Entertainment & Music Jedi -V- Borg

[holy diver]

The Borg and species 8472 are fictional.
Jedi are not....
The Australia Bureau of Statistics claim there are 70,509 practicing Jedi Knights in Australia alone.

There are no Borg, apart from Victor.

There is a Klingon Language Institute. An actual "Federation" or some description based in America.

Those are "practicing" Trekkies/Trekkers as well. Have you ever watched the documentaries on hard-core trek fans?

There is also William Shatner.

 

[Tex_21]

Chuck Norris.

 

[Pie eyed]

There is a Kilingon Language Institute. An actual "Federation" or some description based in America.

Those are "practicing" Trekkies/Trekkers as well. Have you ever watched the documentaries on hard-core trek fans?

There is also William Shatner.

Shatner I accept as evidence but until they are recognized by the BoS I see no Borg.

The "myth" of the Borg was more likely constructed to coverup Scotty's propensity for drunken, late night "asteroid hunting" sessions after his weekly Scotch and Cigar appreciation functions.
The photon Torpedoes had to be accounted for somehow and hence the numerous "Borg" encounters were concocted.

 

[The Goon]

Case for the Borg.

Assimilated Borg Death Star is game over, and the Borg are experts at stealing intelligence and converting it to their own needs. Also, a Death Star with a trans-warp drive. That's dramatically improved travelling speed. The Borg typically would build thousands.

But there's nothing in the Borg arsenal to deal with a Death Star in the first place. The small independent fighter units that destroyed both Death Stars don't exist in the Federation universe. Even if they did the Borg being a collective would be ineffective pilots.

 

[holy diver]

But there's nothing in the Borg arsenal to deal with a Death Star in the first place. The small independent fighter units that destroyed both Death Stars don't exist in the Federation universe. Even if they did the Borg being a collective would be ineffective pilots.

Borg has teleportation technology. Imperials/Jedi don't.
They just move enough cube or sphere vessels in close enough to board the Death Star through teleportation. They could swarm vital areas within a very short period of time causing mayhem and confusion. All to their advantage.
..and yes Borg teleportation can penetrate shields. Not a problem for the Borg.

 

[Thrawn]

..and yes Borg teleportation can penetrate shields. Not a problem for the Borg.

No, they can't. If that were the case, the Federation would have been defeated.

They just move enough cube or sphere vessels in close enough to board the Death Star through teleportation. They could swarm vital areas within a very short period of time causing mayhem and confusion

You're assuming that:

- They know where to beam in the first place.
- They can actually beam through shielding.
- Their ships won't be blasted by the death star's thousands of surface weapons and squadrons of fighters.

Also, a Death Star with a trans-warp drive. That's dramatically improved travelling speed. The Borg typically would build thousands.

Dramatically improved? Obi Wan managed to get from the Courscant to the outer rim in the manner of a few days in Episode II, does Trek warp drive even come close to this speed? Trans-warp hubs can easily be destroyed.

 

[The Goon]

Borg has teleportation technology. Imperials/Jedi don't.
They just move enough cube or sphere vessels in close enough to board the Death Star through teleportation. They could swarm vital areas within a very short period of time causing mayhem and confusion. All to their advantage.
..and yes Borg teleportation can penetrate shields. Not a problem for the Borg.

Hmm ... but following your reasoning then the Imperials / Jedi would acquire teleportation in a short time no? Imagine a couple of jedi running amok in a cube or sphere. Not necessarily efficient but they would stand no chance.

 

[holy diver]

Firstly, I love both series so since Jedi seem to have more than enough advocates I'm just trying to forward the Borgs case here.

No, they can't. If that were the case, the Federation would have been defeated.

They can. They did beam into other vessels at will. If you have watched enough Star Trek you will know this. They would board the Death Star in this manner. The would attempt to overwhelm very quickly by spamming huge numbers into vital areas which...

You're assuming that:

- They know where to beam in the first place.
- They can actually beam through shielding.
- Their ships won't be blasted by the death star's thousands of surface weapons and squadrons of fighters.

..They will gain knowledge of with their own highly advanced scans. You have to remember they have assimilated tens of thousands of various species. They have absorbed all their technology. They are capable of gaining detailed intelligence with there scan/sweeps. You can see this on the various Star Trek TV series. Through this, they will know which vital areas to attack with drones. It must be said that they learn as well through assimilation so the Borg have two obvious avenues to gain 'inside' knowledge.
They have the technology to read a shields signature to beam through it.
The empire/Jedi would have to work out expedient modulation of shield signatures would be about the only way to frustrate Borg attempts to board the Death Star.
Also, the Borg can summon many many Vessels, Borg Cubes and Spheres. They will literally sacrifice many ships to get even one close enough to beam in drones or accomplish whatever task they think will bring victory.
Plus during attack they will be looking to assimilate individuals, which is one of the Borg's primary goals. They certainly are not as weak as some have made out. Underestimate them at your peril. Sure their weaknesses are easy to find but the Borg also play to their strengths very well.

Dramatically improved? Obi Wan managed to get from the Courscant to the outer rim in the manner of a few days in Episode II, does Trek warp drive even come close to this speed? Trans-warp hubs can easily be destroyed.

The Borg assimilated the knowledge to 'fold space'. In Star Trek Voyager you can see the Borg moving vast distances by moving into an alternate dimension only to 'step out' if you will a vast distance away in a very short period of time. It's how they have gained control of most of the Star Trek universe's Delta Quadrant.
It's also how they met their foe species 8472 which kick the Borg's ass.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

Death Star may be mighty yet unwieldy, Eclipse Class Star Destroyer would wipe any Borg fleet from this dimensional plane before they had the chance to beam aboard the ship, l alone engage in a fire fight.

Facts are the Borg have not assimilated the Federation. The Empire, Galactic Republic or Old Republic have forces and fire power on an economy of scale compared to the Federation which is akin to Gazans (Federation) throwing rocks at Israeli tanks (take your pick from the star wars timeline).

 

[azreal]

Death Star may be mighty yet unwieldy, Eclipse Class Star Destroyer would wipe any Borg fleet from this dimensional plane before they had the chance to beam aboard the ship, l alone engage in a fire fight.

Facts are the Borg have not assimilated the Federation. The Empire, Galactic Republic or Old Republic have forces and fire power on an economy of scale compared to the Federation which is akin to Gazans (Federation) throwing rocks at Israeli tanks (take your pick from the star wars timeline).

Fair point. Assimilating them would take quite a long time, but it would also yield invaluable knowledge about the construction of their vessels and indeed the mighty death star.

 

[holy diver]

Death Star may be mighty yet unwieldy, Eclipse Class Star Destroyer would wipe any Borg fleet from this dimensional plane before they had the chance to beam aboard the ship, l alone engage in a fire fight.

Facts are the Borg have not assimilated the Federation. The Empire, Galactic Republic or Old Republic have forces and fire power on an economy of scale compared to the Federation which is akin to Gazans (Federation) throwing rocks at Israeli tanks (take your pick from the star wars timeline).

Very good points.
I may counter with a point that the entire Borg armada and military might have not been directed at the Federation and her allies such as the Klingons. It's a no contest that the Borg in full numbers outnumber the Federation side. Maybe the Borg has comprable numbers to the Emipre/Old Republic/New Republic/Jedi Order. Remember they too control and dominate a very large portion of space. They can draw on the resources of the many many planets they have assimilated. Would that not also provide a large scale production base for war?

So anyone got a few contacts in Hollywood so we can make this happen?

 

[Thrawn]

They can. They did beam into other vessels at will. If you have watched enough Star Trek you will know this. They would board the Death Star in this manner. The would attempt to overwhelm very quickly by spamming huge numbers into vital areas which...

The Borg cannot beam through shields. They have to drain the shields of the ship first.

..They will gain knowledge of with their own highly advanced scans. You have to remember they have assimilated tens of thousands of various species. They have absorbed all their technology.

None of which match the technology of the Empire. This is a galactic spanning civilisation you're talking about, not some backwater planet. The Borg, despite all their power, couldn't even defeat the Federation, who are significantly weaker than the Empire.

They are capable of gaining detailed intelligence with there scan/sweeps. You can see this on the various Star Trek TV series. Through this, they will know which vital areas to attack with drones. It must be said that they learn as well through assimilation so the Borg have two obvious avenues to gain 'inside' knowledge.

You're assuming that Imperial ships would just sit idly by without jamming their scans. And assuming they wouldn't just blow them up before they could even finish. You're also assuming that they can do this against every ship system, no matter how advanced it is.

Tell me, what happened when they tried to scan Species 8472? They got their arses whooped.

They have the technology to read a shields signature to beam through it.

They do, which works perfectly against races that are technologically inferior to them.

The empire/Jedi would have to work out expedient modulation of shield signatures would be about the only way to frustrate Borg attempts to
board the Death Star.

What if their shields are an entirely foreign concept to the Borg that they wouldn't have a clue where to start off? The Federation had no problems tweaking their shield signatures - you think a 25,000 year old republic/empire would struggle with this?

Also, the Borg can summon many many Vessels, Borg Cubes and Spheres. They will literally sacrifice many ships to get even one close enough to beam in drones or accomplish whatever task they think will bring victory.

So can the Empire... having most of the galaxy's resources at their disposal. Can't say the same for the Borg.

Plus during attack they will be looking to assimilate individuals, which is one of the Borg's primary goals. They certainly are not as weak as some have made out. Underestimate them at your peril. Sure their weaknesses are easy to find but the Borg also play to their strengths very well.

Never said they were weak, but taking on Jedi/Empire... they will be crushed like insects.

The Borg assimilated the knowledge to 'fold space'. In Star Trek Voyager you can see the Borg moving vast distances by moving into an alternate dimension only to 'step out' if you will a vast distance away in a very short period of time. It's how they have gained control of most of the Star Trek universe's Delta Quadrant.

Hyperdrive also folds space. That's what hyperspace is.

It's also how they met their foe species 8472 which kick the Borg's ass.

Much like the Empire/Jedi will. Imagine an external threat - there'd be no rebellion, the entire galaxy would unite and crush them.

 

[rodney86]

Is this the sci fi geek version of Buckley v Hird v Voss?

 

[flamethrower]

Jedi v The Borg - Hollywood dictates that the good guys always win.

Resistance is Futile.

Is this the sci fi geek version of Buckley v Hird v Voss?

No, this is Good versus Evil.

Buckley v Hird v Voss would be:

The Borg v The Goa'uld v Emperor Palpatine and the Empire

 

[holy diver]

Chuck Norris.

The Borg cannot beam through shields. They have to drain the shields of the ship first.



None of which match the technology of the Empire. This is a galactic spanning civilisation you're talking about, not some backwater planet. The Borg, despite all their power, couldn't even defeat the Federation, who are significantly weaker than the Empire.



You're assuming that Imperial ships would just sit idly by without jamming their scans. And assuming they wouldn't just blow them up before they could even finish. You're also assuming that they can do this against every ship system, no matter how advanced it is.

Tell me, what happened when they tried to scan Species 8472? They got their arses whooped.



They do, which works perfectly against races that are technologically inferior to them.



What if their shields are an entirely foreign concept to the Borg that they wouldn't have a clue where to start off? The Federation had no problems tweaking their shield signatures - you think a 25,000 year old republic/empire would struggle with this?



So can the Empire... having most of the galaxy's resources at their disposal. Can't say the same for the Borg.



Never said they were weak, but taking on Jedi/Empire... they will be crushed like insects.



Hyperdrive also folds space. That's what hyperspace is.



Much like the Empire/Jedi will. Imagine an external threat - there'd be no rebellion, the entire galaxy would unite and crush them.

Excellent defence of the Jedi, Thrawn. Since I am advocating for the Borg for the sake of this discussion I have one simple question for you then?

If a Borg assimilated a Jedi and by doing so accquired the ability to replicate midichlorians for the entire Borg nation, do you think that would level the playing field?