Autopsy JLT 2: 28 point loss to Geelong

rumply

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All I will say is I thought we where not good enough around the contest in both games. Positioning was average and we still have 3 blokes charging into the contest leaving the opposition free on the outer 5m and 10m of the contest. To be honest I am not expecting a lot more than last season. 12 or 13 wins.
So it's the midfield that is still our biggest area of concern for you?
 

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JayJ20

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We're in a similar condition as this time last year (ok slightly better due to fitness). Makes me concerned. We can’t seem to stop the big bodied mids like Danger and Cripps at all and I fear that the 6-6-6 rule is going to make that worse for us. They’ll have more time and space. We certainly didn’t look like we were holding back against Geelong so effort is not the reason.

I was concerned this time last year too and the trends are very similar. “New gameplan”. Not gelling as a team. Confusion among players. Leaky defence. Some players in concerning form. Physically incapable of consistently impacting contest. Only a threat to score from defence. Hardly any scores generated from the midfield. Bolded the main problem.

You can't expect to be a consistent team with such a chaotic pathway to goal. Having to score from defence makes turnovers way more damaging the other way. There is no real reliable system of working towards a goal or stopping a goal. It's why we can beat the best teams when we pull it off, but still lose to the worst of them. It's entertaining, but is it reliable at a rain-soaked MCG in the middle of July? Nope. It should be one of our weapons, but not the main pathway. Our only hope is for guys like Parish, Laverde and Langford to take the reins and impose themselves physically in contests to stop the ball coming out easily and quickly. If they aren't willing, then we need to try guys like Mutch and Clarke, although Clarke's kicking is a huge work in progress.

I hope I’m wrong, but it looks we're in for another similar year.
 

ant555

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So it's the midfield that is still our biggest area of concern for you?
It still has questions for me.
That is not to say we already have some of the answers but they are yet to step up week in and week out. Shiel is a jet but I am not sure overall he makes us a 3 or 4 win better side. My main concern is the team defence. The midfield can still be very loose which puts huge pressure on the back half. There are some key players in the side who do not defend well and have to get their heads around it.

For us to be better Zak Merrett has to be better in his positioning and work rate in the zone. There is no doubt he is a star and can tackle and put pressure on but he is prone to ball watch when the ball leaves the area and those few seconds can leave him out of position.

Darcy Parish has a similar issue as Zak M. His defence is a work in progress. He is also working through finding a more rounded game in offence. He can get there but it may be another season.

David Zaharakis is another who has to consolidate himself as an A grade midfielder.

Langford has to keep getting better as well but he could take another season to get to his best level.

We have a good side but we are short another A grade in the midfield and we are also continuing to work on the team defence side of things. IMO I suspect we are still another season away from having the answers we need. We will know if the players I mentioned can find their extra 10%. We will know if Joe can get back to where he was a couple of seasons ago and we will know if Jake Stringer can take his game to a more consistent level.

What I will say is it will be interesting to watch how it pans out as the young blokes in the VFL have proven last year that they are prepared to attempt to play in more of a team style albeit patchy at times as they are learning.They will block for each other rather than look for easy stats which is a good sign. The question will be what decision gets made is the senior group do not get on board.
 
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Re Langford and Parish, is it possible they were told to go pretty easy in both games as they are expected to have a big workload this year, and both are still quite young? There time on ground stats seems to support this.
 
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David Zaharakis is another who has to consolidate himself as an A grade midfielder.
He has never been an A grade midfielder and never will be.

Certainly talented but he just floats through games far too many times. Has been on the end of a couple of match winning goals in his career that has inflated his value in many eyes.
 

ant555

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He has never been an A grade midfielder and never will be.

Certainly talented but he just floats through games far too many times. Has been on the end of a couple of match winning goals in his career that has inflated his value in many eyes.
Consolidate was really the wrong word to use. He has to go to the next level. You are correct in saying he floats through too many games. I thought he looked to turn that around last year in the few games before he got injured but he simply has to start being the consistent midfielder we need him to be and that includes playing his role in defence and not cherry picking kicks to build up his stats.
 

Lore

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Who likes charts?? If you don't, look away now 🙄🙄🙄 Mostly when I make stuff like this it's to satisfy my own curiosity 😬

Think the Geelong game we had much better control of the score line than we did against Carlton. Carlton was a steady blowout until 3QT, whereas against Geelong we kept it fairly evenly matched for most of the game.

JLT1 worm:
Screen Shot 2019-03-09 at 3.32.08 pm.png


JLT2 worm:
Screen Shot 2019-03-09 at 2.17.44 pm.png




Something else to consider, the time on ground of various players/groups of players across the JLT series compared to 2018 average TOG:

Red shades: Defenders
Blue shades: Forwards
Purple shades: Rucks
Yellow/Orange shades: Midfielders

Screen Shot 2019-03-09 at 3.56.21 pm.png



Compare the pair: (scroll down for easy read player position graph...)

JLT1:
Screen Shot 2019-03-09 at 3.30.54 pm.png


JLT2:
Screen Shot 2019-03-09 at 3.31.06 pm.png


Or to put it another way;

Screen Shot 2019-03-09 at 3.45.55 pm.png
 

westking

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Who likes charts?? If you don't, look away now 🙄🙄🙄 Mostly when I make stuff like this it's to satisfy my own curiosity 😬

Think the Geelong game we had much better control of the score line than we did against Carlton. Carlton was a steady blowout until 3QT, whereas against Geelong we kept it fairly evenly matched for most of the game.

JLT1 worm:
View attachment 631941

JLT2 worm:
View attachment 631879



Something else to consider, the time on ground of various players/groups of players across the JLT series compared to 2018 average TOG:

Red shades: Defenders
Blue shades: Forwards
Purple shades: Rucks
Yellow/Orange shades: Midfielders

View attachment 631953


Compare the pair: (scroll down for easy read player position graph...)

JLT1:
View attachment 631935

JLT2:
View attachment 631936

Or to put it another way;

View attachment 631946
Ive negotiated through enough EBA's over the years to not get sucked in by your pretty graphs and pie charts.
Show me the $money$ or jam your argument up your own rectum!
 

ghostdog

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Relax people relax.

Cats played a chip chip short kick/easy hold mark game and maintained possession with quick play on handballs with more short passes.

We went for the flat out running multiple hand pass attack game and it just didn’t come together in the F50.

We’ll be right.

Tackling and chasing by us was good.

Just another practice match folks. View attachment 631116
Ive negotiated through enough EBA's over the years to not get sucked in by your pretty graphs and pie charts.
Show me the $money$ or jam your argument up your own rectum!
Ow. Snippy. It might be the way I'm interpreting it but I would have thought if you finished not having improved the margin then that would not show control. We kicked what, 5 goals within 12 or so minutes against Carten? That momentum screams control, even though we lost.
 

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Lore

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Ow. Snippy. It might be the way I'm interpreting it but I would have thought if you finished not having improved the margin then that would not show control. We kicked what, 5 goals within 12 or so minutes against Carten? That momentum screams control, even though we lost.
I wouldn't say that we "controlled" either game. But letting Carlton run away with it for three quarters before turning up to recover the scoreline for a game that doesn't actually matter after they've run out of gas or motivation or whatever is not really what I want to see.

The Geelong game showed better control (not 'controlled' in absolute terms, but better nonetheless), in that Geelong were only allowed a couple of unanswered goals at the end of the second quarter. We kept a lid on them for the rest of the game, which shows much better gameplay for a much larger portion of the game.

Next step, no random unanswered goals in any quarters :p

Of course, it helps when you actually have your good players on the field for more of the game, which I would expect in the regular season. Scratch matches like these have allowed us to put players returning from injury into a senior game, when normally we wouldn't see them back for a couple more weeks.
 

ghostdog

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I wouldn't say that we "controlled" either game. But letting Carlton run away with it for three quarters before turning up to recover the scoreline for a game that doesn't actually matter after they've run out of gas or motivation or whatever is not really what I want to see.

The Geelong game showed better control (not 'controlled' in absolute terms, but better nonetheless), in that Geelong were only allowed a couple of unanswered goals at the end of the second quarter. We kept a lid on them for the rest of the game, which shows much better gameplay for a much larger portion of the game.

Next step, no random unanswered goals in any quarters :p

Of course, it helps when you actually have your good players on the field for more of the game, which I would expect in the regular season. Scratch matches like these have allowed us to put players returning from injury into a senior game, when normally we wouldn't see them back for a couple more weeks.
So what you're saying is that it's the way you're interpreting it :)

I get what you're saying. I really don't think we can read too much into it. Reckon most were just cruising and getting k's into the legs, and hopefully that was to preserve the bodies because our pressure and defensive game is expected to be a lot harder.
 

Lore

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So what you're saying is that it's the way you're interpreting it :)

I get what you're saying. I really don't think we can read too much into it. Reckon most were just cruising and getting k's into the legs, and hopefully that was to preserve the bodies because our pressure and defensive game is expected to be a lot harder.
I don’t really put any stock in it but for those that do (and some have pointed out similarities between last year’s JLT and our first 8 rounds). But if you do put stock in it then that’s how I’d look at it. 🤷‍♀️ The score line is pretty irrelevant when you have half your team different between quarters, but ya.
 

bombadeer

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I've written off 2021 now too.
I admire your optimism. I've written off 2021, pencilled in a drug scandal for most of the remaining 2020s, followed by a merger with Goal Coast. Unfortunately, I don't see the marketing boffins allowing the "Bombers" moniker to survive the transition. Gold Coast Cessna's... ?

The ray of hope - the only thing that keeps me going through these tough pre-season matches - the MCG will almost certainly be under a couple of metres of Port Philip Bay before either Hawthorne or Carlscum get another crack at a flag. **** them.
 
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