Opinion Jarryd Lyons - Are midfielders supposed to take this long?

[Ravenous Crow]

How many players on our list could do what he does out of this stoppage?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

How many players on our list could do what he does out of this stoppage?

That's the whole game!

 

[Ravenous Crow]

That's the whole game!

Oh it should skip to 18 minutes 10. If it doesn't... at least they cut out the quarter and half breaks.

 

[King Elvis]

You legend, I'll watch that tonight

 

[spexau]

Yeah that was a brilliant spin move. He's an excellent clearance player who happens to be a handy forward.

Someone compared him to Douglas. Dougie has been a good player for the club but JL is a better inside midfielder.

 

[King Elvis]

Nice spin and fantastic awareness with the kick, too.

 

[King Elvis]

Watching the replay - something else of interest; Lyons is very vocal at centre bounces - really involved in setups and direction.

 

[Shaz2012]

Someone compared him to Douglas. Dougie has been a good player for the club but JL is a better inside midfielder.

JL definitely seemed to come into the team to play Dougies inside role. He is by far in front. What I find interesting is that he seems to be pretty close to taking over Thommo now. Doing a comparison on footywire, there doesnt seem to be much between them when you consider some key points:

JL VS Thommo
12.3 Kicks Per Game 11.2
8.2 Handballs Per Game 13.1
20.6 Disposals Per Game 24.3
3.3 Marks Per Game 2.9
1.0 Goals Per Game 0.1
4.4 Tackles Per Game 7.3
4.2 Inside 50s Per Game 3.5
0.9 Goal Assists Per Game 0.3
10.1 Contested Possessions Per Game 11.3
11.0 Uncontested Possessions Per Game 12.9
67% Effective Disposals % Per Game 65%
1.9 Clangers Per Game 3.9
3.9 Clearances Per Game 5.8
68.8 Time On Ground % Per Game 81.3

Not sure if time on ground indicates JL doesnt have enough of a tank, but you have to wonder if he can bump up his clearances and tackles with more time on the ground and more time in the centre. Also, Thommo seems to have dropped off from the start of the year. I wonder if JL would be ahead if we looked ignored the first month or two when comparing.

 

[hey shorty]

He's doing a good job, and is a positive from Voldemorts departure. More importantly he finally believes he belongs.

His 2nd goal last night oozed confidence, last year he would've blazed early rather than taking a step or two to steady.

 

[Pugsley]

Its been worth the wait.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Is Lyons contracted?

 

[Hank93]

Is Lyons contracted?

According to our BigFooty contract thread, no he is not. Also Cheney out of contract this year too.

 

[Deaneus!]

JL definitely seemed to come into the team to play Dougies inside role. He is by far in front. What I find interesting is that he seems to be pretty close to taking over Thommo now. Doing a comparison on footywire, there doesnt seem to be much between them when you consider some key points:

JL VS Thommo
12.3 Kicks Per Game 11.2
8.2 Handballs Per Game 13.1
20.6 Disposals Per Game 24.3
3.3 Marks Per Game 2.9
1.0 Goals Per Game 0.1
4.4 Tackles Per Game 7.3
4.2 Inside 50s Per Game 3.5
0.9 Goal Assists Per Game 0.3
10.1 Contested Possessions Per Game 11.3
11.0 Uncontested Possessions Per Game 12.9
67% Effective Disposals % Per Game 65%
1.9 Clangers Per Game 3.9
3.9 Clearances Per Game 5.8
68.8 Time On Ground % Per Game 81.3

Not sure if time on ground indicates JL doesnt have enough of a tank, but you have to wonder if he can bump up his clearances and tackles with more time on the ground and more time in the centre. Also, Thommo seems to have dropped off from the start of the year. I wonder if JL would be ahead if we looked ignored the first month or two when comparing.

When you adjust for Time On Ground difference:



JL is doing better in every category except handballs, tackles and clearances. Hilariously, disposals are equal.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

When you adjust for Time On Ground difference:

View attachment 267400

JL is doing better in every category except handballs, tackles and clearances. Hilariously, disposals are equal.

With less % of midfield time.

 

[MRB37]

It's surprising how well we do in the midfield at times with Brad and Matt Crouch and Lyons always being are least used players on ground and usually topping off at around 80-85 minutes a game.

 

[1970crow]

JL definitely seemed to come into the team to play Dougies inside role. He is by far in front. What I find interesting is that he seems to be pretty close to taking over Thommo now. Doing a comparison on footywire, there doesnt seem to be much between them when you consider some key points:

JL VS Thommo
12.3 Kicks Per Game 11.2
8.2 Handballs Per Game 13.1
20.6 Disposals Per Game 24.3
3.3 Marks Per Game 2.9
1.0 Goals Per Game 0.1
4.4 Tackles Per Game 7.3
4.2 Inside 50s Per Game 3.5
0.9 Goal Assists Per Game 0.3
10.1 Contested Possessions Per Game 11.3
11.0 Uncontested Possessions Per Game 12.9
67% Effective Disposals % Per Game 65%
1.9 Clangers Per Game 3.9
3.9 Clearances Per Game 5.8
68.8 Time On Ground % Per Game 81.3

Not sure if time on ground indicates JL doesnt have enough of a tank, but you have to wonder if he can bump up his clearances and tackles with more time on the ground and more time in the centre. Also, Thommo seems to have dropped off from the start of the year. I wonder if JL would be ahead if we looked ignored the first month or two when comparing.

I'm not a fan of removing games to end up with a lesser average. But with Thommo there's been 2 distinct seasons. Rounds 1-6 he averaged a whopping 29.5 touches per game. That has reduced every week to its present 24.3. Not once has he exceeded his declining average since it began to fall. His first 7 games at 29.5 were followed by 8 at 20.9. That's a huge drop off and the explanations created regarding changed roles is pure fantasy.

But, the question is not whether he's still our most important mid, he's clearly behind 3-4, but whether he's holding out a player who would give us more. We're really looking at Wigg and CEY and right now I'd say Thommo's just ahead. But he certainly cannot get any worse and probably needs to improve, otherwise if the best case scenario occurs and we're playing on a warm day on October 1st, he's looking like being a complete passenger at present. And the belief that his 300 game battering ram will magically return to form purely because he's Thommo, would be nothing more than blind optimism.

 

[Gets!]

So much love for JL. AFC through and through.

 

[Pdub]

I'm not a fan of removing games to end up with a lesser average. But with Thommo there's been 2 distinct seasons. Rounds 1-6 he averaged a whopping 29.5 touches per game. That has reduced every week to its present 24.3. Not once has he exceeded his declining average since it began to fall. His first 7 games at 29.5 were followed by 8 at 20.9. That's a huge drop off and the explanations created regarding changed roles is pure fantasy.

But, the question is not whether he's still our most important mid, he's clearly behind 3-4, but whether he's holding out a player who would give us more. We're really looking at Wigg and CEY and right now I'd say Thommo's just ahead. But he certainly cannot get any worse and probably needs to improve, otherwise if the best case scenario occurs and we're playing on a warm day on October 1st, he's looking like being a complete passenger at present. And the belief that his 300 game battering ram will magically return to form purely because he's Thommo, would be nothing more than blind optimism.

There is only so much ball to go around and Sauce can only tap the ball in the direction of one midfielder at a time, I think Thomo's declining numbers have been due to more and more responsibility getting given to Crouch x2 and Lyons. I think Campo is fazing him out and using him as the main man around the stoppage in small bursts when it's needed the most.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

I'm not a fan of removing games to end up with a lesser average. But with Thommo there's been 2 distinct seasons. Rounds 1-6 he averaged a whopping 29.5 touches per game. That has reduced every week to its present 24.3. Not once has he exceeded his declining average since it began to fall. His first 7 games at 29.5 were followed by 8 at 20.9. That's a huge drop off and the explanations created regarding changed roles is pure fantasy.

But, the question is not whether he's still our most important mid, he's clearly behind 3-4, but whether he's holding out a player who would give us more. We're really looking at Wigg and CEY and right now I'd say Thommo's just ahead. But he certainly cannot get any worse and probably needs to improve, otherwise if the best case scenario occurs and we're playing on a warm day on October 1st, he's looking like being a complete passenger at present. And the belief that his 300 game battering ram will magically return to form purely because he's Thommo, would be nothing more than blind optimism.

I agree with your line of reasoning but the chances of Thompson not playing finals this year are 0% if not injured.

For mine, Lyons fantastic form as not only an inside mid but also ball carrying high forward allows us this luxury. In saying that I think we could further improve the team by removing another slowing veteran who isn't offering much of unique value to the side atm in Douglas. But it's up to a young gun in the SANFL to force him out.

 

[Tex200]

It's surprising how well we do in the midfield at times with Brad and Matt Crouch and Lyons always being are least used players on ground and usually topping off at around 80-85 minutes a game.

There's some Pyke genius at work there I'm sure. Just needs someone with a maths or science degree t work it out lol

 

[headache1]

"Not AFL standard"

 

[headache1]

There's some Pyke genius at work there I'm sure. Just needs someone with a maths or science degree t work it out lol

cmndstab

 

[1970crow]

There is only so much ball to go around and Sauce can only tap the ball in the direction of one midfielder at a time, I think Thomo's declining numbers have been due to more and more responsibility getting given to Crouch x2 and Lyons. I think Campo is fazing him out and using him as the main man around the stoppage in small bursts when it's needed the most.

Someone described that as a change in role, but it's really a change in pecking order. Thommo isn't the go to guy for Sauce because he's not the best guy to try and get the ball to any more. It's probably fair to suggest this could be argued is a chicken and egg scenario. Regarding your last sentence, from my TV viewpoint, I still see Thommo working heavily from stoppage to stoppage during his 80 odd % TOG. Are you saying he's resting a fair bit in the forward lines these last couple of months?

 

[Pdub]

It's surprising how well we do in the midfield at times with Brad and Matt Crouch and Lyons always being are least used players on ground and usually topping off at around 80-85 minutes a game.

There was a stat on one of the footy shows on fox the other week how we have had the same 4 players attend a center bounce more than any other side, our most common occurring combination had occurred 85 times, on the other end of the scale was Hawthorn who's most common combination had only occurred 13 times.

I think we are treating the rotation cap differently to other sides and keeping forwards and backs on the field, so midfielders can spend more time resting on the bench rather than resting forward or back. I think we have a preferred group of midfielders to attend a stoppage and we use that until they are all buggered and then rest them all.

 

[Jars458]

I agree with your line of reasoning but the chances of Thompson not playing finals this year are 0% if not injured.

For mine, Lyons fantastic form as not only an inside mid but also ball carrying high forward allows us this luxury. In saying that I think we could further improve the team by removing another slowing veteran who isn't offering much of unique value to the side atm in Douglas. But it's up to a young gun in the SANFL to force him out.

yep agreed, and we have Hampton, Doedee, Wigg, Menzel, Milera and Knight that could fit the bill. Lots of talent coming through but maybe not this year but next.