Traded Jeremy Cameron [traded w/ 2x 2021 R2 (ESS/GWS) to Geelong for #13, #15, #20 and 2021 R4]

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Lore

Moderator ❀
Dec 14, 2015
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Essendon
And I think we'll draw a line under this here folks. You've had your fun.

From here on out don't be surprised to find yourself with thread ban or infraction points, in particular for playing the man and trolling.

That includes baiting entire supporter groups, dragging discussions off club boards, name calling, troll names, and so on.
 

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CatToTheFuture

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 18, 2018
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You know, the trade in itself wasn't necessarily bad.

We're just enjoying the end results of a great number of Geelong supporters being exceedingly arrogant about only giving 1 pick, or walking Cameron to the draft to take him for nothing. Now there just a ridiculous amount of backpedalling from those statements to try to claim that they 'won' the trade.

You guys are backflipping so fast backwards from your original statements of what the trade would be that you could compete in gymnastics in the Olympics...
If you go to our board the prediction poll at the top has been consistent at to two firsts for Cameron since before we even made an offer. As usual the online debate is hijacked by extremists at either end
 

tvc_hot

Draftee
Jun 20, 2004
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I've actually never seen a club have Pick 10 in their hand, actually decline it, and then somehow trade an even worse hand in.

Geelong gave up pick 13 (~16) and 15 (~19) for Cameron and GWS's future 2nd Round Pick.

On Draft night could you trade 16 and 19 for 11 and a future 2nd? I severely doubt it.

The last part of the Cameron trade is a complete non-event.
Pick 20 (~25) for Essendon's Future 2nd could not been seen as anything more than a nil all draw at best. Most would have Geel ahead. Given you'd much rather pick 25 next year than pick 25 this year.
With the trade that was made, what would the outcome be if Cameron was replaced with compensation pick 10? Ie:

Cameron + FR2 + FR2 for 13 + 15 + 20 + FR4

Compared to

10 + FR2 + FR2 for 13 + 15 + 20 + FR4

So for those that know fair deals in these trades...if you look at the 2nd method, would that be a fair trade?

I truly believed from the beginning, GWS should have taken the compensation pick 10 then do a swap with Geelong. With this, all Geelong have lost really is pick 10.
 
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CatToTheFuture

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 18, 2018
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With the trade that was made, what would the outcome be if Cameron was replaced with compensation pick 10? Ie:

Cameron + FR2 + FR2 for 13 + 15 + 20 + FR4

Compared to

10 + FR2 + FR2 for 13 + 15 + 20 + FR4

So for those that know fair deals in these trades...if you look at the 2nd method, would that be a fair trade?

I truly believed from the beginning, GWS should have taken the compensation pick 10 then do a swap with Geelong. With this, all Geelong have lost really is pick 10.
I think the real thing that matching cost them was Hately. They didn't have enough time to work out a deal or enough trade options at the table and they could have had both. They could have had 11 + 13 + 15 and probably kept a future second while we retain 20 and we rattle that fr2 out of Adelaide instead of gws. The only party worse off would be Adelaide
 

geelong_crazy26

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 13, 2006
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You know, the trade in itself wasn't necessarily bad.

We're just enjoying the end results of a great number of Geelong supporters being exceedingly arrogant about only giving 1 pick, or walking Cameron to the draft to take him for nothing. Now there just a ridiculous amount of backpedalling from those statements to try to claim that they 'won' the trade.

You guys are backflipping so fast backwards from your original statements of what the trade would be that you could compete in gymnastics in the Olympics...
Nobody is backflipping except the GWS recruitment team.

Originally they demanded two first round picks and parfit... Geelong said no. Fans said no

Then they said if its picks it has to be all 3 of our picks. Geelong and fans against that idea.

Then it came down to pick 13 and 15 before they slide down, and an early second rounder. Ok not too bad as its essentially pick 20 being swapped for GWS seconf rounder next year which is early second round so pick 25-30 in a much better draft. Not much complaints with the pick comimg back.

Then wells wanted to give GWS pick 20 in the deal also to package it up for essendons future second rounder next year whicg will look like pick 26 out in weak draft and pick 24-30 in next years stronger one. A geelong initiative to throw it in.

So in a nutshell geelong didnt want to give up all 3 picks alone and wouldnt have done so. What we got back in return with the picjs next year in a stronger draft was half initiated by wells himself as we preferred it and alot of fans are over the moon about it, including myself as we see it as a draft upgrade.

So no we didnr give up the bounty or sell any farm with this deal, quite the opposite
 

Scotland

TheBrownDog
May 5, 2006
57,559
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Loving the newfound enthusiasm for second round picks and the 2021 draft.

GWS have 10, 13, 15, 20, 29 in this year's draft. Geelong have nothing.

The alternate timeline ("no one ever matches") is GWS have 10 and 11, Geelong have 13, 15, 20 - and Cameron. Spinning the outcome as GWS saving face is.... interesting.

GWS are well placed to trade up in the draft, bid on any academy players or trade into next year's draft. Like Geelong were this time last year. They opted to use two first rounders last year and then trade for Gold Coast's pick this year, then traded in Cameron and some future second round picks this year. GWS aren't obliged to use all their picks this year. My team for example has basically no picks and if it gets to pick 15 or something and there's someone on the board we'd really like then I wouldn't be surprised if we did some kind of 2020/2021 swap. Etc.
 

Orange Agent

Premiership Player
Oct 12, 2016
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Loving the newfound enthusiasm for second round picks and the 2021 draft.

GWS have 10, 13, 15, 20, 29 in this year's draft. Geelong have nothing.

The alternate timeline ("no one ever matches") is GWS have 10 and 11, Geelong have 13, 15, 20 - and Cameron. Spinning the outcome as GWS saving face is.... interesting.

GWS are well placed to trade up in the draft, bid on any academy players or trade into next year's draft. Like Geelong were this time last year. They opted to use two first rounders last year and then trade for Gold Coast's pick this year, then traded in Cameron and some future second round picks this year. GWS aren't obliged to use all their picks this year. My team for example has basically no picks and if it gets to pick 15 or something and there's someone on the board we'd really like then I wouldn't be surprised if we did some kind of 2020/2021 swap. Etc.
No youth coming in and some already wanting out. In 2 years time Mitch Duncan running a lone hand midfield role delivering to the most invisible number 1 fwd in the comp on most likely a back ended $1.5mil a year contract. Nailed it Wellsy.
 

iameviljez

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Instead, the Cats chose to package it with the other two first round picks and take back two future second round selections to be used in next year’s draft when there is far greater clarity around the talent pool
We also get a little tied up in the idea of 1st round/2nd round. The reality is that pick 20 is a lot closer to wherever Essendon's future second sits, than it is to the middle of the first round.
 

Scotland

TheBrownDog
May 5, 2006
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Geelong will end up with two picks somewhere in the range of 25-45.

I wouldn't be banking on getting 19 and 20 and nothing pushing them down the order.
 

calder_daddy

Premiership Player
Sep 11, 2006
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No youth coming in and some already wanting out. In 2 years time Mitch Duncan running a lone hand midfield role delivering to the most invisible number 1 fwd in the comp on most likely a back ended $1.5mil a year contract. Nailed it Wellsy.
If I was to choose someone to be on 1.5 mill a year between JC and Cogs I know who the entire competition would pick.
Enjoy your irrelevant peasant club

1605354250286.gif
 

BigCat1

Premiership Player
Apr 22, 2003
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Geelong will end up with two picks somewhere in the range of 25-45.

I wouldn't be banking on getting 19 and 20 and nothing pushing them down the order.
23-36.

I also love how you’re mashing in the Caldwell trade haul etc talking up the trade like that has anything to do with Geelong.

Just stick to the facts of the trade please of your posting. 16 and a pick slide of 15 picks worst case
 

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Boxhead_31

Rompinwins is my Chauffeur
Oct 12, 2007
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Loving the newfound enthusiasm for second round picks and the 2021 draft.

GWS have 10, 13, 15, 20, 29 in this year's draft. Geelong have nothing.

The alternate timeline ("no one ever matches") is GWS have 10 and 11, Geelong have 13, 15, 20 - and Cameron. Spinning the outcome as GWS saving face is.... interesting.

GWS are well placed to trade up in the draft, bid on any academy players or trade into next year's draft. Like Geelong were this time last year. They opted to use two first rounders last year and then trade for Gold Coast's pick this year, then traded in Cameron and some future second round picks this year. GWS aren't obliged to use all their picks this year. My team for example has basically no picks and if it gets to pick 15 or something and there's someone on the board we'd really like then I wouldn't be surprised if we did some kind of 2020/2021 swap. Etc.
Couldn’t Geelong do the same with their 2021 draft assets?
 

Tbonefreo

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 13, 2013
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Just to clear up some misinformation, and I really don't plan on getting into it with others as trade period is done and dusted, this is from the horse's mouth - Stephen Wells:

“We were never going to give up 3 first round picks for Jeremy alone. We always understood that wed have to give up probably 2, so we accepted that.
“Once it became clear that the Giants were keen on the third first round pick, we looked at a deal that would help them and help us.
“To have those two second round picks and give us a chance in next year’s draft is something we’re very happy with.”


It is understood Geelong had the option of retaining pick 20, but believed that selection could be marked down to about 25 by draft night.

Instead, the Cats chose to package it with the other two first round picks and take back two future second round selections to be used in next year’s draft when there is far greater clarity around the talent pool

**************************

Basically as Wells stated this morning, the original deal was 13 & 15 with a Future 2nd (GWS) coming back. GWS wanted our Pick 20 this year, so we gave them that in exchange for Essendon's Future 2nd (this is why the deal couldn't be done until the Caldwell deal went through - right at the end).

In isolation they were two separate deals, but GWS got the 'line in the sand' optics they wanted, we got the player and future picks we wanted, and the media got the headlines and narrative they wanted. Everyone got something in the end.

Basically, Deal 1 (separate from Caldwell) was this:

GWS OUT: Cameron, Future 2nd (GWS)
GWS IN: Pick 13,15, Future 4th (Geelong)

And Deal 2 was this:

GWS OUT: Future 2nd (Essendon)
GWS IN: Pick 20

I'm sure some will agree, and some will call me delusional, but as it stands now we're either winners, or we're pushovers - which means we're not the 'awful extortionist hypocritical club', that we were labelled before and during trade period.

Either way, I'm happy, as I thought we'd be giving up 13, 15 & a Future 2nd, with a Future 3rd coming back. We ended up doing better than that in the end.

Have at me :)
I think its a bloody good trade for Geelong. I was surprised that they received 2x 2nd rounders with Cameron. A damn good deal for them
 

Shadow89

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 20, 2018
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No youth coming in and some already wanting out. In 2 years time Mitch Duncan running a lone hand midfield role delivering to the most invisible number 1 fwd in the comp on most likely a back ended $1.5mil a year contract. Nailed it Wellsy.
I guess 28 year old AA calibre mids in Sam Menegola and Cam Guthrie will be just off fishing then?

Not to mention 22 year old Brandan Parfitt who you guys couldn't get enough of, and now apparently doesn't even warrant a mention.

There's also a ready to go big bodied mid who's a first round draft pick waiting in the wings - Cooper Stephens.

We'll also have 4 picks inside the Top 40 next year, and two trade/FA periods to fill any gaps.

Oh and that fella Danger is contracted 'til 2024... so yeah...

Odd comment.
 

Shadow89

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 20, 2018
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Loving the newfound enthusiasm for second round picks and the 2021 draft.

GWS have 10, 13, 15, 20, 29 in this year's draft. Geelong have nothing.

The alternate timeline ("no one ever matches") is GWS have 10 and 11, Geelong have 13, 15, 20 - and Cameron. Spinning the outcome as GWS saving face is.... interesting.

GWS are well placed to trade up in the draft, bid on any academy players or trade into next year's draft. Like Geelong were this time last year. They opted to use two first rounders last year and then trade for Gold Coast's pick this year, then traded in Cameron and some future second round picks this year. GWS aren't obliged to use all their picks this year. My team for example has basically no picks and if it gets to pick 15 or something and there's someone on the board we'd really like then I wouldn't be surprised if we did some kind of 2020/2021 swap. Etc.
Interesting that you say 'my team has no picks', and reference to 2021, but then fail to mention that we can do the exact same thing?

Also, there won't be any 'bids' in the first round next year, as the AFL has deemed. There'll be a couple of compo picks and maybe a bid or two in the second round, but if ladder positions remain the same, both of those picks will still be in the Top 30.

Finally, I have to ask, if the trade had of been simply 13, 15 & a Future 4th with Cameron and a Future 2nd (GWS) coming back to us, would you have deemed that a good trade? Legitimate question. Because that's what the trade would have been had GWS not got the other second rounder for Caldwell, and we would have just had to stick to the original trade (that's what the hold up was). Wells stated as much, as did McCartney in his interview post-trade.

We opted out of this draft to get Essendon's Future 2nd - who we gambled would most likely be Bottom 6 next year - so around Pick 25. If we had just kept Pick 20, would you then have said that we did better, given that Pick 20 will be around the same this year?

3 first round picks is what McCartney said the club wanted, so they got that out of us because Wells opted to give that up to trade into what he sees as a stronger draft next year. We have no idea if he'll be right or not, but more exposed form and lack of kids getting drafted this year due to list size uncertainty, means next year will probably be a better year to have a number of picks (we have 6 as it stands right now). That's from the horse's mouth - not speculation.

It's fine if you disagree on the reasoning or the ultimate outcome, but as it stands, we gave up 13, 15 and a Future 4th (Pick 65-70ish) for Cameron and their Future 2nd (Pick 25-35ish). Do you consider that a good or a bad trade? I for one thought we'd be giving them the Future 2nd, not the other way 'round - so I'm not complaining.

The other trade is completely separate and does not factor into the above, as previously explained.
 

Scotland

TheBrownDog
May 5, 2006
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Geelong receives Jeremy Cameron and two future second-round selections (tied to Essendon)

Greater Western Sydney receives three first-round picks (currently No.13, No.15 and No.20) and a future fourth-round selection.

That is literally the trade as listed on afl.com.au.
 

Shadow89

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 20, 2018
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Geelong receives Jeremy Cameron and two future second-round selections (tied to Essendon)

Greater Western Sydney receives three first-round picks (currently No.13, No.15 and No.20) and a future fourth-round selection.

That is literally the trade as listed on afl.com.au.
Lol, so should we have done two separate trades in order to satisfy you, in the final minute of trade period?

Trades like this happen all the time. I'm telling you exactly what Wells and McCartney said, and what the reasoning behind those decisions were. Why do you think that you know more than the actual people who were involved in the process?
 

Shadow89

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 20, 2018
6,385
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I'm just going to post this one last time, and then let those who want to, fight amongst themselves about how much we won/lost this trade. Whatever your position, Cameron is a Cats player for the next 5 years, and we already have 6 picks in the 2021 draft.

You can argue with me all you like, but you can't argue with the guy who actually did the trade.

Peace.

*****************************

"It is understood Geelong had the option of retaining pick 20, but believed that selection could be marked down to about 25 by draft night.

Instead, the Cats chose to package it with the other two first round picks and take back two future second round selections to be used in next year’s draft when there is far greater clarity around the talent pool."


************************

GEELONG is open to using its future picks to buy back into next month’s draft.
But the lure of holding a deep hand for what is expected to be a strong group of youngsters next year is likely to outweigh the short term appeal.

As the haggling finalised late on Thursday for Jeremy Cameron, the Cats were forced to give up all three of their early selections this year but received two second-round choices in 2021, as well as the goal kicker.

Once academy choices muddy the waters in this year’s first round, the picks the GWS Giants secured – 13, 15 and 20 – are likely to be pushed back multiple slots in the order.

Geelong list manager Stephen Wells said given the compromised nature of this season’s draft, next year’s picks – which are tied to GWS and Essendon – could end up being just as valuable.

“In the end depending on where those second-round picks end up we may well have given up two first-round picks for Jeremy Cameron and a second-round pick so I think that’s a great result for us,” he said.


“Once (the Giants) matched the (free agency) bid – which we were very disappointed with but was their right – we always thought it was going to end up costing us two first-round picks.

“By getting two second-round picks back from two sides that finished outside the right this year we think that is a deal that helps strengthen our draft hand for 2021.”


“We were weighing up this year’s draft and that combined with small list sizes and how many picks we have, we decided to invest in next year’s draft,” he said.

“We still might promote rookies (in the draft), we are not even committed to having that pick (51) in the draft this year.

“We have some terrific young players on our list that we are trying to create opportunities for and we are committed to having a good draft hand for 2021, which means we are more likely to bring in young blokes then.”


 

Scotland

TheBrownDog
May 5, 2006
57,559
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Lol, so should we have done two separate trades in order to satisfy you, in the final minute of trade period?

Trades like this happen all the time. I'm telling you exactly what Wells and McCartney said, and what the reasoning behind those decisions were. Why do you think that you know more than the actual people who were involved in the process?
You can spin it any way you want. I have no real interest in what anyone involved or otherwise thinks the trade could've been. It is what it is.

A week ago Geelong had 3 first round picks this year, now they have none. And you have two extra second round picks next year. Wonderful. Get lucky and they might be 19 and 20 before FA compo, F/S, NGA etc. GWS have missed the finals once in 5 years, WADA bans aside Essendon are historically mediocre. You could end up with 23 and 24, and you could end up with 33 and 34.

We have a Future 1st, just like you...
Congratulations? You lot have been banging on about how great the 2021 draft is, so it would be an interesting move to trade back into 2020. If you want to trade out of 2021 and into 2022, great.
 

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