There is one theme running through the posts of all the Hogan defenders. A total and utter lack of accountability or responsibility for anything on Jesse Hogan’s part. Excuses for virtually everything. He’s a bloody 25 year old man. Grow up and take some responsibility.
Autopsy Jesse Hogan - Worth 220 Points
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Interesting that Jesse changed his manager at the end of the season.
Not sure if his previous manager felt embarrassed about the whole situation. I can't remember the interview (think it may have been Ross) but it sounded like Hogan and his manager pleaded with the club to be traded to Fremantle in 2018 (following the infamous Bell statement that we did our 'due diligence'). Bell's press release came out on the Friday, but Jesse and his manager presented to the club over that weekend and outlined his renewed commitment and promise to change his behavior. We drew up performance incentives in his contract and took the gamble. It didn't work out and Jesse went running.
Jesse strikes me as someone who doesn't like things difficult and has continuously been given second chances throughout his life. Best of luck to him but I think he needs everything to go his way to be a success at GWS.
Not sure if his previous manager felt embarrassed about the whole situation. I can't remember the interview (think it may have been Ross) but it sounded like Hogan and his manager pleaded with the club to be traded to Fremantle in 2018 (following the infamous Bell statement that we did our 'due diligence'). Bell's press release came out on the Friday, but Jesse and his manager presented to the club over that weekend and outlined his renewed commitment and promise to change his behavior. We drew up performance incentives in his contract and took the gamble. It didn't work out and Jesse went running.
Jesse strikes me as someone who doesn't like things difficult and has continuously been given second chances throughout his life. Best of luck to him but I think he needs everything to go his way to be a success at GWS.
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Smug, selfish & campaigner are 3 words I would use to label Jesse
tacopavlich
Premiership Player
I haven't made any excuses for the things Hogan has done which are public knowledge. showed up to training with a hangover in 2019 and breaking quarantine? but like it or not football is just a job, nothing more. His responsibility above anything else in these circumstances is to his well being. I know discussing Hogan like he's an actual human being is going to be easy bait for the performative bravado crowd on here.
Kapow!!!
Brownlow Medallist
Right up until the parts where he suggested that Lobb and Sturt would be the only key forwards we needed that is...
You know having struggled with life after early childhood trauma I understand the layers to this situation that you're representing in this chat, but Jesse sufferring does not absolve him of a certain level of culpability.
While someones mental health is a necessary asterisk when seeking to understand and cope with someones poor behaviour, it does not excuse it. If someone doesnt take responsibility for their actions and own the repercussions then they have normalised the situation and the behaviours are likely to exacerbate.
Yes machismo has no place in healthcare, but all signs point to Jesse being unwilling to do the hard work required to make it work at Freo.
Yes maybe the Perth fishbowl was never going to be something he would overcome, but we can all agree he didnt make life easy for himself at all... he has been through all of this his own worst enemy.
There is one other thing football is not just a job, 4 million people dont get together with their dearest friends and family on one Saturday in September to watch me chip and paint a rusty old workboat.
Competitiveness is biological, it coexists within every living organisms urge to survive. As far back as we can peer into our past, during idle times, we have had games and contests. Yes professionals get paid and are protected because they generate an income, but what about the ammo weekend warrior who bleeds for their team and suffers concussions just playing for their mates?
The reason we all feel so strongly about this is because its a privilege to pull on the purple but this situation and many others like it over the journey make it feel like something less than.
This was a bad trade, that a lot of people at the time had reservations about. It's cost us badly but ultimately, I think the right decision has been made here and given it's horrid nature, will serve the club to make more considered decisions in the future... or at least I hope.
It would have been very easy for the club to persevere with the final year of his contract in an attempt to save face, but this is an apparent sunk cost and this course of action is a very strong statement.
It would have been very easy for the club to persevere with the final year of his contract in an attempt to save face, but this is an apparent sunk cost and this course of action is a very strong statement.
The problem is we can't build a decent culture with people like him at the club. The only way we were getting rid of him was for massive unders.
What is culture? Logically a culture is more influential than the individual, so really to use "culture" as the reason is pretty damn shaky.
Plus all signs point to Hogan's camp being the main initiator of the move.
To hear Bell describe it, it's sensible to suggest there were a number of factors in this which are pretty obvious when you think about it. The isolating affect of rehab right at the start of his time at a new club and then reoccurrence of the injury, Perth media fishbowl, Jesse's tendency towards introversion, probably even hub-life and subsequent running around in a half-baked kick and giggle comp for an extended period.
i'd think also a brand new coach goes round with a tighter sphincter for a while and so is less open to difference than he might be with a few years of experience under the belt.
All up not a great cocktail in this particular instance, but more convincing than the auto generic "culture" malarky.
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At the end of the day I hope he succeeds at GWS, but I honestly won't be shocked if he goes off the rails even more without any media coverage on him, hope he can get the proper help he needs.
tacopavlich
Premiership Player
I have been very careful in my wording when saying I do not excuse Hogan for what is publicly known, I refuse to throw an individual under the bus without knowing what the facts are. With knowing your prior posts on this thread, you've shown no hesitation to play connect the dots with what you think happened with extraneous evidence with "but all signs point to Jesse being unwilling to do the hard work required to make it work at Freo." the best example of this. I am all for challenging the behaviour, I have not made a single excuse. But if a situation itself has the potential to exacerbate maladaptive behaviour and emotions, I am a firm believer of removing the individual from it as well. If Hogan decides Freo and our coach/admin was not the best environment for him (for whatever reason) then it's perfectly ok for him to bounce.
While it is a privilege to play AFL, being in a privileged situation has very little barring on mental health when looking at MDD and suicide as indicators. This is because privilege, inevitably, to all people becomes a fact of life while the self remains unaffected. I went from living in a dangerous neighborhood in the city no job or family to living in a fancy apartment in a nice neighborhood, top % of my classes doing my masters now yet I ended up needing more therapy not less.
As a society particularly a western capitalistic one, we put personal equity and accomplishments on a very high pedestal but in the ultimate grand scheme of things, personal security and happiness from within are more important than anything and the above do not contribute. At the end of the day, uni just gives you a piece of paper that says which job you can do, money helps with financial stress but wealth is just paper and material things. AFL is just a job to kick a footy around. That sounds reductive and you're not going to like it but I'm doing it on purpose, because if I was Hogans Councillor I would be telling him the same thing.
I get the angst, Hogan is incredibly lucky to be a Freo player, something most on this forum would be a dream come true. Yet instead of trying to see from Hogan's point of view, instead I see a lot of people simply projecting themselves onto the situation, which doesn't work.
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I think he will do well. Must have been sh*t for someone suffering from clinical anxiety to be noticed everywhere he goes. It's going to be interesting where he will fit at GWS though, even without Cameron there KPF stocks in Finlayson, Riccardi and Himmelberg is still pretty good.
I agree the vast majority of what you are saying. I have a slight disagreement about priveldge and access to resources and suicide for example but thats for another time. I don't have angst towards Jesse. I truly believe he wanted things to work. The mix of things that arsesmart identified shows as well that attributing blame is tough. Thats why angst towards Jesse or towards just Bell for that manner doesn't make sense to me. There's too many moving parts in this one.
I am only talking about Jesse leaving and not the decision to trade him in though.
tacopavlich
Premiership Player
I meant this very contextually, privilege as a word has no meaning unless applied to a specific comparison. In this case I meant being excessively wealthy and successful to the average person. I probably didn't word that very well though.
No dramas. Like I said a minor thing and otherwise I really agreed with what you said.
Feel Cameron stunted their forward line more then helped.
Finalyson and Himmelberg should go nuts with Hogan. Add Greene and Ricciardi. Better forward line then ours. That’s all on paper though, really depend on what Hogan turns up.
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It'll be the same old Hogan who graced our presence. His career is good as over.
When will we learn and stop recruiting ticking timebombs
great to hear your input again GP
Tell you the truth though I'm a bit disappointed you are still chipping rust out on the deck, you have too great a command of the English language to be doing this
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My thought is ross & Steve wanted Jesse in. It was the last throw of the dice. It would either work or we would still be on the bottom of the ladder.
Now all the above are gone.
Now all the above are gone.
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Can understand fans being angry but there were plenty of happy fans this time 2 years ago.
Just go back and read the first pages of this thread, plenty of people were ecstatic.
It's funny to read those pages and see all the credit went to Belly - now he's somehow exempt from responsibility and it was all Rosich and Ross
We are a fickle bunch!
I was.
The skipper wishes he could throw some earphones in under his earmuffs and listen to audio books and needle gun the day away...
