Training Jen's training updates

[DaVe86]

Assuming my stab at their plans was accurate my one wood for the remainder of the season would be Wills to relieve in the ruck and go with more run so Noble would have come in. I had minor concerns that this would be the week that would be exploited, but with Preuss out I would be swinging a late change.

There’s two factors for me with this potential decision:

1. Ball movement has been our biggest struggle in 2019.

2. Chemistry in defence trumps individual ability.

I thought this was a fantastic opportunity to challenge our smalls to improve our ball movement. Having Cox and Grundy long down the line has been too much of a crutch when we get caught in the pocket so I would have gone smaller to have the boys generate more run. I think the second factor is self explanatory.

My 3 wood, and only used in a break in case of emergency situation such as WC or Brisbane dominating Wills, would be Moore forward/ ruck because we know he is a better forward than Roughead and he’s missed enough footy for it not to have a significant impact on defensive chemistry.

Edit: another way to look at it is that the match committee are highly paid professionals whose job is literally to come up with solutions to problems like Cox’s injury and the best they’ve got is something any BigFooty nuffie could come up with on their lunch break? Is that really good enough?

Obviously the option to play Moore as a forward/ruck is one that is not in front of the match committee this week. FWIW, i agree that Moore is the guy I'd be playing forward/ruck if available.

There is only one other option this week on our list to provide relief ruck to Grundy and potentially play forward, and that is Max Lynch. But his form doesn't really warrant it, and playing 2 genuine rucks isn't going to help with our speed at ground level. Roughead is at least a more flexible option.

I really don't think using Wills as a backup ruck is a real option. We seriously need to consider managing Grundy through the next few weeks. We don't want to beat him up having to ruck 95% of the time. He needs to be in peak condition for finals. Sending Rupert Wills against Max Gawn would be catastrophic in my opinion.

The only other option I can see would have been to name Tyson Goldsack and throw him into the ruck, but again that's not going to work.

I think the match committee are making the only logical decision in front of it which is to use Roughead as the back-up ruck (the guy is a premiership ruckman afterall!). I assume he is also going to play forward as well. Again, that strikes me as the only logical decision.

You note that our ball movement has been awful, yet you want us to go with a midget forward line. Small forward lines only work if ball movement is good, because you don't have the bail out kick to a contest. The small forward line worked last week because Gold Coast put no pressure on us. Admittingly, Melbourne isn't the best defensive transition team either...but they at least have a stronger backline on paper and a better midfield, so we aren't going to get as many clearances.

It's a precarious situation, and question marks should be aimed at list management for the fact we have no KPF depth.

I think however the decision this week is the right one based on the cattle we have available. If we don't have anyone to provide a contest up forward, then May and Lever will have a field day intercepting.

I agree chemistry is important. It is my preference to not mess with our defensive structures. But I think the situation is dire enough that the match committee has no choice. The suggestions put forward by you above won't work in my opinion.

 

[DaVe86]

'Tis an interesting debate re the Roughy forward v back

Roughy has been great down back, but if you look at the Dees forwards they have a tall kid in Petty who doesn't weigh 90kgs and then O.McDonald or Frost as defenders who may also be shifted forward.

The Dees dangerous forward players are Fritsch, Petracca, Melksham and even J.Lewis who is playing forward now.

So the question becomes, for the team structure to be effective, do we need that tall target down the line and deep forward that Cox provided, when Cox was out we had Reid playing a similar role. Also noting that DeGoey another regular target is also missing.

I'd be happy for us to try Roughy up forward in the Cox role, as believe he would be able to play that role. We don't desperately need a 200cm KPD against the Dees, so can let Magden take a body and rely on our mid sized defenders to quell the Dees actual dangerous forwards.

But if it ain't working we just go small up forward, but then not sure why we would bring in Magden, he ain't a forward.

I agree with all this.

I probably would have named Goldsack who at least can offer something as a forward, even if it is just defensive pressure. But it seems Goldsack's papers have been stamped now and he isn't really an option unless of a significant emergency.

I think the setup named is the best solution for this week. We probably need a smaller, more versatile defence, against Melbourne anyway. And we can always throw Roughead back if we need to.

The only argument against Roughead moving out of defence is team chemistry. I agree that we are at a time of the year where we need our defence to solidify. That said, this time last year we had a backline of Magden and Murphy, and we still came good for finals. Goldsack played his first game in the elimination final, and Jeremy Howe was struggling big time. We'll be stronger this year with Roughead, Howe and Moore available for finals.

I am happy with Magden's selection because it frees up the option of using Roughead in the ruck and up forward. I believe it is our only genuine option.

 

[Scodog10]

Scodog10 I don't discount the fact they may have been trolling Demons' track watchers.
My best guess is Longmuir would be very loathe to disrupt the back line chemistry.
Magden was the best solution this week IMO and I am happy with the choice.

It’s highly unlikely we go with Scharenberg, Roughead and Madgen down back with Petty as their only recognised tall. On the balance of team selections one of Frost, McDonald and May will swing forward as will Roughead.

DaVe86 I don’t see any scenario where Wills went against Gawn for more than a minute or two of actual game time and it is a strategy not contingent on one weeks success. The flip side to it is also that with no Preuss Grundy will monster any second ruck thrown at him. Swings and roundabouts.

 

[DaVe86]

It’s highly unlikely we go with Scharenberg, Roughead and Madgen down back with Petty as their only recognised tall. On the balance of team selections one of Frost, McDonald and May will swing forward as will Roughead.

DaVe86 I don’t see any scenario where Wills went against Gawn for more than a minute or two of actual game time and it is a strategy not contingent on one weeks success. The flip side to it is also that with no Preuss Grundy will monster any second ruck thrown at him. Swings and roundabouts.

I just think we should be managing Grundy's load a bit at the moment. He needs to be cherry ripe for finals. Your strategy means Grundy is doing 90-95% ruckwork.

I would be a bit more in your corner if we had ever one of De Goey or Stephenson. Both are genuine forward targets. But with our current stock, I think there needs to be a Key tall up there. For me, it's either Lynch or Roughead for this week. Fingers crossed that next week or week after we have Moore also to throw into this mix….or maybe by miracle get Reid going for a 2-3 week burst...which is realistically all he ever manages...but it may be all that is needed.

 

[Scodog10]

I just think we should be managing Grundy's load a bit at the moment. He needs to be cherry ripe for finals. Your strategy means Grundy is doing 90-95% ruckwork.

I would be a bit more in your corner if we had ever one of De Goey or Stephenson. Both are genuine forward targets. But with our current stock, I think there needs to be a Key tall up there. For me, it's either Lynch or Roughead for this week. Fingers crossed that next week or week after we have Moore also to throw into this mix….or maybe by miracle get Reid going for a 2-3 week burst...which is realistically all he ever manages...but it may be all that is needed.

You mean the same workload he’s been under since Witts left that has seen him grow into the most influential big man in the game? Sure I get it if there were outward signs he was fatiguing or against teams that were actively double teaming him, but that’s not the case currently.

Like Roughead down back we know Grundy spending that much time in the ruck works very well for us and is de-loading him to what 80-85% match time really going to be a game changer to freshen him up ahead of a bye in three weeks?

 

[76woodenspooners]

I just think we should be managing Grundy's load a bit at the moment. He needs to be cherry ripe for finals. Your strategy means Grundy is doing 90-95% ruckwork.

I would be a bit more in your corner if we had ever one of De Goey or Stephenson. Both are genuine forward targets. But with our current stock, I think there needs to be a Key tall up there. For me, it's either Lynch or Roughead for this week. Fingers crossed that next week or week after we have Moore also to throw into this mix….or maybe by miracle get Reid going for a 2-3 week burst...which is realistically all he ever manages...but it may be all that is needed.

Maybe one way to manage Grundy’s load better is to not be so safe by playing along the boundary ... our midfield take the game on more by playing through the corridor?

 

[jackcass]

Maybe one way to manage Grundy’s load better is to not be so safe by playing along the boundary ... our midfield take the game on more by playing through the corridor?

Is there a nett benefit either way when comparing boundary contests v running up and down the ground keeping up with fast ball movement? Isn't it just changing wrestling with gut running?

 

[NonPhixion]

Roughy trained up forward.

Fox reporting he will replace Cox up forward.

Thanks for this valuable information

 

[Collingwoodity]

Scodog10 I don't discount the fact they may have been trolling Demons' track watchers.
My best guess is Longmuir would be very loathe to disrupt the back line chemistry.
Magden was the best solution this week IMO and I am happy with the choice.

I am not sure it is a good idea to intentionally train poorly to throw off the 17th placed team when you are one game off top 4. I hope we are focusing on playing our 2018 style rather than playing mindgames.

 

[Collingwoodity]

Is there a nett benefit either way when comparing boundary contests v running up and down the ground keeping up with fast ball movement? Isn't it just changing wrestling with gut running?

I think, without being an expert at all, that Grundy may be more exposed to injuries by way of innocuous contact at a mandatory ruck contest rather than running unopposed.

 

[sr36]

Assuming my stab at their plans was accurate my one wood for the remainder of the season would be Wills to relieve in the ruck and go with more run so Noble would have come in. I had minor concerns that this would be the week that would be exploited, but with Preuss out I would be swinging a late change.

There’s two factors for me with this potential decision:

1. Ball movement has been our biggest struggle in 2019.

2. Chemistry in defence trumps individual ability.

I thought this was a fantastic opportunity to challenge our smalls to improve our ball movement. Having Cox and Grundy long down the line has been too much of a crutch when we get caught in the pocket so I would have gone smaller to have the boys generate more run. I think the second factor is self explanatory.

My 3 wood, and only used in a break in case of emergency situation such as WC or Brisbane dominating Wills, would be Moore forward/ ruck because we know he is a better forward than Roughead and he’s missed enough footy for it not to have a significant impact on defensive chemistry.

Edit: another way to look at it is that the match committee are highly paid professionals whose job is literally to come up with solutions to problems like Cox’s injury and the best they’ve got is something any BigFooty nuffie could come up with on their lunch break? Is that really good enough?

My thoughts precisely. However I think there is already an emergency, so I'd be pulling the Moore 3 wood out of the bag the moment he has his hand up for selection. Settle the defence without him and cross our fingersr in the hope he can contribute to the miracle we need

 

[Good_Old]

What would you do?

WWJD?

 

[Quicky]

WWJD?

Um. No.

 

[Good_Old]

Um. No.

What would Jordan Do?

 

[Sea fog]

It’s highly unlikely we go with Scharenberg, Roughead and Madgen down back with Petty as their only recognised tall. On the balance of team selections one of Frost, McDonald and May will swing forward as will Roughead.

DaVe86 I don’t see any scenario where Wills went against Gawn for more than a minute or two of actual game time and it is a strategy not contingent on one weeks success. The flip side to it is also that with no Preuss Grundy will monster any second ruck thrown at him. Swings and roundabouts.

Sounds like Howe is in doubt.

 

[sr36]

Is there a nett benefit either way when comparing boundary contests v running up and down the ground keeping up with fast ball movement? Isn't it just changing wrestling with gut running?

I'm assuming 76 was referring to the number of contests he has to compete in. Grundy is regularly our kicking target when we go down the line. Then again we've been lightening his load at centre bounces by not kicking many goals...

 

[sr36]

It’s highly unlikely we go with Scharenberg, Roughead and Madgen down back with Petty as their only recognised tall. On the balance of team selections one of Frost, McDonald and May will swing forward as will Roughead.

DaVe86 I don’t see any scenario where Wills went against Gawn for more than a minute or two of actual game time and it is a strategy not contingent on one weeks success. The flip side to it is also that with no Preuss Grundy will monster any second ruck thrown at him. Swings and roundabouts.

Did Gold Coast ever give May a run up forward? Could be pretty dangerous I reckon.

 

[Scodog10]

Sounds like Howe is in doubt.

There you go even more reason to not go ahead with this madness!

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Bucks saying tonight that Wells will not play VFL tomorrow nor the following week because VFL have a bye so he will play VFL in 2 weeks time. So much for having him ready for finals!

 

[Apex36]

Did Gold Coast ever give May a run up forward? Could be pretty dangerous I reckon.

He played his junior footy as a forward iirc.

 

[Thatsmyname]

Bucks saying tonight that Wells will not play VFL tomorrow nor the following week because VFL have a bye so he will play VFL in 2 weeks time. So much for having him ready for finals!

You only need him ready for one game, can you imagine that? he gets us over the line and Gubby looks like a genius

 

[Darkyprotector]

Classy post

Truth hurts

He's excess to needs been a disappointment even prior to injury
We need to stop being romantic

Consider hawthorns list
Great back 6
Developing key forwards
Developing new recruits ( SCULLY wingard) Mitchell comming back maybe hill maybe Patton

You've been around long enough to have lived the pain
We missed the boat last year

 

[35Daicos]

Where's that list

Still working on it

Jesus!! Can't you just drop this nonsense?! You're not winning anything, and not doing yourself any favours at all.

 

[Quicky]

Truth hurts

He's excess to needs been a disappointment even prior to injury
We need to stop being romantic

Consider hawthorns list
Great back 6
Developing key forwards
Developing new recruits ( SCULLY wingard) Mitchell comming back maybe hill maybe Patton

You've been around long enough to have lived the pain
We missed the boat last year

You're entitled to your opinion but the way you expressed it lacks respect for Broomhead. Fair to say I disagree with it and i'm not sure you're considering Broomheads recent VFL form which is really good.

 

[Scodog10]

Did Gold Coast ever give May a run up forward? Could be pretty dangerous I reckon.

They did back in his second and third seasons. I vaguely remember it, but I needed to look at numbers and he went alright. If I was in their shoes and Frost isn’t a late out I’d give it a crack.