JLT2 vs Saints

BRWB

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Wonder what everyone thought about the ruck set up. Who looked better- Trengove or English? I wouldn't mind having Trengoves height in defence tbh.

Dunno if parties are up for multiple roles but wonder if we could run with two set ups:

1: English ruck, Trengove back, Naughton fwd

2: Trengove ruck, English fwd, Naughton back
 

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Bont2Boyd

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Wonder what everyone thought about the ruck set up. Who looked better- Trengove or English? I wouldn't mind having Trengoves height in defence tbh.
Engligh looked better in the ruck, he connected better with our mids than Trengove who if he got hands on it just put it to neutral space a bit.

Our defence was very slow without adding Trengove to the mix.
 

Dogs Rule

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Was a shocking display---was at the game and the much less experienced Saints outplayed us from opening bounce. Besides a lack of key def/off players, I honestly believe that Bevo is not adapting his game style/strategy that we used so well in 15/16. We still insist on handballing or short 15-20mtrs kicks to rebound out of defensive 50. It is such a risky strategy cos just one poor disposal in the link results in a turnover and shot on goal for other team. We must be the only team who has more handballs vs kicks a game (today was 189-185, Saints 231-152). Playing more direct through the corridor and putting opposing defenders under pressure is better than a chain of four-six hospital type handballs to get it inside 50, cos all it takes is just one errant disposal and we get caught out on the turnover. His obsession with playing defenders in front of their opponent costs us badly as soon as our defender ball watches, his direct opponent then uses this to change direction and all of a sudden he has 20mtrs on our defender. This is why we concede so many marks inside 50 and all over the ground---the Saints took 111 marks and we had 48. Unless he gets with the times and plays a more direct approach with our ball movement then we will finish bottom 2 and I'm not kidding.

Also, I have feeling he is losing the players. They played today as if they could not care less.
Treating JLT with the disrespect it deserves. It's crap.
 

yebiga

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Not concerned about winning or losing these games preseason games. They are after all a warm up.

Very concerned, however, at how lacklustre we appear to be. there is just not enough spirit or enthusiasm coming from the players.

Today, our top players in that engine room: Bont, Hunter, McCrae, Liber & McLean - were simply not prepared to be consistently physical and permitted a young enthusiastic saint mid-field to beat them and on occasion bully them. Now, unless these players were told to back off a little or, by happenstance, they all were flat on the same day - we are in a bit of trouble. The saints are hardly one of the elite midfields in the AFL, whilst we would expect our midfield to be where we are strongest. Does not augur well, unless!

I see players still being mismanaged: Giving Hayes a go last week was fine, assuming he has had a great preseason on the track, but on what he showed last week he had to be dropped - he is not ready. The same goes for Richards, he is struggling to adjust to not playing down back and he is still a baby. He needs to play 4-6 games in the VFL in whatever position we see him being most valuable to the senior team.

Suckling is completely at a loss playing forward, if there is a role for him in the side it is down back or no further than the wing. He displays as much instinct for the forward line as Dale Morris.

Lloyd looks a good pick-up. Smith needs good games in the VFL.

The move of Naughton to FF is considered to have been a success because he kicked 3 goals - as much as anyone on the ground. The question, however, is how many goals may he have prevented the Saints scoring had he played in his usual key defensive post. There were 7 goals kicked between Members, Bruce and McCartin's half game. These are the three guys Naughton would have been contesting.

Personally, I'm of the opinion, had Naughton played in his Key Defensive post, 3 of those 7 goals would not have been scored by the saints and with Naughton's penchant for intercepting opposition balls into their forward 50, I reckon Naughton playing back easily creates at leas another goal for us.

Of course, there is no definitive way to adjudicate these kind or arguments.
 

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Went to watch the game. Liked the stadium. what did i take from it? well first of all, it was a vanilla practice game where the players (both teams) were not prepared to risk any injuries. it was played at 50-60% percent intensity. at half time i saw bevo and one of his assistants laughing and joking with people in the stand and players. so there. doubt Bevo (or any other coach) would play his aces on JLT games to please a bunch of grumpy posters on big footy (me included). smith is very young and still off the rhythm of an afl game due to his age/experience.

if we are to judge how we finish by JLT results, then hawthorn, freemantle, essendon, north and melbourne should finish the season in a worse position than ours. following that line of thinking then brisbane are certainties to win the flag. coaches do not show their aces in preseasons. i will wait until the fourth to sixth round to judge how good or bad we are. the data is not good enough to make any kinds of decision as to how good, mediocre or bad we are. long season for every afl club and we are not going to be bottom 6, let alone bottom 2. btw on the hawthorn results if we follow the logic of some of the melts, then alistair clarkson is a second rate coach. bevo emulates clarkson imo.

boys, please control the negativity, take a bex and sleep tight. we are much better than what we saw in the last two weeks. finally, we do not know what tactics or setups have been practiced in closed doors and that is what will be shown in round one. this is a good side. and please back off smith, he is only a kid who will be a gun. go dogs!!!
 

Norm De Guerre

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We played some incredibly dumb football today in what at times were pretty tricky conditions with a wind that switched positions after half time and much of the fault for it must be laid at the feet of Luke Beveridge.

Today we obviously went in with a plan of running and gunning in numbers and using the ball by hand right through the middle of the ground. The problem as I saw it was that we ran in numbers ok, but we did it as a pack of congealed snakes and just did not spread or heaven forbid run forward of the ball thus giving the ball carrier multiple offensive options. Time after time today we would handball to a player close by, repeat the process and run inevitably into a wall of opposition players as they ramped up he pressure until we inevitably turned it over. Most would laud our mid-field as our greatest asset, as it stands right now I see it as a liability that is going to absolutely put our forward and defensive players to the sword with their stopping mid run, turning sideways, general faffing about, and their inability to swiftly and effectively carry the ball forward.

Anyways.. A couple of my snaps and a few brief thoughts (such as they are) form todays day of mucho disappointment.

Im happy enough to eat all of the shit coming my way (mmmm shit!) and say that Lloyd is a certainty for round one and beyond. Ive always seen him as an analog for Dickson and to an extent that is true. However he's a little more slippery and versatile than Tory who assuming he is fit I would still line up next to Lloyd come Round 1. regardless of whatever shenanigans the M.C are playing with the forward line. Find a spot for him and Greene you ****sticks!

IMG_7160.jpg


English is still getting manhandled a little too easily in the ruck contests, especially at boundary throw ins. I though that he worked his way into the game pretty well in the end. We looked a considerably better side when he was out there.

IMG_7113.jpg


Next frame indicates that the ball bobbled out of his hands. Nice pict but...
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Williams seemed to get a bit of it out there, but to my mind was one of the culprits when it came to the above comments about our inability to move the ball with any cohesion whatsoever.

IMG_6623.jpg


The other Bailey clearly had a tough time of it today and was a little better for it once moved to space of the wing and away from the coalface in the final quarter. Making calls about his entire career after a couple of fluffed kicks early is the very definition of poor form that this board revels in during match day threads and one that will not be forgotten in a hurry.

IMG_7176.jpg


The barometer. Not at his dominant best, but showing signs that he is match fit and ready to assume his position as one of the best players in our side.

IMG_7183.jpg


Regardless of the above, Im going to remain upbeat about our prospects until after I see how we go when the stakes are for real in a few weeks.
 
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Virgin Dog

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We played some incredibly dumb football today in what at times were pretty tricky conditions with a wind that switched positions after half time and much of the fault for it must be laid at the feet of Luke Beveridge.

Today we obviously went in with a plan of running and gunning in numbers and using the ball by hand right through the middle of the ground. The problem as I saw it was that we ran in numbers ok, but we did it as a pack of congealed snakes and just did not spread or heaven forbid run forward of the ball thus giving the ball carrier multiple offensive options. Time after time today we would handball to a player close by, repeat the process and run inevitably run into a wall of opposition players as they ramped up he pressure until we inevitably turned it over. Most would laud our mid-field as our greatest asset, as it stands right now I see it as a liability that is going to absolutely put our forward and defensive players to the sword with their stopping mid run, turning sideways, general faffing about, and their inability to swiftly and effectively carry the ball forward.

Anyways.. A couple of my snaps and a few brief thoughts (such as they are) form todays day of mucho disappointment.

Im happy enough to eat all of the shit coming my way (mmmm shit!) and say that Lloyd is a certainty for round one and beyond. Ive always seen him as an analog for Dickson and to an extent that is true. However he's a little more slippery and versatile than Tory who assuming he is fit I would still line up next to Lloyd come Round 1. regardless of whatever shenanigans the M.C are playing with the forward line. Find a spot for him and Greene you ****sticks!

View attachment 632826

English is still getting manhandled a little too easily in the ruck contests, especially at boundary throw ins. I though that he worked his way into the game pretty well in the end. We looked a considerably better side when he was out there.

View attachment 632827

Next frame indicates that the ball bobbled out of his hands. Nice pict but...
View attachment 632833

Williams seemed to get a bit of it out there, but to my mind was one of the culprits when it came to the above comments about our inability to move the ball with any cohesion whatsoever.

View attachment 632828

The other Bailey clearly had a tough time of it today and was a little better for it once moved to space of the wing and away from the coalface in the final quarter. Making calls about his entire career after a couple of fluffed kicks early is the very definition of poor form that this board revels in during match day threads and one that will not be forgotten in a hurry.

View attachment 632835

The barometer. Not at his dominant best, but showing signs that he is match fit and ready to assume his position as one of the best players in our side.

View attachment 632836

Im going to remain upbeat about our prospects until after I see how we go when the stakes are for real in a few weeks.
Lloyd makes our forward line look 10x better. I'm certain he's in our round 1 side
 

TedDougChris

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I am wondering if we were testing out a few in our F50 - just to see how they went. Perhaps Dickson and others (not entirely sure who) are considered likely starters - so we tried a few (Hayes for example) at the higher level to see how they coped and what they need to work on ?

Perhaps I'm just being overly optimistic here.....
 

Anja_Nees

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Honestly I never get too concerned about preseason form.

We were good last year against the Hawks but got flogged round one while they were top four. In ‘06 we lost three of four, played the same four teams again in the first five rounds and the resisters were exactly reversed.

Good to see Libba back at it, Lloyd looks good and Schache continues to show signs.

I won’t be worried unless the wheels and spinning off round four.
 

dogwatch

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I am wondering if we were testing out a few in our F50 - just to see how they went. Perhaps Dickson and others (not entirely sure who) are considered likely starters - so we tried a few (Hayes for example) at the higher level to see how they coped and what they need to work on ?

Perhaps I'm just being overly optimistic here.....
Agree with this. I've already said that I expect two of Dickson, Cavarra and Greene will be in the Round 1 side. Probably not all three of them though. Lloyd has now staked his claim and I think he's a certain starter.

We'll see soon enough.
 
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He was only in that position because he was covering for someone else who didn't have the legs to get within 30 m of the goalsquare when they had a fast push forward. I saw him attempt to cover for Morris several times. Our back 6 was like treacle out there today.

At every centre bounce he was the closest defender to the middle.
 

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This is what I have been saying our defenders play 15 metres in front of their direct opponent----which is what Bevo wants---don't blame Caleb, if Cordy was allowed to play shoulder to shoulder with Membrey, like Rance, Hurley etc do---I can guarantee you he would not have had so many easy marks and goals.
 
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Honestly I never get too concerned about preseason form.

We were good last year against the Hawks but got flogged round one while they were top four. In ‘06 we lost three of four, played the same four teams again in the first five rounds and the resisters were exactly reversed.

Good to see Libba back at it, Lloyd looks good and Schache continues to show signs.

I won’t be worried unless the wheels and spinning off round four.
 
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you should be----losing two Gold coast and young Saints team is bad enough---then thrown in the constant issue of not kicking more than 90+ points a game, (we were scoreless at the 22min mark of first term on a perfect day conditions for scoring) and it came from a free to Libba plus 50 mt penalty.

We cant score and our defenders are like headless chooks not knowing who to man up. If we played WCE at Optus we would have been smashed by 20 goals. Our only strengths are our mids and opposition coaches clearly instruct their players to hammer McCrae/Bont at every chance---giving up a free is nothing to them and they (all teams will do it all year).
 

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At the footy yesterday, a bloke in his mid 70s sitting directly behind me...

First quarter:

He asked me, "Who's number 33 who laid that tackle?"
I replied, "Aaron Naughton."
He replied, "What did you get him from?"
I replied, "He was our first pick in the draft a couple of years ago. He was fourth in the Best and Fairest last year. Usually plays key defender."

Second quarter:
He asked, "Who's that number 33? He has strong hands."
I replied, "Aaron Naughton."
He asked, "Is he a new player?"
I replied, "Second year on the list."

Third quarter:
He asked, "Who just kicked that goal?"
I replied, "Naughton."
He replied, "Naughton! Where'd you get him from?"
I replied, "He's a beauty, isn't he?"
He replied, "And now he's in the ruck. Number 44."
 

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Not enough penetration on his kicking to break the lines to put opposition sides to the sword
It's a problem that needs to be looked at IMO. He's too good to not play but I'm not sure the wing is suited to him especially if we have a guy like Macrae lining up on the other wing. I feel like Macrae does his best work inside the centre bounces.

We need more attacking players lining up on either side of the ground to get the ball inside 50 quickly into dangerous spots.
 
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Poor turnovers, lack of structure same issues as last season. I can see why there is a lot of negativity.

When we did use handball for spread hit up leading forwards and pressured in the forward line we looked good.

Consistency of effort is critical .

With what has been presented it looks like another wasted year. Very little to be ensused about during the JLT.

Round 1 last year set up the year we had. Pretty sure this will be the case again so will wait and see before throwing in the year already
In a nutshell you've hit the hammer-----exact same game plan which in 2015/16 worked a treat. Now the game has changed dramatically from the frenetic short quick handballs rebounding out of def 50. But Bevo, we all love him for bringing us a second flag, but this year must be a double figure amount in the Win column...if not then a review, alas Richmond 2016, Collingwood 2017, and Saints last year must be done at seasons end.

What disappoints me, and what gave me high hopes for a top 8 finish was the last four games of 2018--we went 3-1 (should have beaten Richmond), but also the way we attacked the ball and played with more direct kicking as opposed to overuse of handballing, which if you stuff up costs you big time.

Think about how many goals we have conceded from turnovers that ended up with a player taking the mark inside 30 and kicking the easiest of goals. We kick 10 a game for the past 40 odd games on avg (17th or 18th overall). and we seem like we have to work so hard to a goal---we never get easy goals, with a forward loose/unmarked close to goal.
 

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Take aways

Naughton is an absolute jet that wile should be signing up for massive coin NOW.

Bont has to be a concern to stay imo. If things don’t improve this year I think he is 50/50 to stay.

Libba is just a consistent warrior

Wallis leaving wouldn’t have been a big loss

Richards and McLean both looked a little lost.

Bailey Smith isn’t ready

Bailey Williams isn’t very good

Caleb Daniel will get crucified as a backmen in real games.

We have no ruck division

Lloyd is our best forward

Schache will not make it as a number one KPF. He needs help.

Dunkley is slower than me and I only have one knee

We are the worst kicking team in the league

Bevs coaching has to be under question if this is a consistent thread of play this year.

We will have a very good draft pick at years end.

Dog fans don’t like the truth


MD have loved your work for a long time but I am going to have to put you om the ignore list now Your just rambling and rambling now mate Anyway that is my opinion and it means Jack so let it be
 

fred cook

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It's a problem that needs to be looked at IMO. He's too good to not play but I'm not sure the wing is suited to him especially if we have a guy like Macrae lining up on the other wing. I feel like Macrae does his best work inside the centre bounces.

We need more attacking players lining up on either side of the ground to get the ball inside 50 quickly into dangerous spots.

Its only a JLT but my concern for a few years has been our speed and pace looking at the below best for this game no one has pace
BEST
Western Bulldogs: Hunter, Macrae, Dunkley, Lloyd, Naughton, Wallis
 
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At the footy yesterday, a bloke in his mid 70s sitting directly behind me...

First quarter:

He asked me, "Who's number 33 who laid that tackle?"
I replied, "Aaron Naughton."
He replied, "What did you get him from?"
I replied, "He was our first pick in the draft a couple of years ago. He was fourth in the Best and Fairest last year. Usually plays key defender."

Second quarter:
He asked, "Who's that number 33? He has strong hands."
I replied, "Aaron Naughton."
He asked, "Is he a new player?"
I replied, "Second year on the list."

Third quarter:
He asked, "Who just kicked that goal?"
I replied, "Naughton."
He replied, "Naughton! Where'd you get him from?"
I replied, "He's a beauty, isn't he?"
He replied, "And now he's in the ruck. Number 44."
With all due credit to Naughton who is a player can play both ends and be elite in a couple of years---the fact he came 4th in the B&F is sign of far we have fallen in two years. Let's pray that WA clubs dnt try to lure him back----imagine WCE with Naughton and McGovern down back.
 

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The biggest disappointment about the JLT games is that we look totally devoid of a plan. Players are chopped and changed in an erratic fashion. Daniel down back manning up the biggest blokes on the pitch. Our gun defender is sacrificed to patch a hole up forward. Everyone has a go in the ruck. We even try nobody in the ruck.

Bevo is shuffling his pack furiously. For such a seemingly methodical bloke, it looks alarmingly like a scattergun approach to the game. Nobody knows what they’re doing or who is around them. Bollocks to flexibly and versatility, how about we get some continuity and consistency.
but isnt that what practice games are for? Should we play Hayes and Durea in the real stuff? lets find out... apparently not!

how does naughton go up forward in a pinch? pretty good!

job done, thanks JLT
 
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Maybe, but his insane work rate is valuable. How many times are we going forward and the ball carriers options are hunter and none?
True---we lack that leg speed to spread, yes hunter is not fast but he reads the play better than anyone else in our side---thats why he often gets the ball in space. If he had JJ's jets and could kick 50+ he would be top 10 mids in the comp.
 

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Exactly. Then you get another defender trying to help Daniel out and we are basically a man down.

Daniel is very good ball in hand and he’s one of the few showing a bit of composure back there. However the gains are quite simply not worth the guaranteed 3+ goals per game it is going to cost us.

Get him further forward where his strengths are still appreciated and his weaknesses aren’t going to cost goals.

But what do I know.
Such an interesting problem. A player with his strengths should be a link up player like Hunter but I think he is just so slow over distance which is exposed in the open spaces. I think he is just too slow to offer an option when we have it AND defend his area when we dont. You cant just opt midfielders out of two way running.

Might turn out that he isnt suited to AFL after all, not directly due to height, but ability to cover ground
 
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