JLT Round 2 vs Western Bulldogs

[jackess]

He's in his second year relax... he's just spent most of the off season bulking up significantly. Let him develop a bit ghee. A bit of second year blues is more than understandable let alone expected. I can't think of a player on recent times who hasn't gone through it, based on today maybe hipwood will be the first.

It's not that it's the fact he doesn't show any traits of someone you'd expect to make it in the AFL. He's slow, poorly skilled and is terrible under the pressure. He's coming from a long way back to make it. Hopefully we play Matho ahead of him.

 

[LongLion]

I don't resile from any of my previous comments. TBH I think Archie has been indulged to a great extent because he is starting from a very low experience base. Which is fair enough as he has very clear physical skills including a tremendous leap and might well be a great return on investment.

To the specific point- fair enough, Archie has shown improvement in his defence. Now if he can translate that to marking and attack on the pill then we will be approaching something like the finished product.

Can not agree with you. Have always likes Archies attack on the ball and the player. Very good with 2nd efforts on the ground.

 

[Dalions]

KB is on board the Hipwood train

His attributes certainly sound A Grade forward talent dont they.
He's tall, he's agile, he's got speed, good endurance, he can take a mark, crashes packs, good at ground level, can be a very good kick, maybe set shot kicking needs some work going off last year.
But all round he is everything you would look for in a Key Forward Prospect.
Potential plus. The thought of Hippy and Schache in the forward line together for the next 10 yrs is exciting isnt it.

 

[jackess]

I'm guessing Archie and Stef started playing footy at a similar age. Considering how long Stef took I think we've done well with Archie.

 

[Leemas]

It's not that it's the fact he doesn't show any traits of someone you'd expect to make it in the AFL. He's slow, poorly skilled and is terrible under the pressure. He's coming from a long way back to make it. Hopefully we play Matho ahead of him.

Sometimes I wonder if you actually watch football.

A second year player coming from a 'long way back' all this based off of one poor preseason game? He showed good signs last year, excellent signs as a junior at both 18s and NEAFL which you clearly have not watched if you think he's coming from that far back.

Kids got the drive and tenacity to improve on aspects of his game. Jesus I'm glad you're not the coach I for one reckon Keays will be an excellent player for us in the future. But how much do you expect from a second year player? He's clearly ahead of most of the other second years bar hipwood who has come along at a more rapid rate than anyone would have thought.

Living up to your name with that statement bud.

 

[Leemas]

I don't resile from any of my previous comments. TBH I think Archie has been indulged to a great extent because he is starting from a very low experience base. Which is fair enough as he has very clear physical skills including a tremendous leap and might well be a great return on investment.

To the specific point- fair enough, Archie has shown improvement in his defence. Now if he can translate that to marking and attack on the pill then we will be approaching something like the finished product.

Even the commentators were commenting on Archie's physicality. His attack on the pill is his best asset at the moment, they were comparing him to Shane Mumford too the hardest ruckmen in the game?

 

[LongLion]

Sometimes I wonder if you actually watch football.

A second year player coming from a 'long way back' all this based off of one poor preseason game? He showed good signs last year, excellent signs as a junior at both 18s and NEAFL which you clearly have not watched if you think he's coming from that far back.

Kids got the drive and tenacity to improve on aspects of his game. Jesus I'm glad you're not the coach I for one reckon Keays will be an excellent player for us in the future. But how much do you expect from a second year player? He's clearly ahead of most of the other second years bar hipwood who has come along at a more rapid rate than anyone would have thought.

Living up to your name with that statement bud.

I'm agreeing with you Leemas

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

It's not that it's the fact he doesn't show any traits of someone you'd expect to make it in the AFL. He's slow, poorly skilled and is terrible under the pressure. He's coming from a long way back to make it. Hopefully we play Matho ahead of him.

I love Matho but to be fair his disposal under pressure is also lacking at this stage. Keays strikes me as the sort who will improve through sheer will as much as anything. He may not make it but bit early to be calling it from the sidelines in my view.

 

[jackess]

Sometimes I wonder if you actually watch football.

A second year player coming from a 'long way back' all this based off of one poor preseason game? He showed good signs last year, excellent signs as a junior at both 18s and NEAFL which you clearly have not watched if you think he's coming from that far back.

Kids got the drive and tenacity to improve on aspects of his game. Jesus I'm glad you're not the coach I for one reckon Keays will be an excellent player for us in the future. But how much do you expect from a second year player? He's clearly ahead of most of the other second years bar hipwood who has come along at a more rapid rate than anyone would have thought.

Living up to your name with that statement bud.

Not from one game. I have watched football before. Actually pretty much everyone of our games for close to 20 years. I've seen Keays play before and my opinion is based off all the footy I've seen him play. He didn't play good footy last year.

I expect signs. Like Leigh says about forwards; you need signs. Moreso from midfielders you expect a more complete game. Keays really struggles in almost all aspects.

Learn to read.

 

[jackess]

I love Matho but to be fair his disposal under pressure is also lacking at this stage. Keays strikes me as the sort who will improve through sheer will as much as anything. He may not make it but bit early to be calling it from the sidelines in my view.

What's his ceiling though? His disposal is never going to be first rate and he'll never be quick by any definition so he's not going to hurt teams with his disposal. He's a small midfielder and seems to really struggle in the contest so he'll need a lot of improvement to his inside game.

 

[Leemas]

Not from one game. I have watched football before. Actually pretty much everyone of our games for close to 20 years. I've seen Keays play before and my opinion is based off all the footy I've seen him play. He didn't play good footy last year.

I expect signs. Like Leigh says about forwards; you need signs. Moreso from midfielders you expect a more complete game. Keays really struggles in almost all aspects.

Learn to read.

You're judging him as a midfielder when he's never played in the midfield at AFL level. I think there lies your problem Jackess. Keays has been played as a pressure forward for his career as he matures we will watch him translate into the midfield where he does his best work. He has shown plenty of signs and he currently averages more contested than uncontested possessions so not sure there is much basis for your 'seems to struggle in the contest' line.

What 'seems' to me is you don't have a very good grasp on football if you're willing to throw in the towel on a second year kid. There's a reason he's played more games than matho and why he consistently has been getting the nod before him.

As far as his upside goes? Plays like Dayne Beams through the midfield and can pop up forward and find the goals.

 

[Haso]

Time to get euphoric yous guys.

 

[Leuy LongerCombo]

On Bewick, he always struck me as the type of player, an astute club with good structures like the Crows, Hawks or Swans could pick up and turn into a very solid best 18 type. He has some really nice attributes, hopefully these past couple of trial games, builds momentum for a good season.

 

[jackess]

You're judging him as a midfielder when he's never played in the midfield at AFL level. I think there lies your problem Jackess. Keays has been played as a pressure forward for his career as he matures we will watch him translate into the midfield where he does his best work. He has shown plenty of signs and he currently averages more contested than uncontested possessions so not sure there is much basis for your 'seems to struggle in the contest' line.

What 'seems' to me is you don't have a very good grasp on football if you're willing to throw in the towel on a second year kid. There's a reason he's played more games than matho and why he consistently has been getting the nod before him.

As far as his upside goes? Plays like Dayne Beams through the midfield and can pop up forward and find the goals.

You still have to have at least one of speed, disposal or a clean, contested ball winner. He hasn't shown he'll be capable of any of that. It's one thing to win contested footy (he still doesn't win a lot) but then he actually has to use it well, which he doesn't.

I'm not throwing in the towel; I'm saying he has a lot to improve and that he really can't rely on natural ability which makes it very tough. What is that reason? Because Leppa was stupidly playing him as a defensive forward where he struggled to contribute anything towards the teams performance?

I'd like to see him win some contested footy and feed it out cleanly and actually look dangerous up forward before comparing him to Beams.

 

[John_Proctor]

Not from one game. I have watched football before. Actually pretty much everyone of our games for close to 20 years. I've seen Keays play before and my opinion is based off all the footy I've seen him play. He didn't play good footy last year.

I expect signs. Like Leigh says about forwards; you need signs. Moreso from midfielders you expect a more complete game. Keays really struggles in almost all aspects.

Learn to read.

Jackess I'm with you. At the ground I thought Keays had a very poor game last night (my dad who I was watching with agreed) and I didn't see much last night that was very different to last year.

I do agree with others that as a second year players its too early to say he won't make it but at the moment the signs don't look promising.

He doesn't seem to have any stand out attribute (aside from professionalism) that will get him to the top, he isn't clean picking the ball up (especially yesterday), he doesn't find much of the ball (even as a small forward averageing 8 disposals last year wasn't enough), isn't particularly strong overhead, not particularly fast, and his kicking is a touch slow/awkward.

Hope we are proven wrong but if you offered me the line on him getting to 100 games I'd bet against it.

 

[John_Proctor]

I don't resile from any of my previous comments. TBH I think Archie has been indulged to a great extent because he is starting from a very low experience base. Which is fair enough as he has very clear physical skills including a tremendous leap and might well be a great return on investment.

To the specific point- fair enough, Archie has shown improvement in his defence. Now if he can translate that to marking and attack on the pill then we will be approaching something like the finished product.

I don't think Archie is 'soft' but I think in set marking contests he still needs to work on his body positioning. can be pushed off the ball a bit easily and/or get held out when he should make a spoil. I think his contested marks often come when he can run at the ball a bit more and hit a pack. also clearly a tough tackler in close.

 

[Mr Ripper]

You can't judge Keays until he's given a good run at it through the midfield.

 

[BlackGun1]

Jackess I'm with you. At the ground I thought Keays had a very poor game last night (my dad who I was watching with agreed) and I didn't see much last night that was very different to last year.

I do agree with others that as a second year players its too early to say he won't make it but at the moment the signs don't look promising.

He doesn't seem to have any stand out attribute (aside from professionalism) that will get him to the top, he isn't clean picking the ball up (especially yesterday), he doesn't find much of the ball (even as a small forward averageing 8 disposals last year wasn't enough), isn't particularly strong overhead, not particularly fast, and his kicking is a touch slow/awkward.

Hope we are proven wrong but if you offered me the line on him getting to 100 games I'd bet against it.

Very poor comment. Impossible to win the footy with the position he was playing last year.

He had 17 disposals last night which was more than half of the team. I tend to agree with the general consensus in that in terms of natural ability (atheltically and technically) he's definitely on the lower end of the scale, but his attitude and vigour that he brings to every game is something that coaches froth, and as such he will continue to get picked ahead of those that may be more talented.

His hands coming out of the contest (when under pressure) are quite good I think. Its when he has a bit of time he tends to utensil it up.

 

[jackess]

I don't think Archie is 'soft' but I think in set marking contests he still needs to work on his body positioning. can be pushed off the ball a bit easily and/or get held out when he should make a spoil. I think his contested marks often come when he can run at the ball a bit more and hit a pack. also clearly a tough tackler in close.

I think that's the issue. He doesn't know how to take contested marks and it comes down to body positioning, not softness.

You can't judge Keays until he's given a good run at it through the midfield.

What attribute will allow him to play midfield at a high standard?

 

[royboys4eva]

Keays was poor last night - must have fumbled half a dozen times and he did this in the first game as well. That said he is a second year player who has plenty of time in front of him. He was highly rated in the under 18's and won plenty of ball through the middle. He won't get to play midfield for the Lions for a few years. I give him credit for never dropping his head and he continued to present. I am confident in time he will be a good player for our club. Let's not forget many second year mids don't even get close to playing senior footy. The clubs at the top have the luxury of easing them into the fold after 40-50 reserves games. If Keays can get another 10-12 senior games into his body this year that will be a good result.

 

[BlackGun1]

I think that's the issue. He doesn't know how to take contested marks and it comes down to body positioning, not softness.



What attribute will allow him to play midfield at a high standard?

One of the best runners at the club?

 

[Leemas]

I think that's the issue. He doesn't know how to take contested marks and it comes down to body positioning, not softness.



What attribute will allow him to play midfield at a high standard?

His running capacity and football knowledge, good hands tight in the contest. All evident in NEAFL matches where he played through the middle. Knows where to run and his running ability alllows him to push forward free and provide a scoring option.

 

[jackess]

His running capacity and football knowledge, good hands tight in the contest. All evident in NEAFL matches where he played through the middle. Knows where to run and his running ability alllows him to push forward free and provide a scoring option.

You have a lot of faith that performing well in 5 games in the NEAFL last year will allow him to do the same in the AFL.

 

[Mr Ripper]

What attribute will allow him to play midfield at a high standard?

Gets his hands on the nut. Pretty good starting point to have as a mid.

 

[Leemas]

You have a lot of faith that performing well in 5 games in the NEAFL last year will allow him to do the same in the AFL.

When you're too good for the NEAFL at age 18 I'm willing to put a bit of faith in kid. Especially when I know that he has an incredible work ethic and the fact he's only in his second year. If we was in his fourth or fifth year and he was performing like that sure strike a line through him. But come on to claim he hasn't shown signs is a little ridiculous.

The NEAFL performances also include when he was a 16 & 17 year old junior. I've seen a lot of Keays play.