Jesse Hogan(mini-draft)- priority for us

[apuchar]

from memory tippet is 196cm.

reading that article membrey looks ok. would be a good get by the sounds of it... still would like a pure KPF though in the mould of hogan, shaw or stringer

202cm but anyway not trying to be a smart arse.

We are not far off getting one of those you mentioned . Chris 25 also mentioned a couple of other possibilities a guy call Paperone or something and sounds like a couple of KPB's went well in the combine. We may not get everyone we need in this draft but maybe over a couple of drafts we can fill our boots.

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

This isnt the 80's, 50% of their job is to make a contest so small blokes can have a crack at it. It's why a potato like Dawes still gets a gig in a top 4 team (although he is below par still). They dont need to kick 5 goals to be considered effective.

Ok then, awesome, so which part of bringing the ball to ground can't Clarke or Kepler or Silvagni or JA or Faulks do?[/quote]

Dawes got dropped in the end too, and most pies supporters were baying for his blood for most of the year. Key forwards do more than just bring the ball to ground. To be of any real worth they have to hit the score board at some point as well. Lets not forget that dawes has cloke as his partner as well

Clarke, well he is a ruckman trying to play forward. Kepler and anthony are rubbish, their bad outweighs their good and silvagni is a backman, who will more than likely be traded.

Are you honestly trying to argue that the only role of a key forward is to make a contest and nothing more? I never said i want someone to kick 5 goals a game. I want someone who can take a mark and kick a goal on a semi-regular basis. none of thos players you have mentioned have been able to do that for us

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

202cm but anyway not trying to be a smart arse.

We are not far off getting one of those you mentioned . Chris 25 also mentioned a couple of other possibilities a guy call Paperone or something and sounds like a couple of KPB's went well in the combine. We may not get everyone we need in this draft but maybe over a couple of drafts we can fill our boots.

yeah. hopefully it works out that way. hogan would have been a great get, but seeing as though that is looking unlikely, hopefully they can find someone who may fit the bill.

202cm? had no idea he was that tall.

 

[Paracleet]

Fairness is relative. If the AFL system was ever tested in court under restraint of trade it would fail every single time. It's only because the players union buys in that it is never tested.

You are right of course; but it's not really applicable. The reason there is no draft in League or Super Rugby is the same reason there is no draft in any football (soccer) leagues of note; you would lose all your players. Take a hypothetical highly talented junior RL player. Why should this player put up with being drafted to a 'weak' NRL team (I.E. the one finishing last) with possibily no chance of long term success when they could take 200,000 pounds a season straight up from, say, Wigan in the U.K..
The AFL (like the American sports that have no serious competition internationally; they also have drafts and other equalisation policies that are totally restraint of trade.) has no competition. What's the point of forcing a restraint of trade action when the AFL owns the league and there is nowhere else to go. Will Werribee pay a quarter of a mil a year?
The players assoc. don't test restraint of trade because they can't. They just have to pitch for what they can get. In this case it's free agency that isn't really free agency.

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

none of those players can take a mark and kick a goal on any form of regular basis. We dont need another pav, although that would be sweet.... id be happy with a guy like schultz even

See what I'm getting at though? We have the B grade scrapper talls and have ample opportunity to recruit more while Pav and McPharlin are still around, that's not what the BF Freo Mob wants.

Because of the "balanced" nature of drafting, salary caps etc, it is more or less impossible to have your cake and eat it too. You can't have gun 1st round draft picks playing every position on the park for you, the compromise has to be made somewhere. We have chosen to compromise on the quality of our big men in order to establish a top notch group of smalls. The people here raging about selecting best available and not selecting talls, fail to grasp this.

At the end of the day, smalls > talls, it makes perfect sense that the club has managed our list along those lines.

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

Ok then, awesome, so which part of bringing the ball to ground can't Clarke or Kepler or Silvagni or JA or Faulks do?

Dawes got dropped in the end too, and most pies supporters were baying for his blood for most of the year. Key forwards do more than just bring the ball to ground. To be of any real worth they have to hit the score board at some point as well. Lets not forget that dawes has cloke as his partner as well

Clarke, well he is a ruckman trying to play forward. Kepler and anthony are rubbish, their bad outweighs their good and silvagni is a backman, who will more than likely be traded.

Are you honestly trying to argue that the only role of a key forward is to make a contest and nothing more? I never said i want someone to kick 5 goals a game. I want someone who can take a mark and kick a goal on a semi-regular basis. none of thos players you have mentioned have been able to do that for us

KPR, you skipped some posts.

 

[Clay Davis]

You are right of course; but it's not really applicable. The reason there is no draft in League or Super Rugby is the same reason there is no draft in any football (soccer) leagues of note; you would lose all your players. Take a hypothetical highly talented junior RL player. Why should this player put up with being drafted to a 'weak' NRL team (I.E. the one finishing last) with possibily no chance of long term success when they could take 200,000 pounds a season straight up from, say, Wigan in the U.K..
The AFL (like the American sports that have no serious competition internationally; they also have drafts and other equalisation policies that are totally restraint of trade.) has no competition. What's the point of forcing a restraint of trade action when the AFL owns the league and there is nowhere else to go. Will Werribee pay a quarter of a mil a year?
The players assoc. don't test restraint of trade because they can't. They just have to pitch for what they can get. In this case it's free agency that isn't really free agency.

I agree, the AFL are the monopsony buyer of Australia football talent, however I do believe that if tested in court the draft system would fail.

This article details the 'fairness' of AFL reasonably well.

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

See what I'm getting at though? We have the B grade scrapper talls and have ample opportunity to recruit more while Pav and McPharlin are still around, that's not what the BF Freo Mob wants.

Because of the "balanced" nature of drafting, salary caps etc, it is more or less impossible to have your cake and eat it too. You can't have gun 1st round draft picks playing every position on the park for you, the compromise has to be made somewhere. We have chosen to compromise on the quality of our big men in order to establish a top notch group of smalls. The people here raging about selecting best available and not selecting talls, fail to grasp this.

At the end of the day, smalls > talls, it makes perfect sense that the club has managed our list along those lines.

whilst i understand the angle you are coming from. I still believe that we have been short sighted. we have had ample opportunity to have a succession plan in place. if mcpharlin or Pav go down with a serious injury, it will hurt us more than say if hawks lost franklin, the eagles lost kennedy etc etc. I think it makes perfect sense to pick some players who we can try to develop. there is a happy medium between recruiting talls and smalls.. i think we have erred to far on the side of recruiting utility/flanker types

 

[Ghost Pig]

I think you're trying to sneak the rogue finger in Ghost Pig.

I understand you're trying to make a point, but let's be honest, Reid, Buddy and Gunston where the only KPF's playing.

Wouldn't happen to be a travelling salesman by any chance?

HA! In a past life sir, in a past life

Well, Roughead, Franklin, Reid and Goodes started as the spine, with all but Reid lining up in the midfield at times, and Reid only contributing one goal on the run from outside fifty. So pedantry is pointless IAJM, The roles are ambiguous, the game is changing. If we had a lazy second rate coach we may need big forwards with lots of talent to win a flag and they do make it easier but, we don't have a lazy second rate coach so the point is moot.

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

KPR, you skipped some posts.

heh, did i? regardless, i think you know where I am coming from

 

[Clay Davis]

HA! In a past life sir, in a past life

Well, Roughead, Franklin, Reid and Goodes started as the spine, with all but Reid lining up in the midfield at times, and Reid only contributing one goal on the run from outside fifty. So pedantry is pointless IAJM, The roles are ambiguous, the game is changing. If we had a lazy second rate coach we may need big forwards with lots of talent to win a flag and they do make it easier but, we don't have a lazy second rate coach so the point is moot.

Problem is first rate talls have always been part of clubs Lyon has coached. Hall, Riewoldt and now Pavlich.

 

[SupersonicDocker]

Wow some of the odd comments here still amaze me. Reid just about saved the game for Sydney across half back in the last quarter. Go back and watch it if you disagree with me.

Fact is, we have no future forwards or future key backs. We didnt have a strategy to take smalls over talls... seriously? we were constantly forced to because guys like Palmer turned out to be spuds. You can tell the club were wanting to take talls but everytime the opportunity came around they had no choice but to realise the midfield was not finals material. Finally this season we are in a position to take more talls than smalls. Not because this is the culmination of a plan.

Fact is, if that scummy, tanking, joke of a melbourne club is going to be handed a 2nd chance at rebuilding without having to try then we need to throw everything into the ring for Mason Shaw.

No time for nervous "lets not go back to the old ways" strategies. If we want to win a flag AND have sustained success we need to draft a gun key forward and start developing him.

Make it happen freo. Lets end these pathetic clubs being spoon fed our talent

 

[mr.11]

What deal could we package to try and get #2 Mini draft???

 

[DOCKERZ]

What deal could we package to try and get #2 Mini draft???

Sandi.

Could. Dunno if we should, sandi came back awesome..

 

[Bulldocker]

Too late...... sounds like the Demons might have already trumped us.

 

[Ghost Pig]

Problem is first rate talls have always been part of clubs Lyon has coached. Hall, Riewoldt and now Pavlich.

Yes, but he didn't draft any of them and he has only won one flag from four GF's and by an arseh*le puckering four points at that. I get the feeling that RTB is constantly refining his structures in the hope that one day he can sit down stress free and know that with the necessary effort applied to his structures the win is assured. Perhaps he longs to coach a game where he doesn't have to watch his skillful midfielders forget their structures after spotting a hungry monster running toward them screaming for the ball. Perhaps he likes the unpredictable entries he gets when his mids are forced look at all their options rather than settling for the big monkey, rain, hail or shine. Perhaps he likes the pressure he can put on opposition defenders by rotating smaller gut runners through the forward line dragging tall defenders out of their comfort zone and exposing them on the rebound. Perhaps he knows the risk just doesn't match the reward and he can do more with hard working 185-190cm flanker/mid/forward/defender type 18 year old with a big tank, than a prospective 195-200cm tall who kicked 60 goals playing against guys half his size at colts level. Perhaps the risk involved just rules the option out altogether. Unless they have kicked 60+ goals in a year at AFL level and have little injury concerns, Ross does not want...

I know JA kind of say's hi

 

[Clay Davis]

Also, I wouldn't call Adam Goodes second rate. He once kicked 8 goals against us, and set up four goals in the GF while kicking another. Pretty good for a guy with a buggered PCL.

The concerns of many about what comes after Pavlich are valid.

 

[Big Flappy]

Look in the end we really know nothing. There is an entire radio station dedicated to trade week which has to fill 8 hours of airtime every day for three straight weeks. They will report the hell out of any scent of a rumour that comes across their table. Melbourne could easily have released this info on purpose to put the pressure on us and the Bulldogs. Remember Demons have been linked to just about every player out there. If pick 3 and 13 was offered you'd think GWS would have accepted it without a second thought and the deal (like the other MD pick) would have been announced by now.

Or it could happen first thing in the morning. We don't actually know anything. I'm not hitting panic stations quite yet. Our guys are pretty savvy and tend to think outside of the box in terms of getting other parties involved. A lot water to go under the bridge yet.

 

[Arcassius]

No, anchor and palm tree.

looks like he's already going to Nic nat for advice

 

[Ghost Pig]

looks like he's already going to Nic nat for advice

Racist.

 

[Freo2012]

I agree, the AFL are the monopsony buyer of Australia football talent, however I do believe that if tested in court the draft system would fail.

This article details the 'fairness' of AFL reasonably well.

I'm almost certain an action would not win - players are "employed" by the AFL in practice as much as the club they are contracted to actually play for. The AFL has no restraints against players going away to get paid to play some other sport after their contracts and all their development and value are developed through the AFL system and its feeder comp's. No club would dare bring an action - they would soon be "eased" out of the competition. The AFL is a professional sporting organisation entertainment show (including the clubs and players) and gradually becoming like a WWE show with every year passing.

 

[apuchar]

No, anchor and palm tree.

Pardon me. Wrong order. You are right, of course

 

[Ghost Pig]

Pardon me. Wrong order. You are right, of course

Yes, there are two things I have come to terms with. One is that I am right, the other is that I am 15 kg over weight. Cest la vie.

 

[jedi mind tricks]

Contradictory argument.

Yes you are correct that I contradicted myself but both players do play KP roles.

 

[Arcassius]

Yes, there are two things I have come to terms with. One is that I am right, the other is that I am 15 kg over weight. Cest la vie.

watch yourself - don't want to be guilty of a hate crime you obesophobic