Coach JLo v RTB

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Jul 12, 2020
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2013 was 7 years ago. The list falling in a hole 2016-2019 (arguably today) was the ultimate responsibility of the coach.

As for JLo, I think it’s fascinating how he can keep us competitive in games despite having blow out quarters go against us. He seems to keep a structure ahead of the ball no matter how badly things are going.

The largest turnaround for Freo in a game under Lyon was 23 points. Basically you knew that if we got four goals down in a Lyon game it was over. We either got pumped or had to settle in for a watching a boring slog as he limited the damage. I feel a lot more excited by footy now than I have in years.
 
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2013 was 7 years ago. The list falling in a hole 2016-2019 (arguably today) was the ultimate responsibility of the coach.

As for JLo, I think it’s fascinating how he can keep us competitive in games despite having blow out quarters go against us. He seems to keep a structure ahead of the ball no matter how badly things are going.

The largest turnaround for Freo in a game under Lyon was 23 points. Basically you knew that if we got four goals down in a Lyon game it was over. We either got pumped or had to settle in for a watching a boring slog as he limited the damage. I feel a lot more excited by footy now than I have in years.


Really :rolleyes: , 2012 to 2015 were a fantastic time to be a Freo supporter
Finals, top 4 finishes, first finals win in Victoria, our greatest win in the Geelong final, GF appearance, Brownlow medal, minor premiership, longest run of wins. Freo became relevant after seasons of being a laughing stock.Now those years were something to be excited about.;)
Trying to downplay Lyons coaching through those years is laughable.
If Longmuir achieves any where near the success of those 4 years he will have done a fantastic job. Longmuir has a great young squad full of early draft picks.
Bottom 4 at the minute and next season also looking tough.
It's early times for Longmuir, let's all hope he will be a success but at the minute he isn't any where near Lyon as a coach.
 
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You can't compare what Ross did for Freo with what JLo has done yet.

2012 until late season 2015 weer amazing times to be a Freo supporter. The 2012 MCG Final win, the two 2013 finals wins. Amazing stuff. Ross has to take a massive part of the credit for all of that.

In late-2015, even though we were still winning the way in which we were wining didn't sit 100% comfortable to me. If it is possible to have a win without feeling lots of joy then that's what the team was doing. Then the prelim loss to the Hawks. I'm not sure if that didn't break Ross a bit. So close again. If we made it through against an Eagles team that heavily choked I would have liked our chances. Things seemed to go sideways from there though and he started to lose me. Bringing in the former Hawks as assistants for starters rang alarm bells for me.

It's interesting that Clarko and Longmire are going through a similar phase this year to what Ross did for 4 years. Older stars and/or younger team, reduced talent, questions about game style. If it continues for the Hawks and the Swans like it is now for another three and a half years I guarantee that they won't be there either.

We held onto Ross for too long in the end and the damage was done. You can see with JLo what a new coach and new enthusiasm can do. Maybe we keep Neale if he can see some progress instead of four years of groundhog day. The last three-four years have been the lowest I've had as a Freo supporter. You wonder what it was like as a player.

JLo is moving in the right direction but he hasn't done anything yet. I'm very happy he's our coach though and I feel we should have made the move at least a year earlier.

Ross though, is the most successful coach in our history, game me as a supporter some amazing moments and deserves our respect. His last fews years though really took their toll.
 
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gungho

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Danyle Pearce was not an average footballer in 2013-2015.

I’d include Suban, De Boer, Mayne (outside of 2013), Mzungu (2015 only) ahead of D.Pearce for being average over that period.

Take the period you’re talking about - not how you remember them as players in general. Everyone tends to be most bias towards what they saw most recently. Given the footy De Boer and Mayne play now it’s easy for people to forget they were close to useless for us from 2014 onwards.
Danyle Pearce was shithouse mate, at Port and Freo.
 
Jul 12, 2020
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Really :rolleyes: , 2012 to 2015 were a fantastic time to be a Freo supporter
Finals, top 4 finishes, first finals win in Victoria, our greatest win in the Geelong final, GF appearance, Brownlow medal, minor premiership, longest run of wins. Freo became relevant after seasons of being a laughing stock.Now those years were something to be excited about.;)
Trying to downplay Lyons coaching through those years is laughable.
If Longmuir achieves any where near the success of those 4 years he will have done a fantastic job. Longmuir has a great young squad full of early draft picks.
Bottom 4 at the minute and next season also looking tough.
It's early times for Longmuir, let's all hope he will be a success but at the minute he isn't any where near Lyon as a coach.

Let’s put it this way, had the Saints gone on with their first quarter and belted us on the weekend under Lyon (which many teams did 2016 onwards), our excuses would have been two missing key defenders, Fyfe on one leg, two left on the bench, young and inexperienced side.

Except that didn’t happen.
 

Sully90

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You can't compare what Ross did for Freo with what JLo has done yet.

2012 until late season 2015 weer amazing times to be a Freo supporter. The 2012 MCG Final win, the two 2013 finals wins. Amazing stuff. Ross has to take a massive part of the credit for all of that.

In late-2015, even though we were still winning the way in which we were wining didn't sit 100% comfortable to me. If it is possible to have a win without feeling lots of joy then that's what the team was doing. Then the prelim loss to the Hawks. I'm not sure if that didn't break Ross a bit. So close again. If we made it through against an Eagles team that heavily choked I would have liked our chances. Things seemed to go sideways from there though and he started to lose me. Bringing in the former Hawks as assistants for starters rang alarm bells for me.

It's interesting that Clarko and Longmire are going through a similar phase this year to what Ross did for 4 years. Older stars and/or younger team, reduced talent, questions about game style. If it continues for the Hawks and the Swans like it is now for another three and a half years I guarantee that they won't be there either.

We held onto Ross for too long in the end and the damage was done. You can see with JLo what a new coach and new enthusiasm can do. Maybe we keep Neale if he can see some progress instead of four years of groundhog day. The last three-four years have been the lowest I've had as a Freo supporter. You wonder what it was like as a player.

JLo is moving in the right direction but he hasn't done anything yet. I'm very happy he's our coach though and I feel we should have made the move at least a year earlier.

Ross though, is the most successful coach in our history, game me as a supporter some amazing moments and deserves our respect. His last fews years though really took their toll.
Interesting comment re Clarkson and Longmire. I'm getting that feeling with them as well.

The only reason that the last 4 years has felt so bad is because of the success that we had immediately before it. I reckon if you weighed it up compared to say 2001 or 2004/05, they were immeasurable worse. Yes there was damage done recently but a lot of work was put into Brayshaw, Cerra, Tucker, Pearce, Darcy and to a lesser extent Logue, Duman, Hughes. Even Shultz, Bewley, Banfield, Crowden, Giro, Cox, Blakely all got their starts under Lyon and could turn out goof for us (although some I doubt it). It sucks that it turned out the way it did but I'm more than hopeful that most of our next finals team made their starts under Lyon and got good education in effort and team defence.
 
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Let’s put it this way, had the Saints gone on with their first quarter and belted us on the weekend under Lyon (which many teams did 2016 onwards), our excuses would have been two missing key defenders, Fyfe on one leg, two left on the bench, young and inexperienced side.

Except that didn’t happen.
That's what tells you ross had lost the players as a whole..
They did not have it in them anymore.
 
Jan 14, 2008
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Let’s put it this way, had the Saints gone on with their first quarter and belted us on the weekend under Lyon (which many teams did 2016 onwards), our excuses would have been two missing key defenders, Fyfe on one leg, two left on the bench, young and inexperienced side.

Except that didn’t happen.


That makes no sense at all.
Lyon wasn't coaching Saturday and Longmuir wasn't coaching when Lyon won the Geelong final under extreme circumstances.
You have as much idea how Longmuir would have handled the Geelong situation as how Lyon would have handled Saturdays game.
Why try to rewrite history, the first 4 years of Lyons tenure have been and still are the best years of our history.
Longmuir is still an unknown quantity and although it's tough circumstances we are 2 and 4 and bottom 4.
 
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That makes no sense at all.
Lyon wasn't coaching Saturday and Longmuir wasn't coaching when Lyon won the Geelong final under extreme circumstances.
You have as much idea how Longmuir would have handled the Geelong situation as how Lyon would have handled Saturdays game.
Why try to rewrite history, the first 4 years of Lyons tenure have been and still are the best years of our history.
Longmuir is still an unknown quantity and although it's tough circumstances we are 2 and 4 and bottom 4.
I am comparing JLo to the last four years of Lyon, which was the reason we moved him on in the first place.

We’re 2-4 and haven’t even played a home game yet.
 
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Interesting comment re Clarkson and Longmire. I'm getting that feeling with them as well.

The only reason that the last 4 years has felt so bad is because of the success that we had immediately before it. I reckon if you weighed it up compared to say 2001 or 2004/05, they were immeasurable worse. Yes there was damage done recently but a lot of work was put into Brayshaw, Cerra, Tucker, Pearce, Darcy and to a lesser extent Logue, Duman, Hughes. Even Shultz, Bewley, Banfield, Crowden, Giro, Cox, Blakely all got their starts under Lyon and could turn out goof for us (although some I doubt it). It sucks that it turned out the way it did but I'm more than hopeful that most of our next finals team made their starts under Lyon and got good education in effort and team defence.

Maybe we were worse in the early 2000's. I just felt that there just seemed a lack of hope surrounding the team lately.

Ross came from the same Paul Roos school of thought that Longmire came from. Watching the Swans game of the weekend reminded me of the last four years. Bad memories.
 
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I am comparing JLo to the last four years of Lyon, which was the reason we moved him on in the first place.

We’re 2-4 and haven’t even played a home game yet.

Shouldn't you be comparing Longmuir to Lyons first 4 years.
Longmuir might not make it to 4 years.
If Longmuir achieves what Lyon did in his first 4 years hallelujah, happy ,happy days.
 

Sully90

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Shouldn't you be comparing Longmuir to Lyons first 4 years.
Longmuir might not make it to 4 years.
If Longmuir achieves what Lyon did in his first 4 years hallelujah, happy ,happy days.
No because Ross' first four years at Fremantle were after being a coach/assistant coach since 1996 (16 years overall). Longmuir has had 9 years as an assistant coach and no senior coaching experience prior to his first four years as Fremantle coach.
 
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No because Ross' first four years at Fremantle were after being a coach/assistant coach since 1996 (16 years overall). Longmuir has had 9 years as an assistant coach and no senior coaching experience prior to his first four years as Fremantle coach.

Making excuses already.
Gotcha. We give Longmuir 4 years then he is right to go.
Alcock said Fremantle needed to make finals and Lyon wasn't the coach to take us there. Fair enough but if
Longmuir lacked the experience to do that why appoint him.
There were experienced coaches putting there hands up.
 

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Shouldn't you be comparing Longmuir to Lyons first 4 years.
Longmuir might not make it to 4 years.
If Longmuir achieves what Lyon did in his first 4 years hallelujah, happy ,happy days.
If Longmuir doesn't make it to four years so be it. Lyon was finished to coaching, this was evident from 2016 onwards.
 

Sully90

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Making excuses already.
Gotcha. We give Longmuir 4 years then he is right to go.
Alcock said Fremantle needed to make finals and Lyon wasn't the coach to take us there. Fair enough but if
Longmuir lacked the experience to do that why appoint him.
There were experienced coaches putting there hands up.
You were talking about comparing Longmuir's start at Fremantle to Ross' start at Fremantle. Every footy fan and their dog can see why that's an unfair comparison.
 

arsesmart

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Maybe we were worse in the early 2000's. I just felt that there just seemed a lack of hope surrounding the team lately.

Ross came from the same Paul Roos school of thought that Longmire came from. Watching the Swans game of the weekend reminded me of the last four years. Bad memories.
Maybe you just don't have the stomach for developing a team and/or influenced by preconceived ideas of coaches/football styles?

The Swans also had a lot of youngsters in over the weekend.

The next little period could be a golden opportunity for Longmuir. I reckon a power of the development work has been done across 2017-19 and he's got a squad that hopefully has had hard bitten grit and accountability instilled in them.

Should be really ready to go once he's had a chance to bed down his game plan and strategies over the season.
 
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If Longmuir doesn't make it to four years so be it. Lyon was finished to coaching, this was evident from 2016 onwards.

Serious question, how long has Longmuir got to get us into the finals. This season will be 5 .
6 or 7 seasons out of contention is a long time. The effect on membership and sponsors dollars would be catastrophic.
Would the club give Longmuir 4 years grace after what Alcock said about needing to make the finals.
 
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You were talking about comparing Longmuir's start at Fremantle to Ross' start at Fremantle. Every footy fan and their dog can see why that's an unfair comparison.

Not the start but the first 4 years. Why is it an unfair comparison.
Football clubs don't appoint senior coaches to learn on the job. The apprenticeship is done as an assistant coach and Longmuir has been at three clubs learning his craft.
I hope Longmuir is successful but making the excuse of inexperience doesn't cut it.
Lyon was a first year coach when he went to the Saints. Had a few hiccups then blossomed, let's hope Longmuir follows the same path.
 
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Serious question, how long has Longmuir got to get us into the finals. This season will be 5 .
6 or 7 seasons out of contention is a long time. The effect on membership and sponsors dollars would be catastrophic.
Would the club give Longmuir 4 years grace after what Alcock said about needing to make the finals.
Should be looking at finals next year IMO. Maybe this year should have been on the cards, but being a new coach in the current environment would be the toughest assignment in footy
 
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Maybe you just don't have the stomach for developing a team and/or influenced by preconceived ideas of coaches/football styles?

The Swans also had a lot of youngsters in over the weekend.

The next little period could be a golden opportunity for Longmuir. I reckon a power of the development work has been done across 2017-19 and he's got a squad that hopefully has had hard bitten grit and accountability instilled in them.

Should be really ready to go once he's had a chance to bed down his game plan and strategies over the season.

Say what?

I don't have the stomach?

You dare say that to a long term Freo supporter? I'm not the lone ranger when it comes to the idea that the last few years have sucked the life out of them.

The Swans played like that for one game not four seasons. FOUR SEASONS (yes its worth yelling).
 

Sully90

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Not the start but the first 4 years. Why is it an unfair comparison.
Football clubs don't appoint senior coaches to learn on the job. The apprenticeship is done as an assistant coach and Longmuir has been at three clubs learning his craft.
Because despite what Garlick and Bell said about finals expectations, ultimately Longmuir is a new coach with a list unproven promising youngsters, excellent veterans and a terrible core of players who are supposed to be in their prime. Like it or not the list is not in the position to fire like the one that Ross had. Ross was the right coach for the job then and I wanted so badly for him to succeed, at the very least to stick it up Hadgorn, Gossage etc. But he had 4 years of young talent to bring to the next level and most of them left or failed in the environment provided for them. I don't think it's unfair to suggest that Lyon wasn't providing the opportunity for a young group to take the next step forward. That is something that Longmuir is doing, but it means he has to rely on these youngsters and veterans to get him wins at the moment, and history always suggests that that is not the recipe for short-term success.
 
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Because despite what Garlick and Bell said about finals expectations, ultimately Longmuir is a new coach with a list unproven promising youngsters, excellent veterans and a terrible core of players who are supposed to be in their prime. Like it or not the list is not in the position to fire like the one that Ross had. Ross was the right coach for the job then and I wanted so badly for him to succeed, at the very least to stick it up Hadgorn, Gossage etc. But he had 4 years of young talent to bring to the next level and most of them left or failed in the environment provided for them. I don't think it's unfair to suggest that Lyon wasn't providing the opportunity for a young group to take the next step forward. That is something that Longmuir is doing, but it means he has to rely on these youngsters and veterans to get him wins at the moment, and history always suggests that that is not the recipe for short-term success.

Sorry to burst the bubble but Lyons first team was made up of veterans, youngsters and a lot of foot soldiers. I thought Lyon did a wonderful job with the players he had.
He moulded the team to play to a game plan that suited his cattle. Lyon never had the top 10 draftees. He had Walters, Clancee, DeBoer, Clark,Sutcliffe ,Fyfe ,Tucker all medium to late to rookie picks and all of whom he turned into pretty good players.
Longmuir has had 4 or 5 years of top end young talent with probably 2 of the top veterans in the game with Fyfe and Walters to work with.
I can only think of 3 young draftees that where any good and drafted and left during Lyons period Neale, Crosier and Langdon.
I think this latest squad is a lot more talented than Lyons initial squad and I really hope Longmuir is the man to bring them to glory.
 
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Sorry to burst the bubble but Lyons first team was made up of veterans, youngsters and a lot of foot soldiers. I thought Lyon did a wonderful job with the players he had.
He moulded the team to play to a game plan that suited his cattle. Lyon never had the top 10 draftees. He had Walters, Clancee, DeBoer, Clark,Sutcliffe ,Fyfe ,Tucker all medium to late to rookie picks and all of whom he turned into pretty good players.
Longmuir has had 4 or 5 years of top end young talent with probably 2 of the top veterans in the game with Fyfe and Walters to work with.
I can only think of 3 young draftees that where any good and drafted and left during Lyons period Neale, Crosier and Langdon.
I think this latest squad is a lot more talented than Lyons initial squad and I really hope Longmuir is the man to bring them to glory.


Exactly, how many first-round picks played in the granny?

Until Longmuir coaches us to a finals win, he is not even in the same conversation.
 
Because despite what Garlick and Bell said about finals expectations, ultimately Longmuir is a new coach with a list unproven promising youngsters, excellent veterans and a terrible core of players who are supposed to be in their prime. Like it or not the list is not in the position to fire like the one that Ross had. Ross was the right coach for the job then and I wanted so badly for him to succeed, at the very least to stick it up Hadgorn, Gossage etc. But he had 4 years of young talent to bring to the next level and most of them left or failed in the environment provided for them. I don't think it's unfair to suggest that Lyon wasn't providing the opportunity for a young group to take the next step forward. That is something that Longmuir is doing, but it means he has to rely on these youngsters and veterans to get him wins at the moment, and history always suggests that that is not the recipe for short-term success.
Except that is exactly what Lyon did over the last 3 years. Of the top 8 possessions winners this year (on average) IMO the following players are benefiting from Lyon's coaching from 2016-19 (so the s**t years).
  1. Walters with a midfield move making him one of the premier players in the comp (avg 21/gm).
  2. Darcy Tucker with 70 games mostly in the middle (17.5)
  3. Brayshaw with 39 games mostly in the middle (17)
  4. Bewley with 7 games last year. Has stepped up more this season. (15)
  5. Cerra with 41 games between mid and defence (where he is currently playing). (14.5)
Those 5 mids are all in the top 8 possession winners (Fyfe, Aish and Mundy round it out). All of them had development put into them by Lyon to turn them into competent (or better) midfielders. Lyon didn't play Sturt and Valente because they were injured the entire time, Dixon and Meek as talls hadn't played. North I have no idea! Every other national drafted player from 2016 to 2018 played at least some games across the time. It is grossly unfair to suggest Lyon didn't provide the opportunity. It is exactly what he did, and it cost him his job.

I hope Longmuir succeeds, but if his tenure is punctuated by the same injury crises that has befallen the previous two coaches then he'll end up on the scrap heap too.
 

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