Game Day JLT Week 3 - Carlton vs Hawthorn Game Day Discussion/Autopsy

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Any chance of hitting 100 pages from a JLT match?

Maybe not

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Any chance of hitting 100 pages from a JLT match?

But this helps

 

[thylacine60]

Any chance of hitting 100 pages from a JLT match?

say again?

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

say again?

 

[Jabba73]

What is going on here?

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

You could of all helped my threads out, campaigners

 

[Tambourine]

Negatives show why two cents doesn’t have a considerable value anymore. Thomas cooked? Offers so many intangibles. Curnow? Mature body we need, more intangibles. Dow is ready, like all talented kids he will try that junior and high school stuff every now and then and get caught out. He is fine. Jones? Jeez... Nuff said.

Was just trying to revive a dying thread. Chill man

 

[Blubagger71]

Always chilled. Just like this thread might need to be packed in ice.

 

[Navara79]

say again?

I said!?!

 

[Dadda Dave]

Always chilled. Just like this thread might need to be packed in ice.

Eskie might be able to help out with that.

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

She's as cold as ice......

 

[ParapMarkets]

I think this is very optimistic. Richmond haven't been placed under pressure like that because they've caused the opposition to crumple under the weight of their tackling, then they've just flicked it clear and run away. Our tackle numbers are sitting fairly low, but that's a gameplay based thing; we've always been a high possession team under Bolts. The new running game will make us a bit more vulnerable to sides like Richmond, who will have watch our preseason running patterns and have started to rub their hands; can individuals beat them for running speed? Sure. Are they going to be quicker across the board? Absolutely they are.

Finally was able to watch the game; had a cricket grand final to attend.

We weren't as clean from the get go, and we REALLY got opened up more than once, over the course of the entire match. They, by rights, should have won that; not due to their inaccuracy at goal, but the sheer amount of scrubbed kicks, dropped marks and frankly shitty handballs. You can argue their execution should've been better, but according to reports they limited their interchanges where we didn't.

From the positive side of things, Thomas was there in almost every single scoring chain in the first half, either playing smart without taking possession or forming part of a handball chain to get the ball somewhere dangerous. That was, as far as I'm concerned, the best game he's played in our jumper; he played to a position, a rarity for him, and he played at a level I'd be comfortable seeing in the ones. Lamb was capable, and Ed was far better than week 1; he still has work to do, though. Dow had a wakeup call; it's not always going to be that easy, and it's good that it came now rather than next week. Cripps was good without being outstanding, but Kennedy was terrific. He plays as smart as any inside player I've ever seen, and he'll either knock the ball for someone else to run onto, or take possession himself, and he tackles hard. Weitering was just so rusty early, but came back into the game late to turn an average performance into a good one.

Fisher was the difference in the first half, being too fast for their mids and being clean enough to dispose to advantage and get the ball outside. As the game progressed, he faded a bit, but we'll hopefully see more performances like that. Pickett was good without being great; 2 goals is awesome, but I want more than just the 7 possessions.

Onto the negatives.

We lost our structure as a consequence of some of the attempts at fast breaks, which provided them with one on ones in their forward line with our backs out of position. This is dangerous, for obvious reasons; good teams will make you pay for turning the ball over in the corridor, as they did last year, but this time around some of the turnovers will be even worse. Bolts and co need to keep their nerve somewhat, and continue to encourage good play, but the attacking NEEDS to come with less of a loss in structure down back, otherwise we'll just leak goals.

We still control the high ball, but the entry into our backline was just too easy some of the time. There was not nearly enough pressure on the ball carrier, and not nearly enough attempts at cutting off the leads. This, I admit, will be down to the loss of Doc; he arranged our back six in such a way as to ensure that, if a player got separation from their man, he or Marshbank or Plow - or Weitering - cut off the lead, marking in front. If this aspect of the game is not improved, in either way, opposition sides that rely purely on turnovers - St Kilda, Hawthorn, Adelaide - will have a field day. You'll notice, in this list, that there are two of the sides we beat in the JLT in there; St Kilda and Hawthorn played with low rotations, where we didn't, and St Kilda were the worst I've seen them over the last three years.

Our talls get in each other's way. We had several chopout kicks to Levi in the first half that he would have swallowed, but for McKay leaping over the back and looking super impressive as he spoiled an easy mark. Also, if I were part of the football department, I'd be having a sneaky word to the umpiring fraternity concerning Hawthorn's tactics to stop Charlie in the second half; instead of trying to go with him, they tunnelled him 3-4 times and blocked him. I don't have a huge issue with blocks - if done subtly, good play - but I do tunnelling; you injure people that way. Our smalls were in the right spots to get shots on goal from play; our talls, though, have a LOT of work to do if they're going to play together consistently.

It's good to win, but this was a much poorer performance than last week. One of the biggest things to come out of it is that Hawthorn are over for my mind. Burgoyne, whilst still a ripper player, is playing like he doesn't trust his teammates (he actually reminds me of the closing days of Cooney's career); Breust and Gunston don't look as assured or as comfortable, safe in that they're not the focal points. They'll be competitive - O'Meara, if he can stay on the park, is an absolute gun, and Mitchell will keep them from getting belted through the middle - but the pieces that made them work have been replaced with players who, frankly, aren't as good yet. Every now and then, you'll see a wormburner of a kick from Smith or Breust to a leading Puopolo, but then you'll see Hardwick or Langford try and do the same and spray it straight down a key defender's throat.

But then, what would I know? After round 1 last year, I said that the match was proof Richmond weren't going anywhere fast.

Good to see the Tasmanian marsupial back. Not the same in his absence.

Can't wait for round 1. Let's see if we can give them a scare.

I don't think it's optimistic, in my opinion the pressure in this game was greater than all the others, regardless of the reasons for why that may be the case. That doesn't mean that I think we will beat them because I don't, the round 1 pressure we will be under will be greater than anything we have experienced in jlt. The premiership for Richmond was based on pressure and their ability to extract maximum value from Dusty through a "team first" attitude by their entire squad. If we miss as many tackles as we did last game this could get messy.

 

[Gethelred]

I don't think it's optimistic, in my opinion the pressure in this game was greater than all the others, regardless of the reasons for why that may be the case. That doesn't mean that I think we will beat them because I don't, the round 1 pressure we will be under will be greater than anything we have experienced in jlt. The premiership for Richmond was based on pressure and their ability to extract maximum value from Dusty through a "team first" attitude by their entire squad. If we miss as many tackles as we did last game this could get messy.

It's not the missed tackles that concern me, it's the loss of structure and our team defense when we turn the ball over in the forward line.

We can live with corralling if, and only if, we slow them down enough to allow our mids and defenders time to set up behind the ball. We can tackle as much as we like, but if we're not set up on the defensive side, we're ****ed.

Apart from that, that's a fair post.

 

[Blueballs38]

Extreme bottom ager. Snuck in by a week. Has had a very bad back injury. Just turned 20 and is a tall. It will be at least a year before we see anywhere near what he can do. 12-15 games this year will do him wonders then another pre season. His training has been excellent.

Get him to 30 plus games and that is where you will see him improve. Daniher last year had a "breakout" year and he is over 80 games

Mixing him between ruck and fwd will really help him develop. Liked some of the things he did in the ruck last night. Signs are very positive IMO

Nice to see a voice of reason amongst sooooo many chicken littles, we as CFC fans for the first time need to show patience ... we have seen where lack of patience has gotten us in the past 20 years .... nowhere!
Patience people patience.
SOS and the rest of CFC are very happy with the young lads progress .... let's not put unrealistic expectations on the lad .... he is doing everything to get there.

 

[jimmyshell]

I disagree. I think it was the most high pressured game of the pre Season, with great pressure comes lots of mistakes. We faced a lot more intense pressure than Richmond have experienced this preseason by a considerable margin.

Good point.

It did feel like a pretty scrappy game where we came off lucky due to hawks inaccuracy and was fairly disappointed. But you’ve put a good silver lining on it.

No better way for our young players to get experience in dealing with scrappy/pressure games as well where every inch counts (think Essendon/blues in the wet east last season).

Let’s just hope the tiges don’t use that pressure to absolutely slaughter us

 

[The Smoking Gun]

I enjoyed reading your post and I agree that some of the tackling efforts in the first half were woeful from too many better than that players....
and the side still managed to conjure a win....apparently the come back from what was it 30 behind half way through the third quarter ??? coincided with Carlton evening up the tackle count from Q3 onwards and winning the contested ball.

Did Hawthorn put the cue in the rack after half time?

Doubt it JaB. What odds could you have got from Sportsbet on Burgoyne kicking 0.5 given how deadly he normally is. I've yet to determine whether Sicily plays for them or us. Either way he gave us 3 goals on a platter. They should've won by 10 in a canter.

But here's the thing.....

They didn't put us away when they had the chance. Our side may be inexperienced and not work as hard as it should, but it is talented and potentially dangerous. If you leave the door ajar those kids will kick it in harder than your average aggravated home invader. Would you or I have dared make that sort of comment 2 years or even 12 months ago???? Absolutely not. So yes we're making progress and going in the right direction.

 

[JustaBattler]

Doubt it JaB. What odds could you have got from Sportsbet on Burgoyne kicking 0.5 given how deadly he normally is. I've yet to determine whether Sicily plays for them or us. Either way he gave us 3 goals on a platter. They should've won by 10 in a canter.

But here's the thing.....

They didn't put us away when they had the chance. Our side may be inexperienced and not work as hard as it should, but it is talented and potentially dangerous. If you leave the door ajar those kids will kick it in harder than your average aggravated home invader. Would you or I have dared make that sort of comment 2 years or even 12 months ago???? Absolutely not. So yes we're making progress and going in the right direction.

It will be another long slog year - maybe a few more wins against more fancied opponents - learning to control the ball between the arcs is not going to be easy. If Fisher continues his form - he will overtake all but Charlie in terms of influence on games, and Pickett gets me excited in open space or anywhere near the goals.
I'd like to see Weitering and Marchbank move out of the defensive fifty at times - Weitering in particular has to make himself more dangerous - I noticed Marchbank was pushed onto a wing for a fair stretch against Hawthorn...Bolton still doesn't have enough classy kicks or developed positional plays to go through the corridor....

but maybe the truth is with this bunch - even the Club doesn't know how well they can play on any given day - they are showing resilience and competitiveness - Dow Charlie Fisher SOJ want to win big time Cripps and Kennedy love the hard stuff - it is a good core to build on.

 

[ParapMarkets]

Doubt it JaB. What odds could you have got from Sportsbet on Burgoyne kicking 0.5 given how deadly he normally is. I've yet to determine whether Sicily plays for them or us. Either way he gave us 3 goals on a platter. They should've won by 10 in a canter.

But here's the thing.....

They didn't put us away when they had the chance. Our side may be inexperienced and not work as hard as it should, but it is talented and potentially dangerous. If you leave the door ajar those kids will kick it in harder than your average aggravated home invader. Would you or I have dared make that sort of comment 2 years or even 12 months ago???? Absolutely not. So yes we're making progress and going in the right direction.

I strongly disagree with the “they should’ve won by 10 in a canter” (unless you mean 10 points). Teams that employ an extreme press, like what Hawthorn produced against us, do leave themselves open for easy goals going the other way. We have the speed to exploit them on the rebound. Whilst their hard, high press was impressive, all it took to have them in deep poo was a mark around our defensive 50m line. The style of game they played favoured them stats-wise but also made them very susceptible to conceding easy goals

How many goals did we score from the goal square? 6 or 7? The Hawks had their shots from much more difficult positions so it stands to reason their accuracy isn’t going to read as well as ours. As for the mistakes, we also handed plenty of goals on a platter to them as well.

We were lucky to win no question, and we wouldn’t want to be expecting to win games like that all year. But we did pressure them into those mistakes and credit there should be given. No way this was anything like a 10 goal game.

 

[The Smoking Gun]

How many goals did we score from the goal square? 6 or 7?

And Sicily put us in the goal square on 3 of those occasions.

The Hawks had their shots from much more difficult positions so it stands to reason their accuracy isn’t going to read as well as ours.

Do you have the Footy Live app??? That will give you a diagram of where the shots of goal were taken from. Hawthorn's inefficiency of conversion wasn't caused by where they took their shots from goal based upon that diagram. It was just poor goal kicking.

But we did pressure them into those mistakes and credit there should be given. No way this was anything like a 10 goal game.

The Hawks 90 tackles to our 52 doesn't support that argument and neither does the 62 inside 50s to our 39, which resulted in them taking 19 marks inside 50 to our 6. IMO we were bloody lucky not to have our arses handed to us.

Edit: Enjoy the conversation and different perspective though mate.

 

[ParapMarkets]

Tackle count is just one part of pressure though, quite often a player would bounce off one tackler, only to have the ball come out from contact with another tackler. They were quite often having shots at goal when 36 players were within 60m of goal, those shots (unless set shots) were generally under much more duress than ours.

Also, one behind would lead to another which would lead to another etc. if the goal was scored in the first place the second and third behind would never have eventuated, Clarkson’s gameplan revolved around this, until a goal was eventually scored (but quite often a goal was leaked).

Anyway, I agree we were very fortunate to win. We do have some weapons now that can hurt going the other way if teams continue to play like this against us (like Charlie’s contested marking ability from kickouts).

 

[gbatman]

The big thing coming from this game is that our young midfielders will have to stand up this season. Gibbs as a key onballer is a loss and Docherty who played a bit in there and I am sure was earmarked to play in there mostly this season is a loss.

Murphy and Cripps are going to be good for us and will have to be. We really need Kennedy to step up. I expect him to be solid as will Curnow. We need plenty out of the Petrevski-Seton, Dow, Lang and Fisher types. Midfield is a tough gig. Physically demanding. We still need to top up our center group. The thing is if we have injuries to key midfielders and the younger guys don't step up then we are in trouble.

Otherwise if they do, we are in for a promising season. We may certainly be looking to add Charlie Curnow into our rotations just to lessen the workload on some.

 

[Blueballs38]

Another thing I noticed after re watching the replay was CC. On paper not an overly massive game, however. Almost EVERY marking contest from D50 to F50 he was in it for the 4 quarters. Didn't notice until I rewatched. Super tank, super competitive. Would have loved to see his Km's travelled.

Pickett's front and centre rove/burst at the start of the third was quick ...... I mean ... the high gather to boot was damn quick.

Anyone doubting whether JSOS isn't best 22 needs to re-watch the full replay. This kid is tough as boot leather. Even got involved at the bottom of the pack in stoppages. His leading patterns and ability to find leading space is probably the best drilled of all our forwards. Whether our mids "use" him is another story for another day.

Lamb could become one of the best defensive forwards in the game if his form continues. He plays right on the edge and seems to respond when the coach ... "gives him a job". Mouthy, niggly little prick, I like him, he has mongrel in spades.

On a Hawthorn note .... Jarman Impey.... what a pick up by the Dorks. Looks like a mini Mr T with attitude to match. Pity the AFL wont let him wear the gold chains. Would be awesome. Much respect for this player. Explosive, goal sense, clean hands and feet. To think they thought he would play on the HB line ...... apparently does not like a bunghole for my tepee from Lamb ... maybe not a Beavis and Butthead fan ....

Along came Jones .... long walking jones ... slow talking Jones .... This man's upper body strength is incredible. His ability to hold position in a one on one or crash through 3 players to get a fist on the ball is something not seen for a long long time. Apart from a few face palm WTF decisions (which cost us) he essentially won the game on the vinegar stroke with that finger tip touch line effort.

Weiterbot and a guy that didn't look like Marchbank in the grey jumper but actually was, what can I say. Marchbank's intercepts have to be re watched to be appreciated because in general live play they look like they were a last minute decision that was an after thought rather than a calculated decision process. Earlier I mentioned Daisy's footy brain .... ummmmmm well the T1000 silicone RipJaw game awareness chip V3.99 installed in Weiterbot takes game awareness to a new level. I swear the bloke has 17 filters of real time visual inputs. These 2 work bloody well together. They feed off each other.

Haven't mention Thomas in this little write up. Game awareness/sense. 10:20 in the third could have ended a whole differently if Cas was there instead of Thomas. Realising that all he had to do was protect the incoming ball and create space, instead of a diving mark that would have ended in a stoppage, he chose a really smart thing to do .... sit of your opponents legs and make it look like you were being dragged backwards ... which freed up space for the ball to be taken and snapped through. This is the sort of split second, smart game sense that's makes me smile from Daisy and leads me to believe he can certainly impact games. Once he realises his body cant do what it once could and concentrates on the things it can STILL do ..... he will value add in 2018. I could have picked a few selfless acts he did through the 4 quarters but this one just made my smile and think you are a canny cagey little bastard still.

I could keep writing because I'm in the mood. But. When there are more cool, nifty, make me smile moments I take out of a game than not. I'm satisfied. The last two games have made me smile more than want to smash the TV so the green shoots are starting to over take the garden as far as I'm concerned.

I see talent in spades across the park (yes still to a larger extent, unproved in battle), but the first 2 practice games of this years is giving me much hope, and a longing for Round 1. I cannot believe the list I am looking at from 3 year ago has under gone 44 list changes. That is UNHEARD of. A ballsy decision that needed to be made. Carlton of 10 years ago would NEVER have done this. They would have culled a few added a few and mediocrity would have reigned. Who knows we may have touched on the eight with a strategy like this and placated the fans for a while.

But buying 4 x 2 home, to bring the bulldozer in a level it V's renovate it is a bloody bold business decisions, but one as fans, we will reap the reward on for the next 5-10 years rather than the next 1-2.

SOS/Bolts you are ******* little rippers. Enjoying the ride.

Bloody good post ... no chicken little here .... well done!

 

[Blueballs38]

Wanted to through a few cents in the ring regarding last nights game.

Levi's ruck work was the best I've seen it, in the third quarter he really seemed to have a connection with the mids which i haven't seen before. I really think he should be spending a lot of time in the ruck and training as a back up ruck, if he doesn't already.

A big tick for me is Fish. Last year i watched this kid many times, thinking, this kid is scared to follow his instincts. It was like he was desperately trying not to stuff up and solely look to bring someone else in to the game instead of taking it on himself. These last two JLT games though, i can slowly see more confidence coming in to his game and it seems he feels like he belongs. If he keeps improving, i think we have a really good player here.

Lastly, Dale Thomas. It is not Dale's fault, that our club offered him a stupid contract, but what was his fault was, cancelling his lucrative extra year on his Carlton contract so he could earn one on merit. He has shown he is there because he wants to play, win and bring through the youngsters and not just to cash in.

Go Blues.

I have to say when we first drafted Fish at 27 I was a bit surprised but still believed in SOS .... was it a reach at the time? I believe it was. That changed very quickly when I saw his first game ... kid just had it ... and you could see it. His hand eye co-ordination was extroadinary and he was an absolute terrier, in everything. His spacial awareness was elite and to me after that first game I thought this kid is a coaches dream .... A bit like Mitch Robinson with his enthusiasm but smart, coachable and talented. One of those players that help gel a team.

He needed to bulk up a little but wow I ha e to say seeing him play this year he has surpassed what I thought he would do this year .... it’s almost like he is ready for a breakout year already.

Is he still legible for the rising star?


If so I’m putting an easy $100 on him!

 

[Sector 7G]

I have to say when we first drafted Fish at 27 I was a bit surprised but still believed in SOS .... was it a reach at the time? I believe it was. That changed very quickly when I saw his first game ... kid just had it ... and you could see it. His hand eye co-ordination was extroadinary and he was an absolute terrier, in everything. His spacial awareness was elite and to me after that first game I thought this kid is a coaches dream .... A bit like Mitch Robinson with his enthusiasm but smart, coachable and talented. One of those players that help gel a team.

He needed to bulk up a little but wow I ha e to say seeing him play this year he has surpassed what I thought he would do this year .... it’s almost like he is ready for a breakout year already.

Is he still legible for the rising star?


If so I’m putting an easy $100 on him!

Thing I like about Fish (and SPS) is when there is a ball indispute on the ground he doesn't just stand where he is waiting for the ball to come out, he moves around the pack to where he thinks the ball is going to come out. Has the focus of a Border Collie waiting for a tennis ball.

 

[Metalcrusher]

Thing I like about Fish (and SPS) is when there is a ball indispute on the ground he doesn't just stand where he is waiting for the ball to come out, he moves around the pack to where he thinks the ball is going to come out. Has the focus of a Border Collie waiting for a tennis ball.

HAHAHAH love that anology!!! Spat my coffee prick!!!