Michael Long for Essendon in the 1993 Grand Final.

Please do not pass on all of the buck to the recruiting department. They can only offer names and in the end it is the coach and the match committee that decide on the way in which the club drafts. In 2002 for example there were many good names around, but we decided on capitalizing on our maturing list, by getting Carey, Begley, Torney and of course Burns. It did not produce a premiership, but it was proabably worth the risk. WE would all be laughing now if it worked and saying what Einsteins the AFC were.

We need to realise after all that we have made the semi- finals in the last two years.

Our recruiting changed direction this year after the Carey experiment clearly showed it was not going to be as successful as first thought. it looks as though we have recruited quite well - Watts, Kreuger, Hudson, Andrews and with an eye for creating a spine for the future.

Lets also not forget we recruited Jericho at number 32 in the 2003 draft with our first pick at number 32 and that we picked up Hentschell in the pre-season draft earlier that year. A good effort I would suggest.

Lets not implode like the poor teams from Victoria. We have made some errors, but it is difficult to always be right when there are so many factors at work when selecting players. We are now on the right track and looking at the long term future. Without a good spine you are knackered.
 

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#15
A bit of history...

Our first recruiters were Cornes and Kerley. Cornes, Sanders and co then hired Tim Johnson as our Recruiting Officer.

Tim often took the brunt of media/fan criticism of some of our selections, however it was clear Cornes had almost too much of a say. I mean...Jim West?

Tim stayed on board until 97 I think. I agree, Robert Shaw's selections and recruiting skills were quite sharp. helped us get Mcleod, Caven, Koster, Johnson.

It was Bill Sanders who sealed the Jarman deal, before JR started for AFC. Full credit to The Colonel.

Reid did not start work at AFC until late 1995. before then he was on 5AA and came across as God's Gift to Football. Still does.

Reid is player manager and his role in recruiting is at player trading time. It's JR who gets us some good honest players and sets up trades to procure the likes of Mark Stevens, Matt Clarke, Nathan Bassett.

He's also provided us with the likes of Schell, Fitzgerald, Downsborough.

James Fantasia handles the National Draft side of recruiting.

I think both can go, we need a fresh approach in both these areas.
 

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#16
How about we hire Robert Shaw as our Victorian based recruiting manager. The bloke was a crap coach but his judgment of young talent is top class.

Probably not going to happen since there is some history there but I for one would be pretty happy if this occured.
 

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#18
Originally posted by Stiffy_18
How about we hire Robert Shaw as our Victorian based recruiting manager. The bloke was a crap coach but his judgment of young talent is top class.

Probably not going to happen since there is some history there but I for one would be pretty happy if this occured.
You do realise Shaw is still an assistant coach at Essendon?
 

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#20
Originally posted by Jars458
We know you love JR

Ayres Fantasia and Reid should all go along with Curran and Mickan as they are all responsible to a greater or lesser degree

In some cases they may not have done a bad job but a fresh approach should be taken if we go down the path of a new coach.

Its hard to know what Reid does or doesn't do from the outside but he seems to have a big influence.

Craig and Jarman can stay for their specialist skills. Whether Craig would stay under another coach is a seperate question.
Baby out with the bath water.
 
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#22
i agree, i thought two years ago it was time james fantasia moved on.... apart from johncock i cant remember a player that has walked into our line up and fit right in. there are players that port trade because theyre not good enough for them, and i would have them at the crows in a second (Guerra for starters).
and i forget who it was that made the comment that the crows didnt do any checks on angwin..thats crap..they did do their research, and if i remember rightly, asked the AFL last year as to what their rights were if they were deliberately misled about players personalities and backgrounds when drafting them. they believe they were told blatant lies about what this kid was like, as well as the well documented fact that he can turn on his charm and say all the right things to the right people.
i for one would like to see alan stewart do some recruiting for the crows and get us some of these brilliant young players he seems to find for the power!
 
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#23
furthermore, we didnt go for eddie sansbury...local talent who has gone straight into the kangaroos team...and if we needed a forward, why would you not give bradshaw a go???? he is strong, and a very good mark and kick. christ, they gave adam richardson go.
 
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