Game Day Pre season game 1 vs Collingwood - 1st March 2020 @ Norm Minns Oval, Wangaratta

[JAKLAUGHING]

I’d agree with this

I like this...

 

[Hoos]

I like this...

They have a button for that now.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

They have a button for that now.

I don't like this...

 

[Hoos]

I don't like this...

Funny you should say that...

 

[Rayzorwire]

Comparing Shorts kicking to Camerons is absurd. Other than the fact that he can kick it a long way, Cameron kicked the ball low and long and were the perfect ball to mark. Stewie Maxwell might be a better comparison, but Maxwell again was lower over the distance, but both booted in long on just about every occassion. The reason Short has such great metres gained is because he bombs it nearly every time he kicks it. Great for distance and it does clear zones which is a good thing, but it requires a pretty good contested mark to make it efficient.

He kicks long and fast under instruction to gain territory as per our game plan. His kicking is flat, long and exceptional if he's specifically hitting up a target. He doesn't need to add extra elevation to get 60m comfortably and there's no shortage of footage out there of him doing it.

I strongly doubt we'll ever see a two footed kick as good as Cameron again. Short is clearly the best we've had since - these types are rare and precious commodities.

I assume you're talking about Maxfield? I don't recall a player called Stewie Maxwell.

Can you recall an example of him kicking 60+ on his right? I honestly can't recall seeing him use it at all.

Short can kick 60+ on his left when required, so to my mind he's gotta be a closer match than a one-footed player could ever be.

It’s what sets Jack apart from many of his contemporaries he’s one of the best you’ll see on his opposite foot.

Tassie coaching, Rodney. It was still the 70's when Jack was coming through.

"Use your f*n left boy, it's not just there to hold your arse up."

Add to this Balta who is probably the longest kick in our team

Balta's certainly got a very long leg, roacheee, throw in his elite run and you've got some decidedly uncommon key attributes for a man his size.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Balta being in the team would make up for a lot of what is lost in regards to shorts kicking penetration

Short probable has Stack covered in that front but the selection people will also consider defensive ability, hardness, versatility and other attributes were Stack is arguably well ahead.

Personally Id have Baker higher on the list over Short too

Balta's still working the game out and has a way to go developing a football brain. He kicks the footy a long way, but I'd rate his chances of developing enough of a football brain to be a genuinely effective designated rebounder as very slim and arguably a waste of his assets. I'd just let him rip on the wing, he's a Richo-esque nightmare match-up with his combination of height, pace and endurance. If anyone can turn him into a KPD, it's Leppitsch, so I'm not writing off the possibility, I just see it as us making him fit our needs rather than playing to his natural strengths.

Of course, selectors consider a massive range of factors, but I think you're underrating their appreciation for what Short does.

 

[Grrr]

He kicks long and fast under instruction to gain territory as per our game plan. His kicking is flat, long and exceptional if he's specifically hitting up a target. He doesn't need to add extra elevation to get 60m comfortably and there's no shortage of footage out there of him doing it.

I strongly doubt we'll ever see a two footed kick as good as Cameron again. Short is clearly the best we've had since - these types are rare and precious commodities.

I assume you're talking about Maxfield? I don't recall a player called Stewie Maxwell.

Can you recall an example of him kicking 60+ on his right? I honestly can't recall seeing him use it at all.

Short can kick 60+ on his left when required, so to my mind he's gotta be a closer match than a one-footed player could ever be.

I appreciate Shorts long kicking, have said often that clearing the zone is a good attribute, hence the Stuart (non Stewie, your not his mother are you) Maxfield comparison, who was also a long raking kick but without much nuance, a bit like Short.

As far as kicking on the non preferred goes, I don't recall Chris Newman, Bachar Houli, Nick Vlastuin or any of our other good long kicks ever kicking on their non preferred. If you can do it, it's a bonus but certainly not a necessary part of being a good football. Martin will 9 times out of 10 these days come back onto his right rather than use his left even though he can. Jack Riewoldt is probably the most natural both sided player we have had since Camerson.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Canna see Short, Baker and Stack playing in the same side...one of them has to go...too many short arses for my liking...
Baker and Stacky are tough, can take a grab, both are good kicks and both are versatile to play forward or back...Short just doesn't do it for me...

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

Sounds like poor old Jayden might be the new Brandon around here.

 

[biaseddustyfan]

Sounds like poor old Jayden might be the new Brandon around here.

Prediction - New whipping boy?

With Cellis already gone and now Bellis off to Fold Coast who will be the new whipping boy over the next few years? Which "player watch" thread will have 200+ pages more than any other player, consisting mostly of posters bagging the player with occasional inter-board fights? My top 5 would be...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Rayzorwire]

As far as kicking on the non preferred goes, I don't recall Chris Newman, Bachar Houli, Nick Vlastuin or any of our other good long kicks ever kicking on their non preferred.

So they too would be a weaker comparison to Cameron than Short is?

Is that the point you want to make?

If so, I agree.

FWIW, Newman was so determinedly one-footed I'd be willing to bet that when he had that horrible fracture he would rather kick with his full cast on than use his right. For good reason.

Canna see Short, Baker and Stack playing in the same side...one of them has to go...too many short arses for my liking...
Baker and Stacky are tough, can take a grab, both are good kicks and both are versatile to play forward or back...Short just doesn't do it for me...

Height is most definitely an issue, JAK, I'd be downright flabbergasted if we played all three in defence for any period of time.

We probably need to keep in mind that where Stack and Baker play over the next year or two is quite possibly not where they'll end up playing the rest of their careers. At least one of them will rotate through the guts over the longer term - due to all the good attributes you mention.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Balta's still working the game out and has a way to go developing a football brain. He kicks the footy a long way, but I'd rate his chances of developing enough of a football brain to be a genuinely effective designated rebounder as very slim and arguably a waste of his assets. I'd just let him rip on the wing, he's a Richo-esque nightmare match-up with his combination of height, pace and endurance. If anyone can turn him into a KPD, it's Leppitsch, so I'm not writing off the possibility, I just see it as us making him fit our needs rather than playing to his natural strengths.

Of course, selectors consider a massive range of factors, but I think you're underrating their appreciation for what Short does.

balta can kick it 70meters to 3 oppo blokes as well as short can

he also isnt tiny and adds some intimidation factor if he went to the back6

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

balta can kick it 70meters to 3 oppo blokes as well as short can

he also isnt tiny and adds some intimidation factor if he went to the back6

Not a backman's rear end!

 

[tora tora tora]

balta can kick it 70meters to 3 oppo blokes as well as short can

he also isnt tiny and adds some intimidation factor if he went to the back6

Balta comes into the team/backline for someone other than Short. Down back Balta's No 1 job is to defend. Punch, spoil and generally try to beat an opponent. Balta produced a couple of 70m bombs in the Marsh. I still reckon he's got 2,3 years away from being a fully formed specimin. Which is good transition from Dave.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Balta comes into the team/backline for someone other than Short. Down back Balta's No 1 job is to defend. Punch, spoil and generally try to beat an opponent. Balta produced a couple of 70m bombs in the Marsh. I still reckon he's got 2,3 years away from being a fully formed specimin. Which is good transition from Dave.

If Balta plays with Grimes, Astbury, Broad, Vlastuin, Houli

etc.

he wont have to defend that much, like short does not (even when he is supposed to)

you also get a guy that has richo like qualities instead of small and weak

 

[Marcel Proust]

Not a backman's rear end!

hes not really anything we are playing him on potential

 

[Dusty0004]

hes not really anything we are playing him on potential

true and it’s up to him to find a niche in the side. That looks more then likely to be in defence. It’s up to him. They’re not going to move players sideways and out of position that could potentially upset balance on potential. He needs to make it his own.