Opinion Jeff Kennett News, Media etc.

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flinchfree

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Not sure if it's panic, but more as observation and surprise.
Fairly sure Jeff said his last term was about finding his replacement, more than anything else.
If that is being seen as problematic, it's worth discussing I reckon.
We were given a little inside peek by a poster as to how things are being assessed internally, of course you can choose to completely ignore. If you don't refute it out of hand, then it's more than a little interesting to me.
Or not, if it's not your cup of tea.
 

Mississippi

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There are a number of issues right now that require consideration and action.

1 if the costs have blown out from around $50m to $150m, then that's a real problem. I can imagine 17 other clubs would be quite hostile to HFC getting special treatment from the AFL and state government to fund a major proportion of this development.

2 Tasmania. Our stake in games at Launceston is overrated and oversold and always has been. OK we have 10,000 or so Tassie members, but we get around 10,000 to 12,000 people attending those games. And the Tassie government takes the gate receipts anyway as part of its sponsorship agreement. Imagine if instead of those 4 Launceston games, we attracted, say, 30,000 per game to 4 additional MCG games which we would host. We would get more revenue, not just from gate receipts but also from sponsorships, marketing, coterie and more Victoria members given that they'd be offered another 4 games in Melbourne.
I've asked questions in the past about the financial reality of the Tassie deal but never had a proper response (which automatically makes you suspicious when there's a failure to disclose). It has always been promoted as a financial windfall for the club, but I'd love to see proof of that. 10,000 Tassie members is not a windfall if it means we've sacrificed 4 additional games at the MCG with all the advantages those games offer.

3 We were told, as part of the original Waverley deal, that we paid $1 (one dollar) for a hugely valuable asset (which we then had to spend money for a refit) that would enable us to cash in when appropriate in the future. Well the future's almost upon us. Sadly the stand is heritage protected, but what advice can the club give its members about the value of the Waverley asset (which we own?) and the means of realizing that asset?

4 I absolutely refuse to believe that there is not an appropriate president who can take over from Kennett. And I didn't believe that was the case last time when Kennett (reluctantly) accepted another term as president, contrary to his own edict, because a suitable replacement couldn't be found. We are a footy club, and an extremely successful one, not a leper colony.

Interesting times ahead - by no means panic stations - but there are clearly a few minefields to encounter.
 
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Beandip

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Would be pretty surprised if Chris would leave his business empire for the Club President gig, which I think is small potatoes by comparison; also he's based in Sydney?
 

Lickmesocks

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There are a number of issues right now that require consideration and action.

1 if the costs have blown out from around $50m to $150m, then that's a real problem. I can imagine 17 other clubs would be quite hostile to HFC getting special treatment from the AFL and state government to fund a major proportion of this development.

2 Tasmania. Our stake in games at Launceston is overrated and oversold and always has been. OK we have 10,000 or so Tassie members, but we get around 10,000 to 12,000 people attending those games. And the Tassie government takes the gate receipts anyway as part of its sponsorship agreement. Imagine if instead of those 4 Launceston games, we attracted, say, 30,000 per game to 4 additional MCG games which we would host. We would get more revenue, not just from gate receipts but also from sponsorships, marketing, coterie and more Victoria members given that they'd be offered another 4 games in Melbourne.
I've asked questions in the past about the financial reality of the Tassie deal but never had a proper response (which automatically makes you suspicious when there's a failure to disclose). It has always been promoted as a financial windfall for the club, but I'd love to see proof of that. 10,000 Tassie members is not a windfall if it means we've sacrificed 4 additional games at the MCG with all the advantages those games offer.

3 We were told, as part of the original Waverley deal, that we paid $1 (one dollar) for a hugely valuable asset (which we then had to spend money for a refit) that would enable us to cash in when appropriate in the future. Well the future's almost upon us. Sadly the stand is heritage protected, but what advice can the club give its members about the value of the Waverley asset (which we own?) and the means of realizing that asset?

4 I absolutely refuse to believe that there is not an appropriate president who can take over from Kennett. And I didn't believe that was the case last time when Kennett (reluctantly) accepted another term as president, contrary to his own edict, because a suitable replacement couldn't be found. We are a footy club, and an extremely successful one, not a leper colony.

Interesting times ahead - by no means panic stations - but there are clearly a few minefields to encounter.
The Tassie deal provides us with 2 million cash per year to play 4 games.

Recouping 500k per game is a massive ask if we were to leave Tassie when you consider the games might be against interstate clubs that wound only draw 25k anyway at the G and have very little coterie/corporate interest.
 

Mississippi

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The Tassie deal provides us with 2 million cash per year to play 4 games.

Recouping 500k per game is a massive ask if we were to leave Tassie when you consider the games might be against interstate clubs that wound only draw 25k anyway at the G and have very little coterie/corporate interest.
Not necessarily a massive ask when you consider all aspects. Take into account gate receipts (which we don’t get in Tassie), more Victorian members, corporate returns, more sponsorship money out of Victoria, and other aspects. Don’t forget we now command a much bigger spectator audience in Melbourne then we did when we first struck the Tassie deal 15 or so years ago.

Aside from that there’s something inherently wrong when one of the major Australian football clubs plays a quarter of its season in a country town on a big island at a ground that has a capacity of around 20,000 when only 10,000 or 12,000 bother to turn up to watch (and a great proprotion of them have gone to the trouble to fly in from the mainland to attend).

The other furphy is the 10,000 Tasmanian members. That’s just smoke and mirrors. I’m a Tasmanian member - never lived there in my life. Same goes for other posters on this forum - all living in Melbourne. We’re Tasmanian members so we can get a reserve seat at the ground. We’d all prefer to watch our team play at the best stadium in the country with 20,000, 30,000 or 40,000 members and other supporters.

in saying that, I don’t really mind the Tasmanian venture in one sense - I like going there once or twice a year (already booked my flight and hotel for Hawks v Port in May). My point is merely that I’d just like to see how the figures really stack up because I think it’s been hugely oversold and over-stated.

And if we’re facing a significant shortfall of $$ 20 or 30 million or more or less over the next 5 years or so, then perhaps we’ll better have a look at how financially successful the Tassie business plan is - when compared to more games at the MCG.
 

Lickmesocks

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Not necessarily a massive ask when you consider all aspects. Take into account gate receipts (which we don’t get in Tassie), more Victorian members, corporate returns, more sponsorship money out of Victoria, and other aspects. Don’t forget we now command a much bigger spectator audience in Melbourne then we did when we first struck the Tassie deal 15 or so years ago.

Aside from that there’s something inherently wrong when one of the major Australian football clubs plays a quarter of its season in a country town on a big island at a ground that has a capacity of around 20,000 when only 10,000 or 12,000 bother to turn up to watch (and a great proprotion of them have gone to the trouble to fly in from the mainland to attend).

The other furphy is the 10,000 Tasmanian members. That’s just smoke and mirrors. I’m a Tasmanian member - never lived there in my life. Same goes for other posters on this forum - all living in Melbourne. We’re Tasmanian members so we can get a reserve seat at the ground. We’d all prefer to watch our team play at the best stadium in the country with 20,000, 30,000 or 40,000 members and other supporters.

in saying that, I don’t really mind the Tasmanian venture in one sense - I like going there once or twice a year (already booked my flight and hotel for Hawks v Port in May). My point is merely that I’d just like to see how the figures really stack up because I think it’s been hugely oversold and over-stated.

And if we’re facing a significant shortfall of $$ 20 or 30 million or more or less over the next 5 years or so, then perhaps we’ll better have a look at how financially successful the Tassie business plan is - when compared to more games at the MCG.

Dont forget the night we played GWS, two and a dog turned up at the G in fact the dog was so cold even he left before qtr time.

GWS, Suns and even Port at the G in the middle of winter at the G would probably cost us money if 25k is the bench mark to make a dollar.
 

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Hawkk

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Dont forget the night we played GWS, two and a dog turned up at the G in fact the dog was so cold even he left before qtr time.

GWS, Suns and even Port at the G in the middle of winter at the G would probably cost us money if 25k is the bench mark to make a dollar.
That was a once off fixture and had its own mitigating circumstances

I addressed the Tasmanian drawing issue in the below post on another thread

Well actually they weren’t so myth debunked.

Hawthorn was debt free by 1999, had one of the largest Melb based memberships in Victoria by the time they moved games in 2001 and had made 10 consecutive profits and moved into Waverley by the time they stitched up the infamous 7/4 deal.

That deal was signed of course to make up the shortfall in games when the Saints left, who themselves took the NZ market from Hawthorn and butchered that too but that’s by the by.

Hawthorn themselves now admit that it is line ball whether they make more money extending the Tasmanian deal or bringing the games back to Melbourne (according to the Wilson article) so another myth debunked

If you look at the opponents Hawthorn play in Tasmania, the corresponding fixtures drew the following attendances for Melbourne based Hawthorn home games...

Fremantle x 6 games in Tasmania (2 games in Melbourne inc 43,583, 31,925)
GWS x 2 games in Tasmania (3 games in Melbourne inc 14,858, 17,906, 26,805)
Gold Coast x 5 games in Tasmania (3 games in Melbourne inc 31,331, 27,532, 28,011)
Brisbane x 10 games in Tasmania (2 games in Melbourne inc 35,492, 39,007)
Port Adelaide x 5 games in Tasmania (4 games in Melbourne inc 28,657, 27,532, 21,287, 33,527)
Adelaide x 2 in Tasmania (5 games in Melbourne inc 26,693, 37,470, 45,781, 33,524, 32,583)
West Coast x 3 games in Tasmania (6 games in Melbourne inc 31,892, 28,011, 42,977, 32,587, 50,023, 29,138)
Carlton x 2 games in Tasmania (2 games in Melbourne inc 33,182, 69,814)
St Kilda x 4 games in Tasmania (3 games in Melbourne inc 32,924, 42,453, 36,069)
W Bulldogs x 4 games in Tasmania (5 games in Melbourne inc 39,892, 48,080, 42,198, 47,474, 31,982)
N Melbourne x 5 games in Tasmania (4 games in Melbourne inc 36,174, 50,657, 42,218, 42,508)
Sydney x 1 game in Tasmania (9 games in Melbourne inc 48,398, 49,527, 44,484, 36,007, 54,894, 72,760, 63,319, 61,552, 52,181, 32,784)
Geelong x 1 game in Tasmania (10 games in Melbourne inc 69,584, 68,628, 78,578, 65,235, 76,300, 72,254, 73,584, 62,360, 59,598, 66,346)

Hawthorn pushing only low drawing games to Tasmania is a bit of a myth. If you look at games drawn in Melbourne (and Hawthorn has played every club in Melbourne based home games)

Geelong - 69,350 (1 game in Tasmania)
Sydney - 51,587 (1 game in Tasmania)
Carlton - 51,537 (2 games in Tasmania)
N Melbourne - 42,860 (5 games in Tasmania
W Bulldogs - 42,028 (4 games in Tasmania)
Fremantle - 37,754 (6 games in Tasmania)
Brisbane - 37,259 (10 games in Tasmania)
St Kilda - 37,149 (4 games in Tasmania)
West Coast - 35,783 (3 games in Tasmania)
Adelaide - 35,274 (5 games in Tasmania)
Gold Coast - 28,958 (5 games in Tasmania)
Port Adelaide - 27,752 (5 games in Tasmania
GWS - 19,898 (2 games in Tasmania)

There is a myth that Hawthorn have dumped their low drawing games in Tasmania. This has been a myth, the spread of home games is relatively even between Melbourne and York Park.

The notable exception is Brisbane which is bizarre (as the two games in Melbourne back in 2007 and 2012 both drew 35k plus)

Another myth is that these games would by and large be lost making games in Melbourne. Aside from the GWS fixtures the average across all opponents would be break even or profit drawing in Melbourne. In fact games against Geel, Syd, Carl, NM, WB, BL, St K and even WC and Adel would be money spinners in Melbourne.

On the numbers Fremantle would be too but I won’t be so cheeky to suggest that (the GF reply helped but the other fixture it should be noted did draw 32,000 in 2011)

I think the Tasmanian and Hawthorn relationship has run its course. Back in 2002-06 it was fantastic as it gave Tasmanian’s exposure to AFL football and Hawthorn a profit centre for games that drew 15,000 to 25,000. These were often scheduled at Docklands which was a terrible outcome for the club

Now that these games draw 27,000 to 37,000 in Melbourne (PA, GC, Adel, WC, Fremantle), increasingly at Docklands and with changes to stadium deal economics that profit centre is not as needed as it was in 2002
If you look at all games we have played in Tasmania v equivalent home and away games at the MCG and Docklands all average games (save GWS) against low drawing non Victorian games have drawn between 27,000 and 37,000 in Melbourne...

Geelong - 69,350 (1 game in Tasmania)
Sydney - 51,587 (1 game in Tasmania)
Carlton - 51,537 (2 games in Tasmania)
N Melbourne - 42,860 (5 games in Tasmania
W Bulldogs - 42,028 (4 games in Tasmania)
Fremantle - 37,754 (6 games in Tasmania)
Brisbane - 37,259 (10 games in Tasmania)
St Kilda - 37,149 (4 games in Tasmania)
West Coast - 35,783 (3 games in Tasmania)
Adelaide - 35,274 (5 games in Tasmania)
Gold Coast - 28,958 (5 games in Tasmania)
Port Adelaide - 27,752 (5 games in Tasmania
GWS - 19,898 (2 games in Tasmania)

I think there is a misconception that our crowds in Melbourne are lower then what they are.

Whether that offsets the Tasmanian games no one on this thread can answer but certainly a return to Melbourne would yield greater revenue from Hawthorn’s Melbourne based memberships
 

Mississippi

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9k members as well. Add another $2m in membership fees to the Tassie total. Without those members Hawthorn doesn't make a profit. Also merch.
Except 2,000 or 3,000 of those 9,000 members (including me) are traditional Hawthorn members who live in Melbourne (or Victoria) and who are not "Tasmanian members"!! It sounds good "9,000 Tasmanian members" but it just ain't true.

Deduct those "Melbourne" Tasmanian members and you get closer to, say, 6,000 members. Then deduct the freebies and sweetheart membership deals. For example, the Launceston Country Club Casino has a whole wad of Hawthorn memberships which they hand out to the high rollers (if there's such a thing in Tasmania). I'm sure those memberships are gifted or given at significant discount.

The point I'm making is that there's a lot of smoke and mirrors distorting the Tasmania thing. I'd just like to see a full disclosure on the viability and business case supporting the Tasmanian venture - as compared to 4 more games at the MCG averaging crowds of 25,000 to 30,000 together with the greater Victorian membership numbers 4 more games would attract and the greater sponsorship and marketing revenue that would attach to it also.

To me playing 1/3rd of all our home games before a crowd of around 10,000 people (away from the best stadium in Australia) doesn't make sense. Or ifd it does, I'd love the board to justify it by disclosing the complete business plan.
 

Sixpence

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Except 2,000 or 3,000 of those 9,000 members (including me) are traditional Hawthorn members who live in Melbourne (or Victoria) and who are not "Tasmanian members"!! It sounds good "9,000 Tasmanian members" but it just ain't true.
I'm a bit lost here, why would you or others living in Melbourne be considered a Tasmanian member?
 

Mississippi

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I'm a bit lost here, why would you or others living in Melbourne be considered a Tasmanian member?
Simple
We don't need our HFC membership to go to games at the MCG - we're MCC members or AFL members so we get admission on that basis.

But we join as HFC Tasmanian members in order to get a reserved designated seat in the grand stand (because we like a weekend in Launceston a couple of times a year). Our HFC Tasmanian membership allots us specific numbered seats in the grandstand.
There are 5 or 6 of us (all long standing Hawthorn members, all living in Melbourne) who are Tasmanian members precisely for this reason. In fact the club loses some revenue from us as members because the Tasmanian membership (inc reserved seat) is slightly cheaper than the normal HFC adult membership

But the benefit to the club is that we're all still members.

There are plenty of Hawthorn supporters, sadly, who don't bother to be HFC members at all because they get to the MCG games "free" by virtue of being MCC or AFL members.
 

Sixpence

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Simple
We don't need our HFC membership to go to games at the MCG - we're MCC members or AFL members so we get admission on that basis.

But we join as HFC Tasmanian members in order to get a reserved designated seat in the grand stand (because we like a weekend in Launceston a couple of times a year). Our HFC Tasmanian membership allots us specific numbered seats in the grandstand.
There are 5 or 6 of us (all long standing Hawthorn members, all living in Melbourne) who are Tasmanian members precisely for this reason. In fact the club loses some revenue from us as members because the Tasmanian membership (inc reserved seat) is slightly cheaper than the normal HFC adult membership

But the benefit to the club is that we're all still members.

There are plenty of Hawthorn supporters, sadly, who don't bother to be HFC members at all because they get to the MCG games "free" by virtue of being MCC or AFL members.
I became an AFL member this year with Hawthorn Club support, before that I was a Hawthorn Interstate member. As far I understand, I'm still considered a Hawthorn member. I received a Hawthorn members pack and my scarf number was a continuation of my Interstate membership. I also believe a portion of the membership cost goes towards the club.

Not sure if MCC works the same, but if you had an AFL and a Tassie membership, would that count as two separate members? Or still the same member with two separate membership packages?
 

Mississippi

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I became an AFL member this year with Hawthorn Club support, before that I was a Hawthorn Interstate member. As far I understand, I'm still considered a Hawthorn member. I received a Hawthorn members pack and my scarf number was a continuation of my Interstate membership. I also believe a portion of the membership cost goes towards the club.

Not sure if MCC works the same, but if you had an AFL and a Tassie membership, would that count as two separate members? Or still the same member with two separate membership packages?
Fairly sure in my case, as an MCC member, it's 2 separate memberships - and that's specifically because I've chosen to be a Tasmanian member.

Before I became a proud Tasmanian (one of the 9,000 Tassie / HFC members, residing in South Yarra), I used to have an HFC membership which was linked to my MCC membership.
 
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Hawkk

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9k members as well. Add another $2m in membership fees to the Tassie total. Without those members Hawthorn doesn't make a profit. Also merch.
Honestly if the club can’t hold the majority of those members after 20 years of development the project has been an abject failure

We have what 3,000 to 4,000 members in SEQ alone and we went almost 10 years without a GABBA game
 

Randy Campbell

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Honestly if the club can’t hold the majority of those members after 20 years of development the project has been an abject failure

We have what 3,000 to 4,000 members in SEQ alone and we went almost 10 years without a GABBA game
Sell the 4 games to Optus stadium.
We would get a lot more than 10000 members in WA.
We have never lost a game at Optus stadium.
 

Mississippi

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Sell the 4 games to Optus stadium.
We would get a lot more than 10000 members in WA.
We have never lost a game at Optus stadium.
That a really good point.
A much larger city, and potentially far bigger supporter base and the 2nd best stadium in the country which is triple the size of the UTAS Stadium - that said despite the fact that I'm a de facto Taswegian.
 
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Leeda

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nothing to worry about here... Jeff Kennett... rubble is rubble.. time and tide will ruffle some feathers.. Jeff will not...
 

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