Moved Thread James Hird - is it time to give him a second chance at coaching an AFL club? Gil says yes! - The PEDs Forum Version

[matthew_s]

well, anyone can use their imagination I guess.

But assuming they took something that is not found to be proven doesn't hold up much merit.

Anyways back to topic.

Gobe admitted on live TV he was injected with AOD. That's 2 of the 3 LB is "assuming" they took.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Gobe admitted on live TV he was injected with AOD. That's 2 of the 3 LB is "assuming" they took.

And ...

The Herald Sun reveals that Dank ordered from biochemist Shane Charter a second banned substance, Thymosin Beta 4 CJC-1295, while working at Essendon. It is not known if the drug was administered to players....

..... Gold Coast defender Nathan Bock dragged into the scandal, with ASADA reportedly set to investigate claims he injected the prohibited drug CJC-1295 in late 2010.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Gobe admitted on live TV he was injected with AOD. That's 2 of the 3 LB is "assuming" they took.

And were the players found guilty of taking AOD as a banned substance? or any other drug mentioned they may or may not have taken?

You see what I'm getting at?

 

[HirdsTheWord]

No. I don't.

My posts were in response to the narrative that the drugs they were taking didn't work and/or weren't performance enhancing.

They were.

The guilty/not guilty aspect of the saga isn't relevant to these points.

Gatorade is performance enchancing.

The point is, if it is not banned and the player is not found guilty of taking a banned substance, who cares? its all needless (and pointless) speculation.

To refer back to the thread, Yes James should not coach because he was in a senior position that saw players take TB4 and banned for it. Nothing else matters.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Gatorade is performance enchancing.

The point is, if it is not banned and the player is not found guilty of taking a banned substance, who cares? its all needless (and pointless) speculation.

To refer back to the thread, Yes James should not coach because he was in a senior position that saw players take TB4 and banned for it. Nothing else matters.

But the effects of Gatorade aren't considered to be substantial enough to warrant banning it.

The effects of HGH are.

There are sports drinks that contained banned substances too.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

To refer back to the thread, Yes James should not coach because he was in a senior position that saw players take TB4 and banned for it. Nothing else matters.

I wasn't responding to that.

I was responding to the view that the team's performance under Hird was not enhanced in any way due to the drugs they were taking.

I don't believe that's true at all.

Essendon believed it did. That's why they were doing it.

 

[matthew_s]

And were the players found guilty of taking AOD as a banned substance? or any other drug mentioned they may or may not have taken?

You see what I'm getting at?

so what you are saying is unless you are found guilty of something it never happened...gotchya.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

But the effects of Gatorade aren't considered to be substantial enough to warrant banning it.

The effects of HGH are.

There are sports drinks that contained banned substances too.

Essendon weren't found to have taken a banned HGH.

So it may as well have been Gatorade.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

so what you are saying is unless you are found guilty of something it never happened...gotchya.

Ok - how do you know it happened it is wasn't proven to have happened?'

Think I'm being pretty reasonable here.

Hird 100% should not coach because of the clubs involvement with TB4. it was proven (beyond doubt) that they took it. I'm ok with that as a factual statement.

Re all this other crap being speculated they took. If you aren't proven to have done it, than you didn't do it. This is a factual statement.

Now if you want to speculate they may not or may have done it than fine, put it as opinion or note it as speculation. To Lavender Bushranger's credit he is saying its his belief. So fair play to that.

 

[hoddo22]

Essendon weren't found to have taken a banned HGH.

So it may as well have been Gatorade.

Nobody is saying they took HGH. They tried to mimic it with stuff they weren't aware was banned.

It's like I feel like some BBQ sauce. I could go down to Coles and grab a bottle off the shelf (HGH).

Or I could grab some ketchup, apple cider vinegar, brown sugar, honey, Worcestershire sauce and lemon juice, mix it all together (Danks cocktail mix of TB4, CJ1295 etc) and I'm sure it taste pretty good.

The Bombers just went the home-brew route and didn't check all ingredients.


On SM-G781B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Nobody is saying they took HGH. They tried to mimic it with stuff they weren't aware was banned.

It's like I feel like some BBQ sauce. I could go down to Coles and grab a bottle off the shelf (HGH).

Or I could grab some ketchup, apple cider vinegar, brown sugar, honey, Worcestershire sauce and lemon juice, mix it all together (Danks cocktail mix of TB4, CJ1295 etc) and I'm sure it taste pretty good.

The Bombers just went the home-brew route and didn't check all ingredients.


On SM-G781B using BigFooty.com mobile app

that is the point!

they didn't take anything else that was banned apart from TB4 - had they would have been banned for that also!

Whatever is being alleged they took to mimic a HGH is either not banned, or not proven to have been taken!

 

[The 747]

that is the point!

they didn't take anything else that was banned apart from TB4 - had they would have been banned for that also!

Yes of course, that's why they destroyed all the records.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Yes of course, that's why they destroyed all the records.

i have no issues with that as a speculation.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Because the team captain went on live, national tv of his own free will and told everyone who was watching that he was injected with AOD.

If anyone holds themselves to your standard of knowing, basically nothing has ever happened in the history of the world.

AOD was not banned at the time they took it. That is why they weren’t specifically banned for it. They were only banned for TB4.

That is the point!

This why they only got done for TB4. James included.

You are mis representing facts. I’d argue if everyone took on your level of knowing we’d be burning people in the street because of what we want them to have have done, not actually what happened.

James shouldn’t coach because of TB4. Everything else is complete speculation.

 

[Chief]

AOD was not banned at the time they took it.

It was not legal for the Essendon Football Club to use it on its players.

The anti-obesity drug AOD-9604 is banned by WADA and ASADA in a blow to Essendon's defence

Anti-obesity drug declared off limits

www.foxsports.com.au

There was no way to legally use it without a medical exemption.

It was not legal for any AFL player to use, and was later officially placed on the list of named substances. Before that it fell under the S0 clause.

Not legal. Illegal. Banned.

 

[Chief]

"It is prohibited in all circumstances," WADA communications director Julie Masse said. "AOD-9604 is a prohibited substance that falls under the S0 category of the Prohibited List."

ASADA said while therapeutic-use exemptions for athletes were available in limited cases, AOD-9604 was not one.

"Substances falling under the S0 category are prohibited at all times (in and out of competition)," it stated. "Given substances under S0 do not have current approval by any governmental regulatory health authority for human therapeutic use, no TUE (Therapeutic Use Exemption) would be granted under any circumstances."

Despite the revealing of Essendon's consent forms - which listed weekly injections of AOD-9604 - the club said it did not prove any player used the substance.

Sports medico Andrew Garnham, who helped write the Ziggy Switkowski report into the club's "irregular practices", said this week there were "grey areas" surrounding approval for the substance.


HirdsTheWord - Why did the club back pedal on "proof players used it" if they were certain it was legal?

 

[HirdsTheWord]

"It is prohibited in all circumstances," WADA communications director Julie Masse said. "AOD-9604 is a prohibited substance that falls under the S0 category of the Prohibited List."

ASADA said while therapeutic-use exemptions for athletes were available in limited cases, AOD-9604 was not one.

"Substances falling under the S0 category are prohibited at all times (in and out of competition)," it stated. "Given substances under S0 do not have current approval by any governmental regulatory health authority for human therapeutic use, no TUE (Therapeutic Use Exemption) would be granted under any circumstances."

Despite the revealing of Essendon's consent forms - which listed weekly injections of AOD-9604 - the club said it did not prove any player used the substance.

Sports medico Andrew Garnham, who helped write the Ziggy Switkowski report into the club's "irregular practices", said this week there were "grey areas" surrounding approval for the substance.


HirdsTheWord - Why did the club back pedal on "proof players used it" if they were certain it was legal?

i'm not arguing the semantics of wether they took it or not.

if Jobe said he took it i believe they took it

though they are not banned for the use of AOD. Ergo, they weren't to be found in error taking it. You guys can argue the semantics of it. I'm simply just saying the factual statement that Essendon were banned for taking TB4 and nothing else.

 

[Yoda_]

Come on Chief you should know better, take it to the bitch and moan about Essendon and ASADA / WADA / CAS thread somewhere else please, this has been done to death

HirdsTheWord do us all a favour and don't bother. People will believe what they want to believe. Give it up and move on. It is what it is now, lets get on with footballing hey

 

[threesixpio]

Gil also said Lance Armstrong should be brought in as a mentor at Tulla

Also recommended a Pol Pot commemoration round

We all need to move on

 

[matthew_s]

AOD was not banned at the time they took it. That is why they weren’t specifically banned for it. They were only banned for TB4.

That is the point!

* me you are a complete moron.

I never said AOD was illegal or otherwise. Go back and read the molehill I posted you've spent hours making into a pointless mountain covered in your own s**t.

 

[Chief]

* me you are a complete moron.

I never said AOD was illegal or otherwise. Go back and read the molehill I posted you've spent hours making into a pointless mountain covered in your own s**t.

Yes calm down please.

Thanks.

 

[Chief]

I'm simply just saying the factual statement that Essendon were banned for taking TB4 and nothing else.

Which is certainly fair enough.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

* me you are a complete moron.

I never said AOD was illegal or otherwise. Go back and read the molehill I posted you've spent hours making into a pointless mountain covered in your own s**t.

play the man huh..lol go take a breather.

so gives a s**t who took it then.

AOD is meaningless - it did not matter then and thus does not matter now.

If it aint banned at the time, it doesn't matter who took it.

 

[dmc333]

All the scared posters here lol, after he wins us our 17th flag he'll be played by Matthew McConaughey in the motion picture.

Don't joke about these things.

 

[VL3OJ]

I would like to announce my candidacy for the pretty vacant Essendon Coaching role. I have been off the bongs since the divvy van passed by the back entrance of Chevron in September, 1985 and I believe I can set up an environment where vitamins can improve the performance. I have a high distinction in A3 Excel spreadsheet defenestration and have spent time with the legal firm of Dank, Charters and Thompson who all have significant legal experience.

My references are Ben Roberts-Smith and Christian Porter, both well known to AFL board members. I rest my case, your honour, sorry I meant, yours faithfully.

Your loyal Essendon Anvil