Jeremy Corbyn, former UK Opposition Leader

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Demosthenes

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But they are the ones that were and are actively trying to undermine him from the moment he won the leadership ballot last year. Do you expect him to be loyal to them despite it not being reciprocated?
The bloke was elected basically on a platform of driving Blairism out of the party. Of course they are going to fight back.

Regardless, I'm not blaming anyone specifically. I'm just saying that (for better or worse) it's stupid to think the party could ever unite behind someone so divisive.
 

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Demosthenes

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Basically a form of Third Way politics not entirely dissimilar to that pursued by the Australian Labor Party under Hawke and Keating.
 

Showbags

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The bloke was elected basically on a platform of driving Blairism out of the party. Of course they are going to fight back.

Regardless, I'm not blaming anyone specifically. I'm just saying that (for better or worse) it's stupid to think the party could ever unite behind someone so divisive.

The key word is "elected". He was elected and given a thumping mandate to change the party and move away from Blairite policies.

For the Blairites to not respect that mandate means that they are in the wrong party. Its absolutely gutless that instead of splintering and going off to form the Tory Lite party or whatever, they instead continue to undermine a democratically elected leader (which is basically a big * you to the membership).
 

Demosthenes

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At the end of the day they were elected to their constituencies as well.

They may splinter. Or they may be voted out. But in the meantime you shouldn't expect turkeys to vote for Christmas.
 

Footy Smarts

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Is Owen Smith really the best they could do? He's supposedly a leftie who cares about community and people but was more than happy to earn make big coin as the head of government relations at Pfizer. Hmmm.

He's also shown how he's not a spin master right from his campaign launch. White shirt, no tie, sleeves rolled up with people in the background. Gives a real 'man of the people' vibe.
acfN4uEDXIsLhwkJmdHmaaNba5BOhuFy-mi001WiAa61OijTFdvLf_MQcqjVHM1Af01DdwZQUCheyUO_jZYDM2u2b99nhmvgiV0-9nCYdTCM0U9ggsgfqi4yoVM8rizE6A28_Qv0kGBLGEUGV-8vsZ5BsfeZq5QExMEoNRb2h8Pei31j8RqSVKQhdxoNivAngaz3Mq39JgvL5ooFhZwmP1Xh_0J0lNQTe6or78cVWwKeUtp9jke-5jxsGgEBZVSt6zwCdEkBo2V287a8o1193fIYnD_b1SxDwTh6WZ6qsy7vkG-LK4y_evahWAsjoXfJFos0gg=w466-h315-nc


It's authentic too. Just like these men of the people.

images



images
 

Showbags

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At the end of the day they were elected to their constituencies as well.

They may splinter. Or they may be voted out. But in the meantime you shouldn't expect turkeys to vote for Christmas.

And thats fine. But while they are in the Labour party they should respect the wishes of the membership to have Jeremy Corbyn as leader.

If they cant even support their leader (and are actively trying to sabotage his leadership) then maybe they should leave Labour.

Support doesnt mean agree with every policy. I mean look at Corbyn. He sat on the backbenches for years putting up with New Labour Blairites running the show. He dissented on alot of stuff put forward by his own party but still kept working to ensure Labour's success. If they would prefer Theresa May as PM rather than Corbyn then clearly they are in the wrong party.
 

Bomberboyokay

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Is Owen Smith really the best they could do? He's supposedly a leftie who cares about community and people but was more than happy to earn make big coin as the head of government relations at Pfizer. Hmmm.

He's also shown how he's not a spin master right from his campaign launch. White shirt, no tie, sleeves rolled up with people in the background. Gives a real 'man of the people' vibe.
acfN4uEDXIsLhwkJmdHmaaNba5BOhuFy-mi001WiAa61OijTFdvLf_MQcqjVHM1Af01DdwZQUCheyUO_jZYDM2u2b99nhmvgiV0-9nCYdTCM0U9ggsgfqi4yoVM8rizE6A28_Qv0kGBLGEUGV-8vsZ5BsfeZq5QExMEoNRb2h8Pei31j8RqSVKQhdxoNivAngaz3Mq39JgvL5ooFhZwmP1Xh_0J0lNQTe6or78cVWwKeUtp9jke-5jxsGgEBZVSt6zwCdEkBo2V287a8o1193fIYnD_b1SxDwTh6WZ6qsy7vkG-LK4y_evahWAsjoXfJFos0gg=w466-h315-nc


It's authentic too. Just like these men of the people.

images



images

Best thing Owen Smith has going for him is he officially missed the Blair years.
 

Demosthenes

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And thats fine. But while they are in the Labour party they should respect the wishes of the membership to have Jeremy Corbyn as leader.

If they cant even support their leader (and are actively trying to sabotage his leadership) then maybe they should leave Labour.

Support doesnt mean agree with every policy. I mean look at Corbyn. He sat on the backbenches for years putting up with New Labour Blairites running the show. He dissented on alot of stuff put forward by his own party but still kept working to ensure Labour's success. If they would prefer Theresa May as PM rather than Corbyn then clearly they are in the wrong party.
You could say the same about Corbyn - he shouldn't be sabotaging his own MPs, who were selected and elected with their own mandate.

The 'they started it' stuff is schoolyard bullshit anyway. Bottom line is that there's not really anyone to blame. It's just two factions who both want their party to be something the other guys don't, fighting. One will win and the others will get the arse. Neither has moral high ground, so get over it.
 
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Showbags

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You could say the same about Corbyn - he shouldn't be sabotaging his own MPs, who were selected and elected with their own mandate.

The 'they started it' stuff is schoolyard bullshit anyway. Bottom line is that there's not really anyone to blame. It's just two factions who both want their party to be something the other guys don't, fighting. One will win and the others will get the arse. Neither has moral high ground, so get over it.

They got elected as representatives of their constituencies not as leader of the Labour party. Its not about whether they have a mandate to be in the parliament (clearly they do) but whether they have a mandate to continue to undermine the Labour leader (which they dont).

When you are a member of the Labour party you do everything within your power to help get your party elected (you may have policy differences in some areas but fundamentally you should agree on most things). If you cant even support your own leader then you should leave the party.

The membership has signalled they want the party to go in a different direction. The Blairites might disagree on that direction (which is fine). But by basically sabotaging the party and undermining Corbyn's leadership they are saying we couldnt give a * what the membership wants and our opinion is more important.

The Blairites are to blame, pure and simple. They are the ones who have thrown the toys out of the cot. Corbyn showed a willingness and intention to try to work with them when he first assumed the leadership, and they have s**t all over him constantly. And you want him to show this lot the respect that was never reciprocated?

The only mistake JC made is having the audacity to get elected in the first place.
 

Demosthenes

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The Blairites were preselected by the ALP membership. They have their own mandate from the party's base.

Saying Corbyn wanted to work with them is disingenous; the very nature of his policy positions makes that impossible. Wake up and smell the coffee - or something else brown and sticky. Both sides represent a substantial portion of Labour voters, and neither will tolerate the other.
 

Showbags

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The Blairites were preselected by the ALP membership. They have their own mandate from the party's base.

Saying Corbyn wanted to work with them is disingenous; the very nature of his policy positions makes that impossible. Wake up and smell the coffee - or something else brown and sticky. Both sides represent a substantial portion of Labour voters, and neither will tolerate the other.

Surely being preselected is only a mandate to represent and advocate for the Labour party not to actually direct policy positions.

To try and suggest that each MP by winning preselection had their own little mandate to change the party is silly as preselection battles are about who is a good candidate to represent the party, and are traditionally not about policy and direction of the party unlike leadership contests.

Corbyn's leadership contest victory was so big that he did have a mandate from the rank and file to change the party. The Blairites have since day dot, refused to accept that decision. Which is the sole reason for the schism we are currently seeing.
 

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Demosthenes

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If that's what you want to tell yourself, go ahead. However, it's the mindset of someone who is irredeemably partisan.

The opposing argument is equally valid. Why should the views of elected MPs and the people who voted for and preselected them be disregarded in favour of a leader with fringe views who rode to power on the coattails of the unions?

You are emblematic of the problem - people picking sides and thinking they have some moral high ground where none exists. Labour are burning their own party to the ground, and they deserve it. If they split, they will have destroyed themselves for a generation.

Shame about the British people - with the current pack of jokers in government, they desperately need an Opposition that aren't a complete rabble.
 

Footy Smarts

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The Blairites were preselected by the ALP membership. They have their own mandate from the party's base.

Saying Corbyn wanted to work with them is disingenous; the very nature of his policy positions makes that impossible. Wake up and smell the coffee - or something else brown and sticky. Both sides represent a substantial portion of Labour voters, and neither will tolerate the other.

Except they refuse to actually point to policy differences. Hence we've got a guy running saying "I'm just like Corbyn but I can unite the party".

The fact is this entire business has almost nothing to do with policy and almost everything to do with the attitude that MPs take. Will the Labour party MPs be allowed to continue using parliament as a way to feather their own nests while paying lip-service to their constituents? The fact is Blair and Brown took control of the party and the leaders of the party became very wealthy from their work. This is a battle over whether the Labour party becomes like the Democrats in the US, a plaything of the wealthy elite. While a lot of the party membership disagree on some specifics with Corbyn the most important thing he brings to the party is a re-connection with the grass roots.
 
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If that's what you want to tell yourself, go ahead. However, it's the mindset of someone who is irredeemably partisan.

The opposing argument is equally valid. Why should the views of elected MPs and the people who voted for and preselected them be disregarded in favour of a leader with fringe views who rode to power on the coattails of the unions?

You are emblematic of the problem - people picking sides and thinking they have some moral high ground where none exists. Labour are burning their own party to the ground, and they deserve it. If they split, they will have destroyed themselves for a generation.

Shame about the British people - with the current pack of jokers in government, they desperately need an Opposition that aren't a complete rabble.
You can not refer to Corbyn as having fringe views when he won the leadership so convincingly. His views reflect the majority of the party membership or they would not have elected him.
 

Bomberboyokay

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Corbyn set to be very comfortably reelected Labour leader.

Different year, same result. Jeremy Corbyn is set to win another landslide victory in the Labour leadership election. The long-anticipated Times/YouGov poll puts Corbyn ahead of Owen Smith by 62 per cent to 38 per cent: an even bigger margin of victory than in 2015 (when he won 59.5 per cent).

YouGov, which has called the last two contests correctly, shows Corbyn leading comfortably among all three groups: party members (52-40), registered supporters (70-25) and affiliated supporters (54-33).

http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...-win-landslide-victory-what-now-his-opponents
 

VineyIsLORD

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The mainstream corporate media slag him at every turn, but Corbyn is a herald of the fact young people are turning rapidly toward socialism. The fact the right wing of his party are willing to destroy their own party just to attack him is very important.

The same thing is very shortly going to happen in Australia within the ALP.
 

Sainteric

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The mainstream corporate media slag him at every turn, but Corbyn is a herald of the fact young people are turning rapidly toward socialism. The fact the right wing of his party are willing to destroy their own party just to attack him is very important.

The same thing is very shortly going to happen in Australia within the ALP.
Really? Corybyn is unelectable he doesnt care about governing only purity.
This isnt going to happen to the alp they are all like Sam and Bill they would push anyone under the bus for 5 more minutes of fame. Most of the old commies are in with the greens.
 

Sainteric

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There won't be an Australian Corbyn as left wing voters have simply shifted to the Greens.
Even the Greens wouldn't get away with this




My thoughts are with those whose lives were shattered on 9/11/2001 - and in the wars and terror unleashed across the globe in its aftermath
 

Bomberboyokay

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My thoughts are with those whose lives were shattered on 9/11/2001 - and in the wars and terror unleashed across the globe in its aftermath

The many, many dead people in the fighting in the Middle East that followed don't deserve some acknowledgement? o_O
 

medusala

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Corbyn is being undermined every step of the way by his own party and the mainstream media who refuse to accept the will of the people.

Not the will of the people the will of members. Corbyn is EXTREMELY popular with a majority of labour members and very unpopular with everyone else. Its not just the Blairites who are against him, the Brown followers (yes there are a few) and anyone moderate in the labour party.

The big question is will the redrawn boundaries be used as an excuse for Corbyn to deselect a heap of sitting members.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...appy-lunatics-jeremy-corbyn-will-never-waver/

Labour members - in particular the hundreds of thousands who have joined the party for his sake - adore him, and defend their hero with a righteous passion.

This is why, no matter how badly outsiders may think Mr Corbyn's year has gone, and no matter how many of his MPs oppose him, he'll surely defeat Owen Smith, and very likely any other heretic who dares challenge his position.

Within the membership at least, his followers are legion and unwavering
 
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