Opinion Jeff Kennett News, Media etc.

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Wouldn’t mind Jeff raising other issues with our fixture.
Has anyone checked out the last three rounds of the year?
It’s GWS in Canberra, gc in gold coast,
Eagles in Perth. If that’s not rigging I don’t know what is.
No complaints here on going to the capital, Footy Friday Night, Bentspoke Saturday night, Canberra Raiders Sunday Ned Ryerson, come on guys get up there and make it a Hawks takeover.
 
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No complaints here on going to the capital, Footy Friday Night, Bentspoke Saturday night, Canberra Raiders Sunday Ned Ryerson, come on guys get up there and make it a Hawks takeover.
Still under heavy consideration! Just need to work out the finances as it would likely mean two days off work and I am annoyingly doing a contract role at present so no paid leave :(
 
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Hasn't that been the status quo since Jeff came in?
I would love it if presidential bluster and comeuppance to AFL leadership could be shown to have some benefit to the club, but i don't see it.
For many years, starting in the 70's, we talked behind closed doors to gain access to change that was club alteringly beneficial..
And how did that work out when Oakley tried to bone the club?

The draw is a disgrace. Gill is out of his depth and even the biggest of Hawthorn haters could hardly deny that there isnt at the very least the appearance of an agenda re these late Sunday games. How can a club have circa 80k members and yet get treated like that?

Its NOT RATIONAL unless there is a hidden agenda (or not so hidden as the case may be).
 
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And how did that work out when Oakley tried to bone the club?

The draw is a disgrace. Gill is out of his depth and even the biggest of Hawthorn haters could hardly deny that there isnt at the very least the appearance of an agenda re these late Sunday games. How can a club have circa 80k members and yet get treated like that?

Its NOT RATIONAL unless there is a hidden agenda (or not so hidden as the case may be).
It worked out great.
Aside from the tinfoil hats on here that want to whine about the fixture and thems that's out to get us, weve been supported in making all the decisions that got us here.
Supporters need to get a grip.
 
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Thankyou Jeff for saying it as it is. The AFL are trying everything they can from fixturing to umpiring decisions. They don't want us strong...it is clear now..even after our president calls it out. The more they try the stronger our belief becomes. Clarkson is our rudder.
In regards to the whole notion on equalisation I would've thought this is a no brainer. Total ********, but of course it's in the AFL's best interest to keep us down. Exactly what happened with the abolishment of country zoning in the 80s, and a **** ton of other rules changed to make things harder for Clarkson. Try as they might, we'll find another way.. Labor victory will be very handy in terms of us funding Dingley Land.
 

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And how did that work out when Oakley tried to bone the club?

The draw is a disgrace. Gill is out of his depth and even the biggest of Hawthorn haters could hardly deny that there isnt at the very least the appearance of an agenda re these late Sunday games. How can a club have circa 80k members and yet get treated like that?

Its NOT RATIONAL unless there is a hidden agenda (or not so hidden as the case may be).
There's an agenda alright.
 
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It worked out great.
Aside from the tinfoil hats on here that want to whine about the fixture and thems that's out to get us, weve been supported in making all the decisions that got us here.
Supporters need to get a grip.
So we get multiple home games in the known worst time slot in the league and had EVERY request for this year’s draw turned down but we’re crazy to think there’s some anti-Hawthorn sentiment occurring. K.
 

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So we get multiple home games in the known worst time slot in the league and had EVERY request for this year’s draw turned down but we’re crazy to think there’s some anti-Hawthorn sentiment occurring. K.
Ask every other team and at least half of them will have supporters with EXACTLY the same gripe.
There is no fix in against us, there is no reason for there to be one, it is absolutely RIDICULOUS to create one in your mind.
HOWEVER, I believe we would have MORE success communicating our needs and PERHAPS get a free hit on occasion IF we weren't seen to be giant ******* pain in the arses through media leak attacks on AFL directorship.
FWIW, JMHO.
 

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It worked out great.
Aside from the tinfoil hats on here that want to whine about the fixture and thems that's out to get us, weve been supported in making all the decisions that got us here.
Supporters need to get a grip.
Apart from the zoning issue (which was more a mid 1960's decision) were we really treated well but the VFL?

Lifted from this thread way back?

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/are-we-the-first-victorian-franchise-club.1099742/?desktop=1

The club was in a bind after the 1961 premiership when the club effectively outgrew Glenferrie Oval (a similar problem faced by Richmond with the Punt Road duplication dramatically cutting their outer around the same time)

The VFL rejected our move to the MCG in 1964 as well as an ill fated move to Box Hill in the mid to late 1960's, Hawthorn was left with no choice to move out of the supporter heartland and into the northern suburbs (Princes Park) in 1974 which proved toxic for our membership and crowds.

In 1961 we were recorded our record home ground attendance of 24,056, all in the tinpot sized Glenferrie Oval...

In took until 1990 (when we played 5 home games at Waverley Park) for us to better that figure (8 premierships later)

Even our move the very unpopular VFL Park in the late 1980's / early 1990's was probably a hindrance for membership and supporter growth which cultivated in the 1996 merger debate.

Since 2000 (and more so since 2008) Hawthorn has dramatically increased its membership and support thanks in no small part to the MCG move. Had we moved sooner (perhaps during the golden run of the 1970's and 1980's) perhaps we would be even stronger today
 
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Ask every other team and at least half of them will have supporters with EXACTLY the same gripe.
There is no fix in against us, there is no reason for there to be one, it is absolutely RIDICULOUS to create one in your mind.
HOWEVER, I believe we would have MORE success communicating our needs and PERHAPS get a free hit on occasion IF we weren't seen to be giant ******* pain in the arses through media leak attacks on AFL directorship.
FWIW, JMHO.
My NRL team has had club officials told by NRL officials that they wished that we would just 'wither on the vine' because they would rather give our license to another club. We get 2-3 free to air games per year which starves us of exposure and limits sponsorship potential as a result. Compare that to the Broncos who play on free to air almost every single week in prime time slots (Thursday and Friday nights predominantly). If you think that sporting codes don't play favourites or cater to certain clubs then you are naive. If you think we get a fair treatment at the hands of the AFL compared to Sydney, GWS, Gold Coast, Geelong, Carlton, Essendon, Collingwood and Richmond - then good luck to you. I see it very differently. The AFL is nice enough to take our money but when it comes to getting something back in our fixture they are nowhere to be seen.
 
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Apart from the zoning issue (which was more a mid 1960's decision) were we really treated well but the VFL?

Lifted from this thread way back?

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/are-we-the-first-victorian-franchise-club.1099742/?desktop=1

The club was in a bind after the 1961 premiership when the club effectively outgrew Glenferrie Oval (a similar problem faced by Richmond with the Punt Road duplication dramatically cutting their outer around the same time)

The VFL rejected our move to the MCG in 1964 as well as an ill fated move to Box Hill in the mid to late 1960's, Hawthorn was left with no choice to move out of the supporter heartland and into the northern suburbs (Princes Park) in 1974 which proved toxic for our membership and crowds.

In 1961 we were recorded our record home ground attendance of 24,056, all in the tinpot sized Glenferrie Oval...

In took until 1990 (when we played 5 home games at Waverley Park) for us to better that figure (8 premierships later)

Even our move the very unpopular VFL Park in the late 1980's / early 1990's was probably a hindrance for membership and supporter growth which cultivated in the 1996 merger debate.

Since 2000 (and more so since 2008) Hawthorn has dramatically increased its membership and support thanks in no small part to the MCG move. Had we moved sooner (perhaps during the golden run of the 1970's and 1980's) perhaps we would be even stronger today
Not sure if you actually lived through those periods. I did.
We were a small club. Seriously, a small club with small membership and a horrible history in the competition until 57' when we made the finals FOR THE FIRST TIME.
After Kennedy took the reigns we built a culture that led to success on the field, but never translated to membership support. Nothing to do with where we played, and everything to do with a lack of history of winning which translated to small supporter base (I was one of two Hawk supporters I knew growing up, through multiple schools) and the new kids latching on in the early to mid 70's were yet to have the financial means or required gumption to demand paid up dues to support the team.

Yes we bounced, BECAUSE we couldn't become a truly professional club at Glenferrie, and there were limited options for a low drawing team like ours.
Our stint at Princes sucked, but not because the league had an agenda against us. It sucked because the Blues had zero interest in providing a soft landing spot that was financially advantageous to us. They were simply landlords looking to suck what they could out of our tenancy.
Our stint at Waverly was a god send. Not because it was a great venue to watch the game at, but because we enjoyed enormous success through the period and grew our support in the Eastern suburbs many folds over as geographically they felt linked to us. We were also on the telly a bunch because the league wanted the ground out there to be a financial success and not be beholden to the silver wigs at the MCG and their combative negotiations for ground usage etc.

We've absolutely future proofed ourselves because of that move to VFL park.
It's dumb **** to pretend otherwise.

We lost recruiting zones just like EVERY BLOODY ONE ELSE, and though we made great hay out of the recruiting areas it is absolutely fair that the draft provides equal ish opportunity for all clubs to grow their lists and build for success.

Our move to Tasmania was also supported and sanctioned by the AFL, and has been a boon to filling a niche period in which secondary funding while our membership grew has kept the coffers filled.

Finally, here's a little something I live by. Maybe it's because I'm jewish and had small numbers of family survive the holocaust, move out to Oz, where i grew up being called a bloody jew as I waited for my school bus and other private school buses blew past me, and when I played for the Ajax footy club teams like Edi-Aspendale used to towel us on the field while asking me where my tail was and how did it feel to kill Christ...

When I see others with with less and being treated as less, I'm always saying inside myself 'There but for the grace of God go I'.
My life is much better today, my kids lives are much better today, and my Club, my glorious Club who has managed the transformation from minnow barely surviving year to year financially all the while being incredibly successful on the field, to now being a juggernaught...now has supporters on here piss on other clubs struggling to make their way, whose memberships are far fewer than ours, who need equalization to survive.

We needed it too sunshine.
We didn't do it ALL on our own, we had support from other clubs to do the things that got us here, and it isn't too bloody much to support the AFL in making it a healthy competition for all, even if that means putting in more that we get out.

There but for the grace of god go our club.
Stop with the ridiculous paranoia.
The AFL wants ALL clubs successful, has no agenda to hurt our own magnificent team, and uses fixturing and other means to make sure it's not only Collingwood/Richmond/Carlton/Essendon/Hawthorn that get to play out of Victoria.
That's Ok dude, in fact it's magnificent.
 
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My NRL team has had club officials told by NRL officials that they wished that we would just 'wither on the vine' because they would rather give our license to another club. We get 2-3 free to air games per year which starves us of exposure and limits sponsorship potential as a result. Compare that to the Broncos who play on free to air almost every single week in prime time slots (Thursday and Friday nights predominantly). If you think that sporting codes don't play favourites or cater to certain clubs then you are naive. If you think we get a fair treatment at the hands of the AFL compared to Sydney, GWS, Gold Coast, Geelong, Carlton, Essendon, Collingwood and Richmond - then good luck to you. I see it very differently. The AFL is nice enough to take our money but when it comes to getting something back in our fixture they are nowhere to be seen.
Can't disagree with what you've said about the NRL, I don't have the information you obviously do.
If helping others MORE means you think the AFL are shafting us, then I understand your view.
I disagree vehemently with that thinking, as inevitably you can't treat 18 clubs equally because we don't all play out of one venue and fixturing can't be manufactured so that everyone gets EXACTLY the same opportunities.
I'm ok with helping those who are struggling when we're not.
That's not an agenda against us, it's an agenda for others.
I live my life that way.
 

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My NRL team has had club officials told by NRL officials that they wished that we would just 'wither on the vine' because they would rather give our license to another club. We get 2-3 free to air games per year which starves us of exposure and limits sponsorship potential as a result. Compare that to the Broncos who play on free to air almost every single week in prime time slots (Thursday and Friday nights predominantly). If you think that sporting codes don't play favourites or cater to certain clubs then you are naive. If you think we get a fair treatment at the hands of the AFL compared to Sydney, GWS, Gold Coast, Geelong, Carlton, Essendon, Collingwood and Richmond - then good luck to you. I see it very differently. The AFL is nice enough to take our money but when it comes to getting something back in our fixture they are nowhere to be seen.
Not sure Geelong get treated better then us. They just have a favourable stadium and are advantaged given they are a regional club in a swing area (politically that is)

They do have draw backs though.

Their membership nor their support has grown during their successful period (having a small stadium is probably to blame) and they have a revenue problem.

If you’re going to grow the club accessibility is hugely important (which is what killed us at Princes Park in the 70s)

Last year their CEO came out and claimed that they can’t financially afford to bottom out.

Let’s just see where they end up this year, on the field they have a bit of a Essendon 2002-04 vibe about them (jump out of the blocks but fade big time)
 
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Not sure Geelong get treated better then us. They just have a favourable stadium and are advantaged given they are a regional club in a swing area (politically that is)

They do have draw backs though.

Their membership nor their support has grown during their successful period (having a small stadium is probably to blame) and they have a revenue problem.

If you’re going to grow the club accessibility is hugely important (which is what killed us at Princes Park in the 70s)

Last year their CEO came out and claimed that they can’t financially afford to bottom out.

Let’s just see where they end up this year, on the field they have a bit of a Essendon 2002-04 vibe about them (jump out of the blocks but fade big time)
Geelong at the judiciary are quite well looked after. They do moan about home finals at the G - but the financial advantages to having 80,000 at your final vs 30,000 would certainly make up for the tears of their supporters having to brave the Princess Freeway.
 

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Geelong at the judiciary are quite well looked after. They do moan about home finals at the G - but the financial advantages to having 80,000 at your final vs 30,000 would certainly make up for the tears of their supporters having to brave the Princess Freeway.
They do have a point about home finals though...

Apart from Hawthorn, Collingwood and Richmond their MCG finals attendances have been very ordinary for a decade or more
 
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They do have a point about home finals though...

Apart from Hawthorn, Collingwood and Richmond their MCG finals attendances have been very ordinary for a decade or more
Their last home finals not against those sides were against Sydney and North and drew crowds of ~71,000 and ~66,000. That's more than double for their little suburban stadium - and double the gate takings. It's not the AFL's fault that Geelong can't win when it matters.
 
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...now has supporters on here piss on other clubs struggling to make their way, whose memberships are far fewer than ours, who need equalization to survive.

We needed it too sunshine.
We didn't do it ALL on our own, we had support from other clubs to do the things that got us here, and it isn't too bloody much to support the AFL in making it a healthy competition for all, even if that means putting in more that we get out.
I am interested in some of the statements you made.

Can you explain what this support looked like - how much of it was financial (or are you referring to zoning) and how long it lasted because you have admitted we got sucked dry by Carlton and there was no financial assistance from the league - even when they wanted us to merge. Remember, we got off the canvas with our own resources and they kicked us out of Waverley.

Hawthorn has more than paid its way with finances and growing the game for the last number of decades including so many senior coaches and administrators that even AFL HQ has happily taken. The club wears it as a badge of honour and most of us do, but there hasn't been a brass razoo for any of it despite the financial resources invested by the club on the individual's development. Yes most clubs contribute in this manner too but none more so than Hawthorn.

In the most recent decade (the most financial in the history of the game in which the league had ample resources to fund everything, even two basket cases in addition to the lower resourced clubs), Hawthorn has financially contributed greater taxes than the big 4 despite them receiving preferential fixturing EVERY year. Why is that when they share the gate? External profits of a club are now part of equalization (which is required as a principle) but it shouldn't be targetted because of a Club's onfield success.

After 30+ years of expansion the Swans are still heavily reliant on the AFL for its existence, and a few upcoming years of finishing lower on the ladder will prove this further. The frustration is not with the fact that the AFL directly assists other lesser clubs or the expansion clubs, its the targetted treatment of our Club. You say every club believes this and that is true. But how many of them can provide some sordid facts like having 7 of the first 9 games of a season played at the graveyard timeslot of 3.20 on a Sunday/Monday (all random I'm sure) or having a RANDOM fixture somehow require a Club to play all of the previous year's finalists in the first 7 weeks of the following season. These things are unique for a reason. And before Hawthorn ventured into Tassie no club was willing to go there consistently, and that State saw no live AFL games on a regular basis. Hawthorn made it successful and now the league wants to cash in and push us out. They gave North the NGA region because ???

Yes I too would be sick of a club if they were as good/successful over such a long them as the Hawks, but you can't handicap unfairly, or if you are, call it for what it is?
 
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I am interested in some of the statements you made.

Can you explain what this support looked like - how much of it was financial (or are you referring to zoning) and how long it lasted because you have admitted we got sucked dry by Carlton and there was no financial assistance from the league - even when they wanted us to merge. Remember, we got off the canvas with our own resources and they kicked us out of Waverley.

Hawthorn has more than paid its way with finances and growing the game for the last number of decades including so many senior coaches and administrators that even AFL HQ has happily taken. The club wears it as a badge of honour and most of us do, but there hasn't been a brass razoo for any of it despite the financial resources invested by the club on the individual's development. Yes most clubs contribute in this manner too but none more so than Hawthorn.

In the most recent decade (the most financial in the history of the game in which the league had ample resources to fund everything, even two basket cases in addition to the lower resourced clubs), Hawthorn has financially contributed greater taxes than the big 4 despite them receiving preferential fixturing EVERY year. Why is that when they share the gate? External profits of a club are now part of equalization (which is required as a principle) but it shouldn't be targetted because of a Club's onfield success.

After 30+ years of expansion the Swans are still heavily reliant on the AFL for its existence, and a few upcoming years of finishing lower on the ladder will prove this further. The frustration is not with the fact that the AFL directly assists other lesser clubs or the expansion clubs, its the targetted treatment of our Club. You say every club believes this and that is true. But how many of them can provide some sordid facts like having 7 of the first 9 games of a season played at the graveyard timeslot of 3.20 on a Sunday/Monday (all random I'm sure) or having a RANDOM fixture somehow require a Club to play all of the previous year's finalists in the first 7 weeks of the following season. These things are unique for a reason. And before Hawthorn ventured into Tassie no club was willing to go there consistently, and that State saw no live AFL games on a regular basis. Hawthorn made it successful and now the league wants to cash in and push us out. They gave North the NGA region because ???

Yes I too would be sick of a club if they were as good/successful over such a long them as the Hawks, but you can't handicap unfairly, or if you are, call it for what it is?
We just see the story so differently it's not really worth debating.
So just finish me off with....
Why would the AFL want to purposely target our club? When did they hatch the plan to do us in, and how have they managed to maintain a coterie of willing villains over these many years to promote this sordid vision with constant turnover and such assorted personnel. Do they take a special oath as they enter their jobs?
How is it, with all the Hawthorn people we've seeded the AFL organization with, that they have so despised us (I assume we ruined they're lives while they were with us???) - so very deeply as to attempt over several decades to do whatever they can to bring us ruin?
Especially with our growing membership that brings viewers and dollars to the greater competition? I mean, to kill the cow that has given them sooooo much seems extraordinary? Surely they would want to keep us fattened so as to keep their tills overflowing?
Why just us? What was our crime that we are now paying for?

I look forward to hearing the rationale that must underpin these conspiracy theories, for they populate many minds here on the forum.
 

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We just see the story so differently it's not really worth debating.
So just finish me off with....
Why would the AFL want to purposely target our club? When did they hatch the plan to do us in, and how have they managed to maintain a coterie of willing villains over these many years to promote this sordid vision with constant turnover and such assorted personnel. Do they take a special oath as they enter their jobs?
How is it, with all the Hawthorn people we've seeded the AFL organization with, that they have so despised us (I assume we ruined they're lives while they were with us???) - so very deeply as to attempt over several decades to do whatever they can to bring us ruin?
Especially with our growing membership that brings viewers and dollars to the greater competition? I mean, to kill the cow that has given them sooooo much seems extraordinary? Surely they would want to keep us fattened so as to keep their tills overflowing?
Why just us? What was our crime that we are now paying for?

I look forward to hearing the rationale that must underpin these conspiracy theories, for they populate many minds here on the forum.
The AFL want us out of Tassie.

This is not a secret. They have been quite public about the fact that they want one team in Tassie and it isn't us. They gave North the AFLW license based on them playing games split between Vic and Tassie.

They want to control who plays in Tassie, they want us out so they can work on pushing North down there as the Tassie team, they don't want a north/south split.

If they can't get North to go there they might form a team or relocate Gold Coast etc, but we are in opposition with headquarters on Tassie.

That has repercussions, directly and indirectly. Not getting our AFLW license was one, getting less of a hearing about our fixture requests from the AFL is another.

They are quite capable of handing us a fixture that costs us money, they did it this year, I'm sure they have or will make suggestions on how we could improve our fixture next year.

If you think they don't exert pressure on our club then you haven't been paying attention to how they do business.

Now I'm not saying we are alone in this, we aren't the only club they are trying to force to do what they want, one issue we have is that from a broadcaster and match day perspective we don't have as much drawing power as some of the other clubs.

Collingwood fight with the AFL all the time, and publicly, but they are just too big a cash cow to really punish via the fixture, we are not.
 
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