Game Day JLT Community Series - Carlton v Melbourne Game Day Discussion/Autopsy

Mar 19, 2014
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Reading the past couple of pages we seem to be very concerned about Melbournes list when really we need to keep an eye on our list and hope that a majority of our young fellas come through. Melb are on track to have a good season and should be locking in a top 8 position if they are on track with their rebuild.

I also find it amusing that so called greats of the game are saying Melbourne are the real deal this week after beating Carlton who finished 14th last year? You think they would of made a bit more noise last week after beating the dogs. Our 3rd game will give us a much clearer picture of how we are travelling and how we will set up structually.
 
Looks like Tarzan plays like Jane. Rather Casboult or even Rowe.

So would I, but if you're arguing as to his quality as a footballer you've missed the point. Nobody will have any arguments with you that he's an ordinary footballer.

The fact is we're very thin on the ground when it comes to rucks - even when they are at full strength. Once we lose one or two - as is the case currently - those losses are significant.

Who came in when Phillips missed a month or so of senior football last year? We had a very clear preference to keep Casboult and Rowe out of the ruck as much as possible.
 

My name geoff

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Petracca will be that player. Also Viney and Oliver could become as good as any of Hawthorns midfielders were.
They were very organised and although it was only a practice match it was hard not to be impressed. I think they'll end up 7 or 8

I too think they'll be in the 8 but I cant see either Oliver or Viney becoming Sam Mitchell in the foreseeable future. I cant really see any Melbourne mids dominating a Cripps, Fyfe, Kennedy, Bontempelli, Sheil etc at the stoppage either.
 

JohnnyFontane90

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Cripps, Murphy, Gibbs, Fisher, SPS, C.Curnow, Cuningham...

Now that I've seen Charlie and fisher play on the ball, I'm pretty confident we have some pretty good talent in the middle, just up to the coaches to get them all playing close to their best ASAP.

Plus you throw in the extra rotations from Ed, Palmer and Smedts, depending on whether Bolton can get the best out of these guys, then we are going to be a lot better this year than last.
charlie curnow can make a difference this year and cunningham will be solid, but fisher & SPS are still too green to consistently compete against mature bodies this season. do i like them for the future? you bet i do, but right now there's a serious gap between ours midfield and most of the sides we'll be playing. at the moment palmer is problaby our 5 midfielder. for melbourne that guy is probably tyson or petracca. our depth is just not there right now
 
Aug 22, 2014
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I too think they'll be in the 8 but I cant see either Oliver or Viney becoming Sam Mitchell in the foreseeable future. I cant really see any Melbourne mids dominating a Cripps, Fyfe, Kennedy, Bontempelli, Sheil etc at the stoppage either.

In fairness, Hawthorn won three in a row with guys like Hodge, Mitchell and Lewis as their front line mids. None of them would dominate a Cripps, Fyfe, Kennedy etc. type at stoppages either. Having a freakish midfielder is all well and good, but if your tenth best mid is on par with your opponent's fourth best mid then you're doing bloody well.

That's where Melbourne are headed, I feel. On paper, their midfield group is chock full of quality players, they have a serviceable defense, and their forward line is young but very talented.

Given time, I'd hope that we overtake them. Our backline will rival the best the game has ever seen, our forward line has some promising young players who will take a while to hit their stride, and our midfield is top and bottom heavy with some older senior blokes hanging on and a heap of young guys yet to break out. When our mids and forward catch up with our backline, we'll be in a great position.
 

Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods

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Lol so true!

I just don't see any dominant player in the middle for them. They have really good players in Viney, Tyson, Oliver, Jones, Brayshaw and Lewis, but tell me which one of these players is unstoppable like a Cripps, Fyfe, Dangerfield, Kennedy, Pendlebury, Ablett, Bont, and I believe in 2017 C.Curnow..

Melbourne's only dominant players are Gawn, Petracca and Hogan but for some reason Gawn can't dominate against Kruezer so I think we will monster their midfield.
Jones is severely underrated by most.
 
Nov 4, 2003
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They're not out and out inside bulls, but Brayshaw, Petracca, Jones, Tyson, Oliver and Lewis aren't going to roll over and cop it either.

That spread of ball-winning ability ensures that they don't need a traditional inside player (or pairing) if they structure correctly at the stoppage. Failing that, they have a few bigger bodied players who could move into the role, namely Wagner, and their new rookie Maynard.
 

My name geoff

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In fairness, Hawthorn won three in a row with guys like Hodge, Mitchell and Lewis as their front line mids. None of them would dominate a Cripps, Fyfe, Kennedy etc. type at stoppages either. Having a freakish midfielder is all well and good, but if your tenth best mid is on par with your opponent's fourth best mid then you're doing bloody well.

That's where Melbourne are headed, I feel. On paper, their midfield group is chock full of quality players, they have a serviceable defense, and their forward line is young but very talented.

Given time, I'd hope that we overtake them. Our backline will rival the best the game has ever seen, our forward line has some promising young players who will take a while to hit their stride, and our midfield is top and bottom heavy with some older senior blokes hanging on and a heap of young guys yet to break out. When our mids and forward catch up with our backline, we'll be in a great position.

When you have a player like Cripps at the coal face that puts any side at a massive advantage. He is one of the 'once in generation' types who can carry a midfield, and his presence can expedite the progress of our younger players.

Even though the likes of C.Curnow, Fisher, SPS and Cuningham are still very raw, I still feel that they can be meaningful contributors if Kruezer, Cripps, Murph, Gibbs and possibly Palmer have PB years. Dunkley, Bontempelli, Mclean and Daniel at the bulldogs are already gun premiership midfielders and all were 20 and under last year.

I don't feel Melbourne have an answer to Cripps, and now that we have a better equipped midfield now than last year with Fisher, SPS, C.Curnow and Palmer all looking like solid additions, we will be hard to stop out of the middle when Cripps is on song.
 
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My brother just called me from on the road saying that Dermie was on SEN. Said he hadn't seen the game but heard from a dees player that played against us on the weekend that we were the most disorganised team this player had ever seen.

Now I didn't hear Dermie, but I watched the game and counted around 9 players that hadn't played or had played very little for the navy blues. That's over a 3rd of the team! We rotated players differently and, from Bolton himself after the game, we tried new things and played players out of position. Why is 1 loss in a scratch match becoming an issue? It's always disappointing losing a game no matter when we play, but Cunningham, C.Curnow, McKay, Marchbank, Smedts, LeBois, Pickett, Fisher, Palmer etc have (mostly) never played a game with us!

I also heard myself this morning Garry Lyon and Tim Watson talking about our season ahead. Watson thinks we will be ok recruiting kids for the future but we will finish 17th. Garry on the other hand had nothing nice to say. He thinks our bookends aren't great (doesn't think Plowman will play 200 games and doesn't seem sold on Marchbank) and thinks we are well behind the dees (which really we are considering they've been rebuilding for about 7 years)! Just amazed at all the negativity. Yes, our list is young but it isn't poor. It's going to take time to get the kids where we need them. Also, it was funny to hear Lyon saying that SOS recruited Jacksh to the blues! If you want to hear a true perspective on our list, listen to the Carlton Club podcast. Lyon has hated the blues for a while. We are on the right track and have some great bookends for once! And yes plowman will play 200 games. As will Marchbank and weitering. And that backline will keep us in good stead for the next 10 years.
C.Curnow, McKay, Silvagni and co will be fine for the next 10 years up forward. We just need another 5 Cripps' and 5 Judd's!


Garry Lyon and Tim Watson :straining:


Good lord!
 
Aug 22, 2014
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When you have a player like Cripps at the coal face that puts any side at a massive advantage. He is one of the 'once in generation' types who can carry a midfield, and his presence can expedite the progress of our younger players.

Even though the likes of C.Curnow, Fisher, SPS and Cuningham are still very raw, I still feel that they can be meaningful contributors if Kruezer, Cripps, Murph, Gibbs and possibly Palmer have PB years. Dunkley, Bontempelli, Mclean and Daniel at the bulldogs are already gun premiership midfielders and all were 20 and under last year.

I don't feel Melbourne have an answer to Cripps, and now that we have a better equipped midfield now than last year with Fisher, SPS, C.Curnow and Palmer all looking like solid additions, we will be hard to stop out of the middle when Cripps is on song.

And when your once-in-a-generation midfielder is feeding the ball to blokes getting outmatched by their direct opponents...

A midfield is more than just one gun player. Having the gun helps, but it's by no means a panacea for a lack of depth. We've finally cottoned on to that truth, which is why we've focused on hitting the top end of the draft hard and topping up with bargain, role-playing free agents, rather than throwing everything at a Treloar or Boyd type deal.

Melbourne have done the same recently, bringing in guys like Vince and Lewis to help mould their young, talented core into a quality side. GWS did the same, while Gold Coast threw all their eggs into the Ablett basket at the expense of good overall list development.
 

My name geoff

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And when your once-in-a-generation midfielder is feeding the ball to blokes getting outmatched by their direct opponents...

A midfield is more than just one gun player. Having the gun helps, but it's by no means a panacea for a lack of depth. We've finally cottoned on to that truth, which is why we've focused on hitting the top end of the draft hard and topping up with bargain, role-playing free agents, rather than throwing everything at a Treloar or Boyd type deal.

Melbourne have done the same recently, bringing in guys like Vince and Lewis to help mould their young, talented core into a quality side. GWS did the same, while Gold Coast threw all their eggs into the Ablett basket at the expense of good overall list development.
I get that, which is why i said that adding SPS, Fisher, C.Curnow, and Palmer to our midfield will make us hard to beat in there. Because last year Cripps was playing a lone hand along with Gibbs for much of the year.

We still beat Melbourne's midfield last year with Cripps and Gibbs both playing blinders, and now that we could potentially add Murphy, C.Curnow, Fisher, SPS and Palmer into the mix as solid contributors, we will be a tougher to beat this year in my opinion.
 

gbatman

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Again, it was a practice match and our first for the year. Lots of new players for the club and players not playing in their positions. Bolts worked the interchange differently as well.

Yeah well considered. Melbourne may also be a fairly good side. We looked about as expected. Most worrying signs are the way we went about it, just far too much 3rd gear stuff, not enough push. If that's still there come the real stuff then we have problems. No doubt a lot of building to do for us. Happy with how a lot of the younger ones went.
 
Wallsy is he still around ?
Trump has asked him to stand at the border. Waiting for Mexico to stump up for the air fares.
 

Soapy V

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With Marchbank playing the intercept/rebound role, it wouldn't be at all.

Docherty is vital in defence. We lack genuine run and depth back there and he needs to keep developing a combination with Weitering Marchbank & Plowman. The midfield has options and youth coming through. Needs to develop and the more time Cuningham Charlie Fisher SPS Polson get through there the better.
 
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SafeAsMilk

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Docherty is vital in defence. We lack genuine run and depth back there and he needs to keep developing a combination with Weitering Marchbank & Plowman. The midfield has options and youth coming through. Needs to develop and the more time Cuningham Charlie Fisher SPS Polson get through there the better.

I'm sure next week would be fine, though.
 

ParapMarkets

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I get that, which is why i said that adding SPS, Fisher, C.Curnow, and Palmer to our midfield will make us hard to beat in there. Because last year Cripps was playing a lone hand along with Gibbs for much of the year.

We still beat Melbourne's midfield last year with Cripps and Gibbs both playing blinders, and now that we could potentially add Murphy, C.Curnow, Fisher, SPS and Palmer into the mix as solid contributors, we will be a tougher to beat this year in my opinion.
I think making comparisons on one isolated game is dangerous. Melbourne fell in a hole by the time they played us last year. I saw quite a few St Kilda supporters on the main board trying to call Weitering crap on account of Membrey kicking some goals against us. One game isn't a season.

At the moment we have very poor midfield depth, hopefully SPS and fisher can help bolster us in there.
 

My name geoff

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I think making comparisons on one isolated game is dangerous. Melbourne fell in a hole by the time they played us last year. I saw quite a few St Kilda supporters on the main board trying to call Weitering crap on account of Membrey kicking some goals against us. One game isn't a season.

At the moment we have very poor midfield depth, hopefully SPS and fisher can help bolster us in there.
Yes I agree, but having said that, we won seven games last year all due to midfield dominance and a strong defence.

We have now added at least 4 players to the midfield mix who are probably going to contribute more quality than our 4th best mid last year. That shouldn't be underestimated.

I think we will surprise many teams this year as I was surprised myself on Saturday. I didn't factor in that Charlie and Fisher would be solid midfield contributors this year, but on the showing against Melbourne, I think they most definitely will.
 

mjonc43

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Perspective. A low ranked team lost to an emerging team.

Try being a Liverpool supporter as well :-(
 

Soapy V

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At the moment we have very poor midfield depth, hopefully SPS and fisher can help bolster us in there.

We fall away badly after Murphy Gibbs Cripps & Curnow. Palmer Wright will be handy. There is potential with Charlie Fisher Polson SPS Sumner & Cuningham but they need time and will need to be played. Another reason why we will be up and down in our performances.
 
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