January 26th 2025

[faible]

Why would the date February 1 be a meaningful and symbolic National day?

We have a King's Birthday public holiday on a day that isn't a King's Birthday, it's almost like it's arbitrary.

 

[Cmarsh]

Fair point.

I reckon we do a shuffle.

Make Australia Day Jan 1st.

Then move the new year holiday to Jan 31st and call it the national Beach day or something.

Sounds sorta ok for people who have easy access to a beach. Not sure how it's meaningful or symbolic enough for a designated National day though.

 

[Cmarsh]

We have a King's Birthday public holiday on a day that isn't a King's Birthday, it's almost like it's arbitrary.

I get that, but the context for the push for change against January 26 is that is considered by many to be divisive and disuniting. Therefore, a push for change must have unifying, meaningful and symbolic elements to have any chance of public agreement. Setting an arbitrary date just for the sake of it won't cut it.

 

[faible]

I get that, but the context for the push for change against January 26 is that is considered by many to be divisive and disuniting. Therefore, a push for change must have unifying, meaningful and symbolic elements to have any chance of public agreement. Setting an arbitrary date just for the sake of it won't cut it.

We've been through this.

Decide to change the date.
Debate what the date should be.

You can keep pretending you're not being disingenuous about the whole thing if you like.

 

[liz]

Do we need a National Day? For what purpose?

 

[peetoo]

Best beach weather on a Friday or Monday in late Jan?

So for Melbourne in 2025 it’s Mon 20th

 

[Cmarsh]

Do we need a National Day? For what purpose?

Because Jan 26 is already recognised as a National day, there is inevitably going to be debate about that if Jan 26 is no longer going to be the designated National day. then what will it be changed to.

Nearly every country of the world, with the exception of the UK and Denmark, have a National Day, and usual it is recognition of the Independence or Federation of a country.

Jan 1, Australia's Federation, has been proposed. However a change to this would be problematic for Australia as there would be no Indigenous significance to this date.

 

[liz]

Because Jan 26 is already recognised as a National day, there is inevitably going to be debate about that if Jan 26 is no longer going to be the designated National day. then what will it be changed to.

Nearly every country of the world, with the exception of the UK and Denmark, have a National Day, and usual it is recognition of the Independence or Federation of a country.

Jan 1, Australia's Federation, has been proposed. However a change to this would be problematic for Australia as there would be no Indigenous significance to this date.

I hadn’t realised the UK and Denmark were the only countries without one. I am British born and bred (Australian by choice) so I didn’t grow up with a national holiday.

I don’t think the date - if it is moved - needs to have positive significance for indigenous Australians. Just not negative significance. I suspect we’d be hard pressed to find a date that was notably positive for indigenous Australians, and if we did, that would just give the mean-spirited a reason to oppose it.

 

[kalex6251]

Do we need a National Day? For what purpose?

holds no interest for me outside of the public holiday benefit ..... i avoid flag wavers, 'aussie pride' nutters and other assorted nationalist zealots at the best of times anyway soooooo ....

that said, fully support first nation calls to rethink the 26th - those concerns need to be acknowledged and respected

 

[Cmarsh]

We've been through this.



You can keep pretending you're not being disingenuous about the whole thing if you like.

Throughout this conversation, I have been quite clear that my view is that any attempt to make an alternate date would end up fizzling out and result in non-agreement as there is no obvious choice for an alternative. That's not being disingenuous, that's being real.

 

[JackOutback]

We have a King's Birthday public holiday on a day that isn't a King's Birthday, it's almost like it's arbitrary.

As I said previously, it's a stalling tactic. By calling for a 'meaningful' national day, it's almost like calling for a day linked to the creation of modern Australia, thus linked to colonialism. Which would prove controversial. At which point they can say, ' see, no on can agree on a day, let's keep it January 26'. An arbitrary date would become meaningful, a date chosen to celebrate what this nation has become, despite the challenges to now.

 

[Kappa]

Do we need a National Day? For what purpose?

You want to get rid of every public holiday that doesn't have a "purpose"?

A day to celebrate this amazing country is a good idea, and remind us how lucky we are to be living here and not in many other places around the world where life is often extremely hard.

 

[Cmarsh]

As I said previously, it's a stalling tactic. By calling for a 'meaningful' national day, it's almost like calling for a day linked to the creation of modern Australia, thus linked to colonialism. Which would prove controversial. At which point they can say, ' see, no on can agree on a day, let's keep it January 26'. An arbitrary date would become meaningful, a date chosen to celebrate what this nation has become, despite the challenges to now.

And how does an arbitrary date become meaningful?

 

[JackOutback]

You want to get rid of every public holiday that doesn't have a "purpose"?

A day to celebrate this amazing country is a good idea, and remind us how lucky we are to be living here and not in many other places around the world where life is often extremely hard.

Outside of New Year's Day, Easter and Christmas, the UK simply has Early May Bank Holiday, Spring Bank Holiday, Summer Bank Holiday. It's a day off for workers nationwide. It doesn't actually need to be themed.

 

[JackOutback]

And how does an arbitrary date become meaningful?

By becoming a date on which people celebrate what the country has become without the baggage of a date linked to negative events for the original inhabitants of this land. It's not ****ing hard.

I also think you vastly overestimate how much of a shit people give that Captain Cook landed in NSW on this particular date. Most people couldn't care less, it's a day off in which you are told to celebrate Australia. You could give them a different day off and tell them to celebrate Australia and they would do so.

 

[Cmarsh]

By becoming a date on which people celebrate what the country has become without the baggage of a date linked to negative events for the original inhabitants of this land. It's not ****ing hard.

I also think you vastly overestimate how much of a shit people give that Captain Cook landed in NSW on this particular date. Most people couldn't care less, it's a day off in which you are told to celebrate Australia. You could give them a different day off and tell them to celebrate Australia and they would do so.

Spoken like an angry West Australian.

Polls suggest majority still want Jan 26 kept, yet you think it is oh so easy to change. Again, a date chosen randomly will not get up. It's a denial of political reality. Every public holiday has some meaning or symbolisim to it.

 

[GreyWind]

By becoming a date on which people celebrate what the country has become without the baggage of a date linked to negative events for the original inhabitants of this land. It's not ****ing hard.

I also think you vastly overestimate how much of a shit people give that Captain Cook landed in NSW on this particular date. Most people couldn't care less, it's a day off in which you are told to celebrate Australia. You could give them a different day off and tell them to celebrate Australia and they would do so.

I mean Cook landed on April 28th.
The First Fleet landed on the 18th of Jan to the 21st.
They then landed in Port Jackson on the evening of the 25th.
The 26th is an arbitrary date as it ****ing is.
We then became a Federation on the 1st of Jan.

The whole of Australia Day celebrations are a fraud, throughout our history we've celebrated different dates in different states. Only becoming this "traditional" day in 1994. It should be the 1st of Jan but nobody wants to have it after NYE.

 

[Mofra]

Rum Rebellion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I'll be celebrating Rum Rebellion day this year

 

[JackOutback]

I mean Cook landed on April 28th.
The First Fleet landed on the 18th of Jan to the 21st.
They then landed in Port Jackson on the evening of the 25th.
The 26th is an arbitrary date as it ****ing is.
We then became a Federation on the 1st of Jan.

The whole of Australia Day celebrations are a fraud, throughout our history we've celebrated different dates in different states. Only becoming this "traditional" day in 1994. It should be the 1st of Jan but nobody wants to have it after NYE.

Was waiting to see how long it would take for someone to pick that up, interestingly it wasn't by the poster that believes the date is oh so meaningful.

And I agree, I'm old enough to remember when it became a national public holiday, so it is within my lifetime that it wasn't celebrated across the country. The idea that it is a longstanding tradition that must be upheld is nonsense.

 

[Cmarsh]

Was waiting to see how long it would take for someone to pick that up, interestingly it wasn't by the poster that believes the date is oh so meaningful.

And I agree, I'm old enough to remember when it became a national public holiday, so it is within my lifetime that it wasn't celebrated across the country. The idea that it is a longstanding tradition that must be upheld is nonsense.

I never claimed that Jan 26 is meaningful. I am arguing that a change of date would have to be meaningful and symbolic for it to gain acceptance as a National day.

 

[JackOutback]

I never claimed that Jan 26 is meaningful. I am arguing that a change of date would have to be meaningful and symbolic for it to gain acceptance as a National day.

So, January 26 isn't meaningful but has become accepted as a national day, but we need a day that is meaningful in order for it to be accepted as a national day? That's the position you are holding here?

 

[Cmarsh]

So, January 26 isn't meaningful but has become accepted as a national day, but we need a day that is meaningful in order for it to be accepted as a national day? That's the position you are holding here?

I don't think it's particularly meaningful personally, but there are still alot that do, hence my belief that an attempt to change will be frought with problems, along with the fact there is no obvious alternate date to change it to. It will result in no agreement.

 

[schneebly111]

Perhaps growing consensus would have been a better choice of words, there was an understanding starting to develop that a day like the 26th can't be called a national day when it's so divisive. Dutton has come along and trampled on all of that in the hope people forget that he's a policy vacuum.

I heard a proposal once that I didn’t entirely agree with but I could see how it could be a somewhat improvement over the current situation.

The dawn and morning of the 26th starts off as a solemn affair, dawn services to acknowledge the hurt and loss suffered by indigenous people, recognition of the wrongs of settlement and the importance of indigenous people in our history.

As the day progresses through the afternoon and evening we move to where the nation is now and where we want it to be in the future with community events to present award winners and acknowledgment of the youth and their vision for the future. Overt celebration like fireworks and flag waving is toned down, so the day becomes a bit more respectful.

I could see how that would be a bit better, but now Dutton and Murdoch have ensured the flag waving brigade will be decked out in full force on the day basically acting like bogan tools so the day won’t be one of respect. In the mid 00s it got so bad at the Big Day Out concerts held on the day when bogans were demanding concertgoers kiss Aussie flags or risk getting smacked in the head. I fear the bogan nationalism is where the day is headed.

 

[Rob R]

This is a stalling tactic, used effectively in the republic referendum and repeated ad nauseum ever since. That's a separate decision that can made after it's determined whether most people are in favour of a new date or simply if a decision is simply made.

It is the right way to do things, otherwise you could end up with a solution that less people want compared to the current model/date.

Unless of course, it is a cancel decision.
Then, If the republicans ever agree on a model (which would seem to be simple, GG chosen by a two thirds majority of the senate) and it gets up in a referendum then that can be a new national day.

On SM-A136B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[schneebly111]

Polls suggest majority still want Jan 26 kept, yet you think it is oh so easy to change. Again, a date chosen randomly will not get up. It's a denial of political reality. Every public holiday has some meaning or symbolisim to it.

The IPA polls ask “do you think Australia Day should be kept on Jan 26” mostly because they’re no alternative. But I’d like to see a poll which ask this question:

“Do you think Australia Day public holiday should remain on the 26th of January even if that means it falls midweek, or do you think it should be a guaranteed long weekend last weekend in January?”

I reckon the “keep it on the 26th” numbers would fall dramatically in that case.