Preview JLT1: Brisbane Lions v Sydney Swans

[jonnobackpocket]

My thoughts from yesterday
GREAT
- Stef Martin: Vintage best. Pitty he doesn't have many more years to go though
- Luey Taylor: Impressive. Loved his work running back into defensive to help move the ball out. Created a few nice chances to switch and get some chain possessions going. Others just stuffed up his good work

GOOD
- Matho: hard at the contest and pretty clean most the time. One of the few to stand under a ball and take a mark or create a contest. Easily best 22
- Rayner: Sure the stats sheets dont agree, but No draftee playing the forward role would have got a look in with the crap that was served up yesterday. Moved around the contest well, had strong pickups. Got unlucky with a few early calls from umps imo. Lions just need to play him as much as possible.
- Luggage: Great when it was his turn to go offensively imo. But was caught ball watching a fair bit when the swans got it. Needs to work on his pressure.
- Payne: Already trust him more then Gardiner types. Big, Strong, doesn't panic on the ball
- Berry: Tried hard but I actually think he is a pretty limited footballer. Might become a Adcock type for us in the future at his best

AVERAGE
- Keays: ok, yesterday I had him as bad but thinking about it he did alright. One of the few that actually put in effort all game, one of the best in the midfield to actually apply pressure (any made countless repeat efforts), and got to a fair few contests. Overall positives, the workrate was certainly there. The negatives are all skill based which I think stems from over thinking and confidence. To me he just needs time to get ball in hand and gain some confidence... I would actually play him in a HB/Wing role much like the swans do with Nic Newman. yesterday he dropped basic marks, rush himself possessing the loose ball and panicked or over thought when on the ball. All sound bad but I think with confidence and time on the ball these can improve.
- Andrews: hands full with buddy. tough day. eventually he will need to start having dominant days against forwards but that should come in time. Took Rance about 4-5 years
- Walker: might have been better then average. Kinda zoned out by the time he came on and my mindset may have been in neagative land haha. Seemed cleaned and more composure then those who started the game

POOR
- Hipwood. Still so skinny and unable to impose himself as a target forward. Doesn't help when he just drops marks after marks. Fagan moved him further up the ground and he had limited influence
- Rich: The most senior player out there and did nothing to help direct the play. It is clear that he is only good when he has another big handful of senior players firing in the team. But we all knew that already anyway. Would be better off not playing him if guys like zorko and beams are rested.
- Mayes: Still plays like he is stuck in Mayes world. Might get some kicks if someone kicks it to him. Looks a quiet player out of the field still and just cruises. Clean when he had it but geez he needs to do more and demand the ball and try creating for the team when things are going bad.

HORRIBLE
- Withers: Defensively useless (but im not sure he has been that great up until this day), but it is his skills which were surprisingly bad. One thing I noticed is that he didn't play on to himself from kickouts & bomb it long to fudge his stats like last year. I always thought the coaches would put a stop to that. Will be interesting to see how his game develops this year. Hopefully just a game to forget and move on.
- Cameron: Pretty much what I was worried we would be trading in. Will be good in a team up and about, but his kicking is like so hit and miss. Was the 6th forward in the #1 attack last year. Now has been asked to play midfield and be a key figure in our attack. I hope he doesn't get away with performances like that during the year
- Mitch Robbo: Young kids were under siege and he did nothing. Horrible game. Did absolutely nothing which is surprising. Usually when the going gets tough he is one to stand up. Game to forget
- Cox: yes he is just a kid, but boy he is timid. Never looked like getting into the game. Had one good run but got caught then it was like "stuff this". Another NEAFL year looming
- Robertson: Starting to feel like he is just in the team to win 3km's now. hat's of to helping Matho over the offseason though. He just lacks so much awareness, loses the ball in flight all the time (horrible for a defender), applies nearly no pressure... like he was literally standing at times around watching swans hand ball around until they got a free player. For someone who is so fit on the track he has nearly no gut run in him. Skills aren't improving either.
- Lester: wouldn't get a game at other clubs. Suppose to be in the leadership group and been around a long time now. Pretty much offers nothing as a footballer
- Barrett: just a NEAFL player giving AFL a crack
- Basti: Glad we had his senior experience to help the kids out. Why we ever recruited him to begin with still amazes me. wouldn't get a game at kangas now and was barely at the time we got him
- Tom Bell: To some he may look good because on the eye he is a big physical presence out there. But boy does he play far from it. Got loads of time in the middle with beams and zorko out as the "big bodied mid" and was fed the ball a bit. What did he do? Blind long bombs forward again, and again and again. Occasionally he mixed it up with kicks out of bounds or on the full. He barely tackled if at all, and certainly didn't use his big frame to wear tackles and feed balls out to mids in better positions. If you were a mid playing alongside him by the end of the game you would even bother trying to receive off him. Hasn't been given and contract extension and I bloody hope he doesn't. Looks like Fagan just tried to see what he could do in the middle after years of failed forward roles. I hope he has his answer now and puts a line through his name.

There is no way in the world you can rate Rayner as good yesterday. It's his first game and I not concerned but that is ludicrous.

 

[bato]

don't think anyone is thinking that at all. People look for improvements in team snippets and individually. Plus a bit of running commentary on preseason... its a footy forum and this is a specific JLT thread

Don't make me trawl through these pages for doomsday predictions.

 

[Forward We Go]

TV

Yeah all subjective mate. What particular points do you disagree with?

Yes, I agree its all subjective. Thats what I like about everyone having a different opinion. If everyone was the same, how boring would that be? lol. I didnt see the game live either but I did speak to a couple of guys after the game who did go & who I value their opinions.
My summary of the players performance is as follows:
Martin: Our best by a long way
Bell: tried hard all day and did Ok. Thought he was in best 5.
Squizzy: Looked dangerous when the ball was in his possession
Berry: tough bugger who will be good for us this year
Matho: got a bit of the ball but murdered it with his poor decision making. Sometimes if a player gets the ball often but consistently turns it over, you are better not to have him on the ground. Matho really helped the Swannies kick goals often.
Rayner: Showed glimpses that are exciting...the ball could not have come into our forward line any worse than it did so everyone who played forward deserves a little latitude. Hope this is not waht we see in season proper.
Bundy: Not impressive at all
Allison: Didint show anything & half way through the game I didnt even think he was playing.
Andrews: Overpowered by a champion & was clearly out of his depth at this stage of his development. Thought he stayed on Buddy a bit longer than he should.
Payne: Did some good things...will be Ok given time
Barrrett: maybe play this season in the NEAFL unless we have injuries that give him an opportunity
Bastinac: Not good. f**'s needs to light his fire again as he did last year and then see how he performs after that.
Cameron: Looked short of a run and maybe tried too hard to do the impossible rather than be a contributer to the team
Cox: Not good. A little like Cameron...tried to take on tacklers and got caught a few times.
Witho: Shocker. Couldn't have played worse if he tried. He will be much better next run
McCluggage: got his hands on the ball a bit but didnt compose himself enough to make effective decisions with the pill. Sometimes looks likes he pulls out of contests...in other words, looked scared.
Hipwood: Interesting game...dont know how you expect a 20 yo to clunk marks when it is brought into his forward territory like it did. 2 goals....1 from inside the centre square. My 2 mates said he was given some pretty rough treatment off the ball early & nobody helped him deal with it. Pretty piss poor really given he's still a kid. Talk about throwing him in the deep end. Expectations of this kid are way too high at this stage of his development.
Keays: 2 goals in the last quarter saved him from having a shocker. Like Clugg, needs to settle a little when he has the ball.
Walker: Showed glimpses. Is an important cog going forward into the season.
N.Robbo: Not good. Although ran all day, his lack of pace is concerning.
M.Robbo: Will be better for the game. He will improve as the season moves forward.
Mayes: Ordinary. Very ordinary
Gardner: As always, tried hard and gave a good effort.
Rich: Expected much better. Seems to be lazy if not given a roast.
McStay: better in backline than forward.
Lester: Ordinary. Went missing often.

Thats it...probably very different to another bunch of posters but thats Ok as well.

 

[Hollow Knight]

The general thought pattern here all pre-season was that the vibe around the club continues to improve but that we have a lot of work to do to get back to contention.

In light of that, I am genuinely taken aback by the level of defeatism here after one pre-season game against a seasoned and well drilled contender (missing our two best players). The game sucked but Christ, some of the reactions...

I had to read some of the posts about Witherden and Cameron a few times to make sure they weren’t satire.

We are going to have more games like that. One of the key growth indicators for us now is how we react, adjust and improve.

 

[snooplions]

I bet if we turn up next week and put in a good showing against the suns all these pessimistic posters will be singing the praises of the players who's careers they've basically dismissed this week. It's a pre-season game, try and have a bit of perspective will yas.

 

[jackess]

The general thought pattern here all pre-season was that the vibe around the club continues to improve but that we have a lot of work to do to get back to contention.

In light of that, I am genuinely taken aback by the level of defeatism here after one pre-season game against a seasoned and well drilled contender. The game sucked but Christ, some of the reactions...

I had to read some of the posts about Witherden and Cameron a few times to make sure they weren’t satire.

We are going to have more games like that. One of the key growth indicators for us now is how we react, adjust and improve.

I bet if we turn up next week and put in a good showing against the suns all these pessimistic posters will be singing the praises of the players who's careers they've basically dismissed this week. It's a pre-season game, try and have a bit of perspective will yas.

I must have missed all these pessimistic posts that came about as a result of yesterday’s game.

We were always going to be hammered. It was a midfield of Kennedy, Parker and Jack vs Bell, Berry and Matho.

I think most of us expect to finish bottom 4 or worse. Would have been nice to have seen something yesterday to give us the hope that wouldn’t be the case but we played like a bottom side missing their best 2 mids against a premiership favourite.

 

[Nunez]

The general thought pattern here all pre-season was that the vibe around the club continues to improve but that we have a lot of work to do to get back to contention.

In light of that, I am genuinely taken aback by the level of defeatism here after one pre-season game against a seasoned and well drilled contender (missing our two best players). The game sucked but Christ, some of the reactions...

I had to read some of the posts about Witherden and Cameron a few times to make sure they weren’t satire.

We are going to have more games like that. One of the key growth indicators for us now is how we react, adjust and improve.

Based off some of the comments I assume the club are relegating themselves to the NEAFL as we have no AFL-grade players.

 

[irel]

Based off some of the comments I assume the club are relegating themselves to the NEAFL as we have no AFL-grade players.

Can we at least stay in the AFL until the conclusion of round six and then make a decision on relegation. I think playing half a dozen competition games should give us some indication if we are NEAFL or AFL standard.

 

[bungalow_bill]

It is easy to say we lack midfield depth and we're ****** Beams & Zorko, but the fact of the matter is our midifield depth is very young and by the time the above retire our young mids will be 50-100 games in. We'll also have added gun draftees and no doubt traded in some older depth.

We went in extremely young midfield yesterday and while we did a great job in contested footy we failed in many other areas. Great lesson for them in how hard they will need to work to be in charge of our engine room.

Long term I'm not worried about our depth at all.

We have the most important pieces in place - KPP's. Mids come on much quicker. Would be concerned if it were the other way around

 

[Lionheart182]

There's no substitute for match practice and yesterday showed that.

 

[Balony_pony16]

There is no way in the world you can rate Rayner as good yesterday. It's his first game and I not concerned but that is ludicrous.

under the circumstances I think he did alright. Didn't hesitate to go for the ball when it was his turn...yes those times were limited, but he was playing in a forward line that had structures failing as bad as they ever were.

I judge draftees on how they get from contest to contest and general skills to start with. Rayner got caught a few times (thought he was stiff to be penalised) but when he did get it he was strong over the ball and clean with his pickups.

 

[briztoon]

Cameron is overrated. Was a frustrating player for crows fans as he turned the ball over more then others, but he was lucky he was the 6th forward in an awesome attack that went all the way to the GF. Should still be handy enough at times but lions got sucked into over paying for a flashy inconsistent player imo. His performance yesterday was of no surprise to me

This.

Said it last year. Not a player to have in a developing team.

 

[Balony_pony16]

The general thought pattern here all pre-season was that the vibe around the club continues to improve but that we have a lot of work to do to get back to contention.

In light of that, I am genuinely taken aback by the level of defeatism here after one pre-season game against a seasoned and well drilled contender (missing our two best players). The game sucked but Christ, some of the reactions...

I had to read some of the posts about Witherden and Cameron a few times to make sure they weren’t satire.

We are going to have more games like that. One of the key growth indicators for us now is how we react, adjust and improve.

Thought the withers comments have mostly been fair. He was horrible but most seem to think it was very uncharacteristic of him. got to call it how you see it

Cameron will split people in opinions imo... but the same people to defend or put down people thoughts that dare criticise Cameron could be the same that did so with Basti. Camerons weakness's yesterday are not a new thing for him if you have actually ever watched him much the past few years. Ive lived it down here footy loads of footy with crow supporters. His best is flashy great, but his worst is horrible. Yesterday we got horrible by standards he was recruited to the club for

 

[Hollow Knight]

Thought the withers comments have mostly been fair. He was horrible but most seem to think it was very uncharacteristic of him. got to call it how you see it

It was the suggestion that his excellent season last year was a myth based on Dreamteam points that made me fall of my chair.

 

[The Bear]

I was watching Witho in the warmup before the game (I was standing right behind the goals at the time). He was hitting targets with absolute bullets.......Then......he kicked one and grabbed at his leg in a little discomfort. From then on, he was spraying them in the warm up. I also noticed him on the bench getting his leg worked on.

 

[Balony_pony16]

Yes, I agree its all subjective. Thats what I like about everyone having a different opinion. If everyone was the same, how boring would that be? lol. I didnt see the game live either but I did speak to a couple of guys after the game who did go & who I value their opinions.
My summary of the players performance is as follows:
Martin: Our best by a long way
Bell: tried hard all day and did Ok. Thought he was in best 5.
Squizzy: Looked dangerous when the ball was in his possession
Berry: tough bugger who will be good for us this year
Matho: got a bit of the ball but murdered it with his poor decision making. Sometimes if a player gets the ball often but consistently turns it over, you are better not to have him on the ground. Matho really helped the Swannies kick goals often.
Rayner: Showed glimpses that are exciting...the ball could not have come into our forward line any worse than it did so everyone who played forward deserves a little latitude. Hope this is not waht we see in season proper.
Bundy: Not impressive at all
Allison: Didint show anything & half way through the game I didnt even think he was playing.
Andrews: Overpowered by a champion & was clearly out of his depth at this stage of his development. Thought he stayed on Buddy a bit longer than he should.
Payne: Did some good things...will be Ok given time
Barrrett: maybe play this season in the NEAFL unless we have injuries that give him an opportunity
Bastinac: Not good. f**'s needs to light his fire again as he did last year and then see how he performs after that.
Cameron: Looked short of a run and maybe tried too hard to do the impossible rather than be a contributer to the team
Cox: Not good. A little like Cameron...tried to take on tacklers and got caught a few times.
Witho: Shocker. Couldn't have played worse if he tried. He will be much better next run
McCluggage: got his hands on the ball a bit but didnt compose himself enough to make effective decisions with the pill. Sometimes looks likes he pulls out of contests...in other words, looked scared.
Hipwood: Interesting game...dont know how you expect a 20 yo to clunk marks when it is brought into his forward territory like it did. 2 goals....1 from inside the centre square. My 2 mates said he was given some pretty rough treatment off the ball early & nobody helped him deal with it. Pretty piss poor really given he's still a kid. Talk about throwing him in the deep end. Expectations of this kid are way too high at this stage of his development.
Keays: 2 goals in the last quarter saved him from having a shocker. Like Clugg, needs to settle a little when he has the ball.
Walker: Showed glimpses. Is an important cog going forward into the season.
N.Robbo: Not good. Although ran all day, his lack of pace is concerning.
M.Robbo: Will be better for the game. He will improve as the season moves forward.
Mayes: Ordinary. Very ordinary
Gardner: As always, tried hard and gave a good effort.
Rich: Expected much better. Seems to be lazy if not given a roast.
McStay: better in backline than forward.
Lester: Ordinary. Went missing often.

Thats it...probably very different to another bunch of posters but thats Ok as well.

seems roughly like mine

On hipwood, he dropped a lot of marks that were sodas after he did the good work. He did this all last year as well imo. Needs to put on weight to impose himself for those contested marks, but still he has a huge height advantage over players at times. In the middle he barely did anything or even looked like trying to impose himself imo

Keays I agree at first look he had a shocker... but thinking harder I think he did a lot of things right that most people wouldn't notice. like I said, his skill, composure needs work... think he needs time in a back/wing role to get some cheaper possies. Once he gets more confidence in possession I think he will improve at a fast rate. His workrate from contest to contest and midfield pressure is great atm. he just plays so tense. needs to relax

Matho, yeah I might be wrong on his disposal. I just recall him being clean with his marking and other aspects that I didn't usually associate with him. One of the few that actually looked like competiting inside

Bell, if people were just looking at times he touched it then yeah I can see why they may have him in there top 5. But he was the inside mid and stef was trying to get him in the game (likely gameplan) as much as possible. Had a real lets see what bell can do in the middle feel about it. All he did was bomb it long. We are talking about a player turning 27yrs old here. I cant see him getting better then that turnover dumb footy he played. Disposal eff of just 64% actually surprised me...thought it would be lower

Bundy: quite good in the 1st. horrible the rest. needs zorko and beams around him to feed off from

Think the rest we were pretty close on

 

[Tassie4ever]

A terrible game, in a terrible place and with a terrible crowd [based on the fleeting TV shots].

Wouldn't it be great to clone some of Sydney's professionalism, structure, and ever-present endeavour. Whoever they pluck out of wherever seem to have the same attributes of hard at it, run-off, and just sheer hard work.

 

[Balony_pony16]

It was the suggestion that his excellent season last year was a myth based on Dreamteam points that made me fall of my chair.

haha, good one hey. I did get the feeling people over played his season last year (which I actually rated high myself). You often heard about how many stats he got ect... I always thought he would be nice to see him find more of the ball in the open play. yesterday I was excited when the coaches moved him higher up the ground at times... he just had a shocker. But definitely needs to do more as he develops other then the guys who kicks out. early days, but a reality check for him and some perhaps... lots of his game needs improving. which is understandable

 

[Balony_pony16]

I think Fagan should have had zorko and hodge on bench standby in hindsight. Even a quarter from hodge directly play when things went to crap would have been nice.

 

[briztoon]

It was the suggestion that his excellent season last year was a myth based on Dreamteam points that made me fall of my chair.

Pretty sure you’re trolling. Apart from the last two games of the year, Cameron was pretty crap most of the year.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Pretty sure you’re trolling. Apart from the last two games of the year, Cameron was pretty crap most of the year.

I’m talking about Witherden which was absolutely apparent by the bit I quoted. So yeah, pretty sure I’m not trolling, so kiss my arse.

 

[DashinD]

About the same level of reading comprehension as my lovely wife who was trying to tell me Bill Shorten was banging his staffers this week.

 

[jackess]

About the same level of reading comprehension as my lovely wife who was trying to tell me Bill Shorten was banging his staffers this week.

Are you married to Michaelia Cash?

 

[Hollow Knight]

About the same level of reading comprehension as my lovely wife who was trying to tell me Bill Shorten was banging his staffers this week.

Hopefully Briztoon will “withdraw” his comment from BigFooty Hansard.

 

[DashinD]

Are you married to Michaelia Cash?

Haha thankfully not.. Cash was referring to general rumours about the staffers, meanwhile Mrs DD skim-read and assumed that the rumour involved Bill and the staffers