JLT-2 Crows v GWS - Post Match Thoughts

azza77

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Posts
6,712
Likes
8,947
Location
Perth
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Minnesota Vikings, Manchester Utd
Watching the game again and yes Sauce Ruckwork nit great.

But our mids were pretty good playing to him and we did well when he didnt win the Hitout. The quality of the GWS midfield not that bad though.

Sauce still did very well in that bail out role through the arcs. Given the shit he receives he still polished it up and sent us forward allowing the mids and flankers to reset down the line.

ROB can't do this and is not exactly light years ahead of Sauce in terms of Ruckwork. For me right now without the hyperbole of a live game Sauce stays in right now.

Harto v Keath I can't split.


I like the forward line set up of Tex n Jenkins and the smalls.

Would love Murphy, Jones and Knighta to play. With Eddie that us lot of tackle pressure.

We will miss Brown. Kelly is the best solution we have.



Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
Sauce was bordering on brilliant IMO and deserving of praise. Only knock was ruckwork was a little rusty, but that's to be expected. It's very easy to forget how good his kicking skills are for a big man. Can hit the short 15-30m the half the midfielders in the league. That's the one thing I worry about most with ROB.

Won't complain if Sauce can carry this form all season, god knows we need it.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

azza77

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Posts
6,712
Likes
8,947
Location
Perth
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Minnesota Vikings, Manchester Utd
I know it was only JLT with little pressure, but has anyone mentioned our precision kicking, working it out of defence and actually around the entire ground. There were some absolute pinpoint Dennis Comettis (centimetre perfect). I've never seen us hit targets like that before.
Our field kicking has looked miles ahead of most other teams (probably only WCE on par) and yet I say it again, we barely looked like we were even trying for both those 2 JLT games. Looked like were jsut going through the motions, without any real sense of urgency most of the time, and yet we were cutting teams up.

WCE made huge efforts to kick the ball more in 2018 and look where it took them. Now the 6-6-6 has opened up the ground even more since last season, and will reward the teams who can move the ball fast and take advantage of the 1v1s.

Just call me Iain Hewitson, cos I'm excited!
 

jackster83

24 nuggets for $10
Joined
Jul 31, 2007
Posts
10,219
Likes
11,979
Location
Adelaide
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Sin City Swamprats, Dethklok
Sauce was bordering on brilliant IMO and deserving of praise. Only knock was ruckwork was a little rusty, but that's to be expected. It's very easy to forget how good his kicking skills are for a big man. Can hit the short 15-30m the half the midfielders in the league. That's the one thing I worry about most with ROB.

Won't complain if Sauce can carry this form all season, god knows we need it.
He was pretty good below his knees too, out of necessity due to all our handballs ending up at his feet.
 

Elite Crow

Premium Platinum
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Posts
47,618
Likes
61,843
Location
adelaide
AFL Club
Adelaide
Our field kicking has looked miles ahead of most other teams (probably only WCE on par) and yet I say it again, we barely looked like we were even trying for both those 2 JLT games. Looked like were jsut going through the motions, without any real sense of urgency most of the time, and yet we were cutting teams up.

WCE made huge efforts to kick the ball more in 2018 and look where it took them. Now the 6-6-6 has opened up the ground even more since last season, and will reward the teams who can move the ball fast and take advantage of the 1v1s.

Just call me Iain Hewitson, cos I'm excited!
We also have some of the best kicks in the comp, Smith, Milera, Seeds, Atkins and Tex.

That’s moving the ball out defence, through the middle to half forward if we can move the ball on our terms, that’s the hard part as the opposition will obviously try and impede our ball movement.
 

Vader

Sith Lord
Joined
Oct 14, 2005
Posts
39,507
Likes
19,448
Location
Canberra
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Norwood, Adelaide Crows
As long as the defense is there, Knight is best 22 lock for a damn long time as a small forward or a tagger. Providing he doesn't get injured of course, that's probably the only danger point to being overtaken.

He may not have the polish, however, he doesn't need it at all to have a long career. Cheap salary cap wise and offering a high level of defence in roles that are defined by defence is a very good combination.
Yeah, nah! I can think of a few other players who were excellent defensively, but who didn't offer enough offensively. They found themselves in the unemployment line as soon as a viable replacement could be found. Think Jared Petrenko!

Between Murphy, Ned, Jones & Gallucci, Knight should be very, very, concerned about holding his position.
 

Jack is Back

Premiership Player
Joined
Apr 17, 2013
Posts
3,360
Likes
7,633
AFL Club
Adelaide
Yeah, nah! I can think of a few other players who were excellent defensively, but who didn't offer enough offensively. They found themselves in the unemployment line as soon as a viable replacement could be found. Think Jared Petrenko!

Between Murphy, Ned, Jones & Gallucci, Knight should be very, very, concerned about holding his position.
Are you declaring Riley Knight the new Petrenko?
Does that mean he will never play 50 AFL games?

I like to document these things.
 

Vader

Sith Lord
Joined
Oct 14, 2005
Posts
39,507
Likes
19,448
Location
Canberra
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Norwood, Adelaide Crows
Our field kicking has looked miles ahead of most other teams (probably only WCE on par) and yet I say it again, we barely looked like we were even trying for both those 2 JLT games. Looked like were jsut going through the motions, without any real sense of urgency most of the time, and yet we were cutting teams up.

WCE made huge efforts to kick the ball more in 2018 and look where it took them. Now the 6-6-6 has opened up the ground even more since last season, and will reward the teams who can move the ball fast and take advantage of the 1v1s.

Just call me Iain Hewitson, cos I'm excited!
I'm not sure how much credit should be going to 666. 666 really only impacts the first 10-15 seconds when play re-starts after a goal (or the start of a quarter). It took almost 10 minutes to score the first goal on Friday night, and 666 was really only in play for about 2.5% of that time.
 

Vader

Sith Lord
Joined
Oct 14, 2005
Posts
39,507
Likes
19,448
Location
Canberra
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Norwood, Adelaide Crows
Are you declaring Riley Knight the new Petrenko?
Does that mean he will never play 50 AFL games?

I like to document these things.
No, I'm not saying that. And you know damn well I picked Petrenko's faults to a tee, with the rest of the board (and the club) waking up to them about 24 months after I started calling him on them. The reasons he was delisted were the same flaws I spotted in his game when I made that call.

Knight has more ability than Petrenko ever did, but he's also got a lot more competition for his spot in the team.
 

Shaz2012

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Sep 15, 2012
Posts
6,772
Likes
6,982
AFL Club
Adelaide
Defensive effort couldn’t save Petrenko or Wright, and this is the thing I think gets Murphy in the end. It’s all well and good to be a gun defensively, but as a forward, if you’re lacking offensively, you’ll always be on the edge. The coaches are always going to wonder if someone else with better offensive skills could “do enough defensively” or could they rotate an extra genuine mid through your spot?

Knight has the offensive ability in this regard, he just needs to remain fit enough to settle into his role I think. Murphy I worry about a little, especially with Jones, McHenry, Gallucci, Stengle, McAdam and Davis hanging around.

Injury has no doubt been the Achilles heel of Knight thus far in his career. Build up some continuity and he’s a fair chance of locking down his spot.
I completely agree that defensive effort is not enough. But I think you might be selling Murphy a bit short. Last season was only his first season and he clearly lacked the tank to be able to play out 4 quarters of AFL footy. But even then he averaged a goal a game and 3.7 tackles. He kicked some important goals too, ones that many crows over the years have missed.

He clearly needs to improve on what he produced last season and go to another level. But he is tracking quite nicely and I have liked what I saw from him in the preseason. I don't think Murphy or Knight will keep their spot as Petrekno type forwards. But I think both have it in them to be much more than that.
 

Shaz2012

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Sep 15, 2012
Posts
6,772
Likes
6,982
AFL Club
Adelaide
I'd argue Petrenko and Wright are two examples of players appearing before their era, seeing they left here before we started to see a real importance placed on defensive pressure (there was a bit, but we hadn't hit the dogs/tigers premierships which was built off of that facet).

I reckon that pendulum has gone the other way in that it's a case of a good offensive player being much more likely to get pushed out because someone else is better on defence. The Menzel, and Stengle trades really stick out in this regard seeing both were much better offensive threats then what either club had as their incumbent small forwards. If I also had to get my crystal ball out I'd also have some confidence defense work on a small forward is going to become a lot more important in the next 2-3 years.
Who are these non-statistical pressure forwards who dont hit the scoreboard that Richmond have? Pressure forwards aren't new. We knew that was "the Petrenko role" at the time. He just wasn't good enough at it. Not productive enough. Murphy last year was statistically very similar to Petrenko at his best, yet Murphy clearly didn't have an AFL level fitness base.
 

Jack is Back

Premiership Player
Joined
Apr 17, 2013
Posts
3,360
Likes
7,633
AFL Club
Adelaide
No, I'm not saying that. And you know damn well I picked Petrenko's faults to a tee, with the rest of the board (and the club) waking up to them about 24 months after I started calling him on them. The reasons he was delisted were the same flaws I spotted in his game when I made that call.

Knight has more ability than Petrenko ever did, but he's also got a lot more competition for his spot in the team.
What I remember is that you stated with absolute confidence and certainty that Petrenko would never play 50 games of AFL and he played nearly 50% more games than you predicted.......but that’s water under the bridge.

There is no guarantee that Riley Knight will play more AFL games than the Pup but imho that has nothing to with his talent. Riley seems to pick up another obscure injury whenever he is about to move to another level. I was at the G for the 2015 elimination final against the Bulldogs and he played a great game. He has played 28 games in the last three seasons which includes 19 games in 2017.

What I like about Riley is his natural attacking instinct. When he marks the ball he immediately thinks to play on and this can often set up the forwards in front of him. In this regard he reminds me of Kane Johnson in 1997 and 1998. He has a good engine is sneaky quick and tackles well.

I agree that there are plenty of players nipping at his heels and this is a make or break year for him.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Golumless

I'm kind of a big deal on the east side
Joined
Jul 12, 2013
Posts
22,294
Likes
24,711
Location
Wherever the ESH clubrooms are
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Newcastle, Colorado Rockies.
Who are these non-statistical pressure forwards who dont hit the scoreboard that Richmond have? Pressure forwards aren't new. We knew that was "the Petrenko role" at the time. He just wasn't good enough at it. Not productive enough. Murphy last year was statistically very similar to Petrenko at his best, yet Murphy clearly didn't have an AFL level fitness base.
The best offensive production out of Higgins, Rioli, Edwards, who all started as small forwards in Richmonds preliminary final, was 1.1 goals per game. Their best out of there regulars is 1.2 in Butler and Townsend. Petrenko was considered a non entity offensively a 1 goal a game (which he did average in his past two seasons here).

I'm not saying they are new, i'm saying they've become vital and will only become more vital as time goes on.
 

NikkiNoo

Premium Platinum
Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Posts
17,352
Likes
22,649
Location
in a happy place
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
panthers, ukraine & broncos
I know it was only JLT with little pressure, but has anyone mentioned our precision kicking, working it out of defence and actually around the entire ground. There were some absolute pinpoint Dennis Comettis (centimetre perfect). I've never seen us hit targets like that before.
And under pressure.
 

Shaz2012

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Sep 15, 2012
Posts
6,772
Likes
6,982
AFL Club
Adelaide
The best offensive production out of Higgins, Rioli, Edwards, who all started as small forwards in Richmonds preliminary final, was 1.1 goals per game. Their best out of there regulars is 1.2 in Butler and Townsend. Petrenko was considered a non entity offensively a 1 goal a game (which he did average in his past two seasons here).

I'm not saying they are new, i'm saying they've become vital and will only become more vital as time goes on.
Shane Edwards is not a non-statistical pressure forward like Patrenko. Rioli was a developing first round pick in his 2nd year. Townsend isnt a pressure forward. Butler drafted a year before Rioli, but only in his first season in 2017. Higgins is a first round draft pick that wasnt drafted until after the 2017 grand final.

The thing is Richmond played the cards they had. They didnt have quality talls and they found a system where a fleet of pressure players worked in tandem to get an outcome. Its not like they invented anything either. Hawks won their flags with seriously good pressure forwards that impacted the score board. Richmond nowhere near as good as the Hawks. And no thanks to an absolutely shitful performance from us, home ground advantage, umpiring advantage, match review panel advantage and good luck with them not having to face Smith/Gov. I give them credit, but lets not start thinking the magic formula is Dan ******* Butler types.

I'm not sure Butler gets much game time in 2019. I dont think much has changed since Patrenko's time. You need to apply pressure. Cyril Rioli and/or Poppy are the type of players that we need to replicate. Not Butler or Patrenko.
 

BRL121

Premiership Player
Joined
Jun 21, 2014
Posts
3,520
Likes
3,653
AFL Club
Adelaide
Some pretty average JLT highlights on the AFL Website, saved by Eddie's goal at number 2, and Rankine's at number 1. Eddie's much more spectacular than Rankine's, in my view.
 

kulak

Club Legend
Joined
May 16, 2006
Posts
2,432
Likes
2,975
Location
Sydney!!!
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
GWS
Shane Edwards is not a non-statistical pressure forward like Patrenko. Rioli was a developing first round pick in his 2nd year. Townsend isnt a pressure forward. Butler drafted a year before Rioli, but only in his first season in 2017. Higgins is a first round draft pick that wasnt drafted until after the 2017 grand final.

The thing is Richmond played the cards they had. They didnt have quality talls and they found a system where a fleet of pressure players worked in tandem to get an outcome. Its not like they invented anything either. Hawks won their flags with seriously good pressure forwards that impacted the score board. Richmond nowhere near as good as the Hawks. And no thanks to an absolutely shitful performance from us, home ground advantage, umpiring advantage, match review panel advantage and good luck with them not having to face Smith/Gov. I give them credit, but lets not start thinking the magic formula is Dan ******* Butler types.

I'm not sure Butler gets much game time in 2019. I dont think much has changed since Patrenko's time. You need to apply pressure. Cyril Rioli and/or Poppy are the type of players that we need to replicate. Not Butler or Patrenko.
Correct

Remember the “frontal pressure” era? That term was pretty popular early NC era if I recall.

Forwards have been expected to contribute defensively for years.

And Hawks the model we should look to replicate, not Tigers.
 
Joined
May 21, 2001
Posts
49,196
Likes
38,033
Location
Floating around the Universe
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Adelaide Crows
No, I'm not saying that. And you know damn well I picked Petrenko's faults to a tee, with the rest of the board (and the club) waking up to them about 24 months after I started calling him on them. The reasons he was delisted were the same flaws I spotted in his game when I made that call.

Knight has more ability than Petrenko ever did, but he's also got a lot more competition for his spot in the team.
Knight's main competition is himself... staying injury free.

If he manages continuity, he is a lock for best 22, but if he doesn't, he will struggle to remain on our list.
 

Paladin

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Sep 4, 2008
Posts
8,784
Likes
13,569
Location
Adelaide
AFL Club
Adelaide
No, I'm not saying that. And you know damn well I picked Petrenko's faults to a tee, with the rest of the board (and the club) waking up to them about 24 months after I started calling him on them. The reasons he was delisted were the same flaws I spotted in his game when I made that call.

Knight has more ability than Petrenko ever did, but he's also got a lot more competition for his spot in the team.
You also said Charlie Cameron was no good and that no team would trade a pick inside 20 for him! :)
 

Vader

Sith Lord
Joined
Oct 14, 2005
Posts
39,507
Likes
19,448
Location
Canberra
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Norwood, Adelaide Crows
Knight's main competition is himself... staying injury free.

If he manages continuity, he is a lock for best 22, but if he doesn't, he will struggle to remain on our list.
I agree that staying injury free is vitally important for him right now. However, with players like Jones/McHenry/Gallucci/Murphy breathing down his neck, I don't believe that he's a "lock" for the 22 even if he does remain fit. The position is his to lose, but there are a number of very talented and very hungry young players who are gunning for his place in the side.
 

spexau

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Posts
8,230
Likes
6,654
Location
Adelaide
AFL Club
Adelaide
We also have some of the best kicks in the comp, Smith, Milera, Seeds, Atkins and Tex.

That’s moving the ball out defence, through the middle to half forward if we can move the ball on our terms, that’s the hard part as the opposition will obviously try and impede our ball movement.
Gibbs, Lynch (when he's on)
 

Sanders

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Posts
25,226
Likes
32,321
AFL Club
Adelaide
Depends what your after in your team now doesn't it

Premiership > Competitive for 20 years
Did you think channeling your inner 9 year old to make an already reductive argument look sillier was going to help?

Maybe listen to some people who are smarter than you and ask questions about why they think the way they do?
 

marty36

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Posts
20,587
Likes
7,276
Location
Adelaide
AFL Club
Adelaide
Did you think channeling your inner 9 year old to make an already reductive argument look sillier was going to help?

Maybe listen to some people who are smarter than you and ask questions about why they think the way they do?
Very hard to find anyone smarter than me as I'm only chatting with you atm

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
Top Bottom