JLT-2 Crows v GWS - Post Match Thoughts

Elite Crow

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Stop worrying about what we get and we don't get or what we lost because of cheating, it is what it is, it makes you sound like you have a chip on your shoulder
Classic, you’re the one who keeps comparing us to other clubs, I’m merely pointing out how shallow your argument is
 

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Geoffa32

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Stop worrying about what we get and we don't get or what we lost because of cheating, it is what it is, it makes you sound like you have a chip on your shoulder
A club that does not strive for success does not play in a Grand Final five years after draft pick sanctions, two years after the Head Coach is murdered and losing a guy like Dangerfield.

You make our club sound like a rabble with no direction or hunger for success. When in fact the opposite is the truth.



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Rory Walkerfield

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I blocked one completely unhinged poster but he doesn’t post a lot, so not too often confused. But I do need to do the odd double take. Surely the response to an ignored poster could include something like - “Response to ignored content”. I’m sure it did in a previous version.
Lol. I have blocked only one poster here but unfortunately I still find it really hard to follow threads because of the prevalence of that person. Some times up to half a thread will be populated by that poster and responses to them.

I just don’t understand why people even respond to that person. Says as much about them as it does about that one unhinged poster. I wish everyone would block that poster.
 
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When you think about it we are four games of Footy shy of being "as good" as WCE and Hawthorn in terms of success.

2005/06 Prelims. Win one or two of these and play our bunny in Sydney on GF day.
2012 Should have beaten Hawthorn. Yes the Swans won the QF but that was a very bad game by us. We beat them at the SCG that year
2017. I put that loss on the players. Been told by a person at the club a lot of our guys had the game won before the bounce and took Richmond lightly. A big aspect of The Camp was teaching the players humility and respect for opposition.


These games go our way and we are as successful as Hawthorn and WCE in the modern era.


We are certainly a club that strives for success....

I didnt include 1993. As I reckon if we won that flag the ruthless decisions made in 1996 would not have happened and not sure a club culture built on Andrew Jarman, McGuiness, McDermott and Graham Cornes winning an AFL flag is that good.

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Definitely some missed opportunities. No arguments there.

One (fairly simplistic) way of looking at which teams have truly taken advantage of their premiership opportunity is to simply ask the question...

Who was the best side of each given minor round (the minor premiership being the obvious measure of that) vs. how many premierships that side has actually won?

We won 2 flags when we weren't the best team in the minor round, and failed twice ('05 and '17) when we were.

On each end of the spectrum, Hawks and Lions have clearly made the most of their opportunities, whilst the Bombers clearly haven't.

AFL Era 1990-2018

+3
Hawthorn (5 flags, 2 minor premierships)
Brisbane (3 flags, 0 minor prems)

+1
West Coast (4 flags, 3 minor prems)
North (2 flags, 1 minor prem)
Bulldogs (1 flag, 0 minor prems)

PAR
Geelong 0 (3 flags, 3 minor prems)
Adelaide 0 (2 flags, 2 minor prems)
Collingwood 0 (2 flags, 2 minor prems)
Richmond 0 (1 flag, 1 minor prem)
Carlton 0 (1 flag, 1 minor prem)

-1
Sydney (2 flags, 3 minor prems)
Fremantle (0 flags, 1 minor prem)

-2
Port (1 flag, 3 minor prems)
St Kilda (0 flags, 2 minor prems)

-3
Essendon (2 flags, 5 minor prems)

No Flags/No Minor Prems
Melbourne
GWS
Gold Coast

If we're talking just the Grand Finalists, and ignoring minor premiers, then it looks like this...

+4
Hawthorn 5-1

+2
Brisbane 3-1

+1
West Coast 4-3
North 2-1
Adelaide 2-1
Bulldogs 1-0
Richmond 1-0

PAR
Essendon 2-2
Port 1-1

-1
Geelong 3-4
Carlton 1-2
Fremantle 0-1
Melbourne 0-1

-2
Collingwood 2-4
Sydney 2-4

-3
St Kilda 0-3
 

rocket18

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We do strive for that success....and have failed.

I think you need to look up the meaning of the word strive.

I get it. You are not happy we have not won a flag since 1998. None of us are. But to suggest our club does not strive (your word) to win flags is a fallacy.

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God forbid I agree with anything Marty puts forward.

But there is some truth with the comment our club not striving for a flag.

Under Trigg we certainly took the soft option on many occasions where a different course of action would have resulted in a better chance for a flag.

BUT as usual Marty shifted the goalposts where he initially had a crack at our recruiting/talent ID which morphed into not striving for a flag.

He then overlooked the post someone made about the 5 high draft picks (due to the above mentioned soft options) AND players we have lost, he concentrated solely on the lost players by comparing us to players WC lost - ignoring the fact we should have 5 extra players taken with picks in the 10 - 30 range who would be now in their prime.

But Herp Derp Hamish Knows Nothing.
 

Geoffa32

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God forbid I agree with anything Marty puts forward.

But there is some truth with the comment our club not striving for a flag.

Under Trigg we certainly took the soft option on many occasions where a different course of action would have resulted in a better chance for a flag.

BUT as usual Marty shifted the goalposts where he initially had a crack at our recruiting/talent ID which morphed into not striving for a flag.

He then overlooked the post someone made about the 5 high draft picks (due to the above mentioned soft options) AND players we have lost, he concentrated solely on the lost players by comparing us to players WC lost - ignoring the fact we should have 5 extra players taken with picks in the 10 - 30 range who would be now in their prime.

But Herp Derp Hamish Knows Nothing.
I dont think we stopped striving to win a flag.

But do think we have not been ruthless enough at times.


You could personify this with Craigy's coaching. Great home and away coach. Got us in a good spot for Finals especially in 05/06.

But was not ruthless enough to win either Prelim in 05/06. WCE were in those games. They had that little bit extra to win both games. They wanted it more.

I think that in a nutshell sums up our club. Hawthorn are ruthless as are the Eagles.

Since 2015 with Fagan/Walshy and Roo getting involved I think an element of ruthlessness is there.

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marty36

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I dont think we stopped striving to win a flag.

But do think we have not been ruthless enough at times.


You could personify this with Craigy's coaching. Great home and away coach. Got us in a good spot for Finals especially in 05/06.

But was not ruthless enough to win either Prelim in 05/06. WCE were in those games. They had that little bit extra to win both games. They wanted it more.

I think that in a nutshell sums up our club. Hawthorn are ruthless as are the Eagles.

Since 2015 with Fagan/Walshy and Roo getting involved I think an element of ruthlessness is there.

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Is Pyke Ruthless or Conservative

Im a bit divided on that one, he seems to have an awfully conservative approach
 

Geoffa32

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Is Pyke Ruthless or Conservative

Im a bit divided on that one, he seems to have an awfully conservative approach
Not as conservative as Craigy. But not as ruthless as Walshy. Or Blight.

I dont think modern coaches are that ruthless to be honest. Most set up their formations and movement strategies and dont make drastic changes through games.

Remember the game Danger was injured but played from the forward line for Geelong all game. He didnt push up defensively as he was physically unable to and the games best coach (Clarko) could not work out a match up for this as he didnt want to lose a man across their defensive line.

Apparantly Danger convinced Scott to use him this way as Scott was not sure he wanted to break from their set formations and player movement.

I tend to think the coaching courses they do has homogenised the way coaches think.




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Geoffa32

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Pyke is probably less conservative than a lot of modern coaches.

Gone are the Blighty days where you through the names on the whiteboard around.

But the use of the Bullet and the way Jenkins is allowed to roam and create those loose man goals show he is not all about fixed structure.

Having said that the Bullet was devised by Walshy and used at Port in 2013. But he kept it.

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1970crow

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Nah that’s the brother your thinking of who is still at Collingwood, recovering from a knee reco. Jonty never got selected.
That was the joke, Marty was saying posters who didn't have Jonty going round 1 didn't have a clue what they were talking about. It was hilarious that he fell all the way to undrafted. Not for Jonty obviously, it's not his fault that Marty hitched himself to his wagon.
 

beartoo

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Lol. I have blocked only one poster here but unfortunately I still find it really hard to follow threads because of the prevalence of that person. Some times up to half a thread will be populated by that poster and responses to them.

I just don’t understand why people even respond to that person. Says as much about them as it does about that one unhinged poster. I wish everyone would block that poster.
Spot on. Tie him to the anchor and drop it.
 

Sanders

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Lol. I have blocked only one poster here but unfortunately I still find it really hard to follow threads because of the prevalence of that person. Some times up to half a thread will be populated by that poster and responses to them.

I just don’t understand why people even respond to that person. Says as much about them as it does about that one unhinged poster. I wish everyone would block that poster.
That’s a lot of I 😂
 

Elite Crow

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He’s obviously a bit thick.

Even smart people can be idiots sometimes, we all know this but Marty is just a bit simple. Let’s not dress it up as pigheadedness 😎
Nah he’s not, he’s actually switched on but when it comes to footy, well that’s a different matter it seems
 
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