JLT2 vs Saints

The Inbetweener

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Do we try Trengove back english ruck and bite the bullet and throw Naughty forward? That way we have two rucks in the team without touching Naughty/Schache or the smalls which is a bonus.
I’d rather expose Lewis Young. Trengove too slow for the backline IMO.
Really needed to recruit another key defender with Adams departure
 

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Next Waiting

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One thing is certain. Bevo is going to get caned either way if we continue losing. That's probably fair enough, mind you, especially if you're the obdurate "my way or the highway" sort of coach that Bev is.

Some blame him for sticking with a game plan that's no longer relevant and applicable. Others blame him for changing the game plan straight after winning a flag.

So which one is it?
Are we able to say this definitively or has he been unfairly labelled as such?
 
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I caved this morning and put him on ignore. His draining of everyone’s life is now horrendously unbearable.
It’s a puzzle how he claims to be a bulldog fan yet shits on the whole club and playing list every chance he gets.
I truly pity his family and work colleagues.

Edit: I’ve also noticed that when we’re winning and playing well he’s nowhere to be seen, yet when we’re losing he’s flat out on here spewing his hatred of the club all over BF.
I’m certain he’s not even a bulldog supporter.
Just ignore him. I did a few months ago and Bigfooty’s became bearable again... even enjoyable. It is weird though still seeing people’s replies to him without seeing his posts for context.
Fact: he offers nothing at all.
Remedy: ignore him immediately.
 

dogwatch

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Are we able to say this definitively or has he been unfairly labelled as such?
Good question. He’s certainly been painted that way on anecdotal evidence. Being stubborn and single minded can of course be a desirable trait in many situations.

He doesn’t reveal much when interviewed and there’s not much evidence that he has lost the support of players or the administration (despite a few speculative comments I’ve seen on BF).

My point is not so much whether it’s a good or a bad thing but that if you insist on everything being done your way then you take most of the credit if it goes well and nearly all the blame if it goes badly.

Bevo got a heap of credit in 2016. He’ll be wanting it to go well this year after a couple of seasons in the wilderness.
 

Dog 36

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Definitely the latter. Bev has high expectations for certain things, meet them and you're all good. Don't, then don't bother.
Obviously then Bev's expectations with regards to foot skills (disposal by foot) must be pretty low because going by what you say there would be no one left bar one or two players.

Our foot skills are shyte and this is our biggest issue, no wonder why we handball so much because putting it simply we can't kick.
 
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Next Waiting

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My point is not so much whether it’s a good or a bad thing but that if you insist on everything being done your way then you take most of the credit if it goes well and nearly all the blame if it goes badly.

Bevo got a heap of credit in 2016. He’ll be wanting it to go well this year after a couple of seasons in the wilderness.
I just havent seen enough evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, to be able to accept as a given that this is how he operates.
He may be very consultative and open to challenge but rightly has the final say.
Youd have to be on the inside to know.
 

Mattdougie

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I just havent seen enough evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, to be able to accept as a given that this is how he operates.
He may be very consultative and open to challenge but rightly has the final say.
Youd have to be on the inside to know.
There is a fair amount of evidence to say that once he makes a decision right or wrong that’s it.

Starting with Jake who by most accounts was more than willing to do anything to stay at the club and Bev wouldn’t even sit down with him once the call was made.

It’s seems to be a growing whisper that he has a completely different man management style to 2015-16 as e thought the players acting up out of footy were taking advantage of his good nature. Many think he has gone to far and alienated some players and that is part of the current discord.

Who knows but it does make some sense
 

Mattdougie

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Just ignore him. I did a few months ago and Bigfooty’s became bearable again... even enjoyable. It is weird though still seeing people’s replies to him without seeing his posts for context.
Fact: he offers nothing at all.
Remedy: ignore him immediately.
Yet you continue to discuss me lol

You blokes can’t even see it
 
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No it’s not

Its the same 6 odd people that target me every day and the mods know it which is why I haven’t been banned. I could name them but won’t

Perhaps have a chat to them and ask them to stop constantly coming at me even when on ignore.

There are literally people I have on ignore that carry out convos about me that I’m not even involved in.

Two sides to the fence mate
1552296685581.png
 

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Just ignore him. I did a few months ago and Bigfooty’s became bearable again... even enjoyable. It is weird though still seeing people’s replies to him without seeing his posts for context.
Fact: he offers nothing at all.
Remedy: ignore him immediately.
Yeah, agree. I should’ve pushed the detonator earlier
 
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Definitely the latter. Bev has high expectations for certain things, meet them and you're all good. Don't, then don't bother.
Which is how it should be at the highest level of professional sports.
It’s strange it doesn’t sit well with some on here. If you have anyone in a sporting organisation not buying in and pulling in a different direction it’ll turn out terribly and they should be straightened out or shipped off. Pretty simple.
 

Mattdougie

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For group harmony I won’t post on this thread again but perhaps posters shouldn’t abuse me and then sook it up when I reply. I’m the only person in here not permitted to defend themselves by some.

And those that are actully ignoring me DONT TALK ABOUT ME

It defeats the purpose so have a great evening ladies
 

gangsta deluxe

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Bevo was just laying out the smoke screens. We are going to magically change our kick to handball ratio in Round 1 and all our forwards are going to have a picnic.
He’s not Machiavelli.

One thing is certain. Bevo is going to get caned either way if we continue losing. That's probably fair enough, mind you, especially if you're the obdurate "my way or the highway" sort of coach that Bev is.

Some blame him for sticking with a game plan that's no longer relevant and applicable. Others blame him for changing the game plan straight after winning a flag.

So which one is it?
It’s kind of both actually, he changed it in 2017 and hasn’t since then.

I feel honestly that 2016 had a hybrid version of the men of mayhem and the current style with elements of both. I think squad issues make that no longer possible, but definitely men of mayhem is. Will that support the ongoing development of the group though?
 

Norm De Guerre

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There is a fair amount of evidence to say that once he makes a decision right or wrong that’s it.

Starting with Jake who by most accounts was more than willing to do anything to stay at the club and Bev wouldn’t even sit down with him once the call was made.

It’s seems to be a growing whisper that he has a completely different man management style to 2015-16 as e thought the players acting up out of footy were taking advantage of his good nature. Many think he has gone to far and alienated some players and that is part of the current discord.

Who knows but it does make some sense
Please. Not this canard again. Anybody with even the most tangental of contacts within the club or indeed with posters of good repute here would understand that the Stringer situation was completely untenable. Good for him that from the outside he seems to have somewhat turned his life around at another club, but there was just no way short of a senior player (who Beveridge quite rightly backed) clean out that it could've happened at ours.
 

DognBones

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I seem to recall that some of the comments now emerging about Beveridge's supposed lack of consulting and obstinance were directed similarly at Nathan Buckley not too long ago. Was Buckley really like this? Did he change his approach? Were the perceptions incorrect and other dynamics were at play?
If I'm a member of the jury to reach a decision regarding Beveridge, I'll reserve my verdict until further evidence.
 

yebiga

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It strikes me that what is missing is that the team displays no joy
During 2015/16 there was a spirit
Maybe it’s winning makes it look like it’s there or makes it actually happen
But we appear to me too professional and lacking any panache
the list management post 2016 seems to have been intent on eradicating spirited players too.
 

Mofra

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Please. Not this canard again. Anybody with even the most tangental of contacts within the club or indeed with posters of good repute here would understand that the Stringer situation was completely untenable. Good for him that from the outside he seems to have somewhat turned his life around at another club, but there was just no way short of a senior player (who Beveridge quite rightly backed) clean out that it could've happened at ours.
Stringer and Libba were given very similar end of season assessments.
Libba takes it on board and comes back from his holiday two weeks early to train., Stringer sooks, gets called out by his own teammates on Instagram, and leaves.
 

Next Waiting

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It strikes me that what is missing is that the team displays no joy
During 2015/16 there was a spirit
Maybe it’s winning makes it look like it’s there or makes it actually happen
But we appear to me too professional and lacking any panache
the list management post 2016 seems to have been intent on eradicating spirited players too.
Was watching Offsiders a few weeks back and one of the panelists (woman - rugers journo from Sydney) was talking about the change of coach for the Aussie women's soccer team. Blah blah blah as long as the new coach (man) understands and that men have to win to feel good, women have to feel good to win.
Hadn't heard it put like that before.
Anyways, our team are blokes, they aren't winning enough recently so no ones on cloud nine.
 

Whoyagot

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Bit of a player by player review having just watched the replay + Bevo’s post match.

1 - Suckling: Didn’t really contribute much at all playing higher up the ground. Bev said he was happy with his defensive work on Geary and Robertson after the game as if Sucklings most important attributes are best utilised as a defensive Half Forward. Needs to half back or not at all, hopefully bevo is taking the piss and suckers in turn is lining up for kick ins against the swans as he would be one of the best at them in the Comp with the new rule changes. Will play round 1 but only because bevo likes him.

3 - Wallis: liked his work in the midfield compared to some of his previous showings there but he’s just too important a forward to leave out of the 50. McLean should have taken those midfield minutes more imo. Great to see him in such promising form though, really picked up where he left off from last year which can’t be said for some. Will play round 1.

4 - Bont: looks great! Looks a lot quicker and agile, really building into some strong form again and seems to have gotten over his hip. Would really like to see him stay with those many minutes mid, every time he touches the ball he makes something happen so we need to get him the ball as much as possible. Will play round 1

5 - Dunkley: thought he played a lot better then last JLT with more time in the mid. Although his kicking is still trash and he hasn’t really shown any improvement which is disappointing, he looked back in the similar form he was in come the end of last year which was great to see. Was really worried he was stuck back in the forward line last week for way to long. Will play round 1

6 - Smith: poor kicking but showed he could find the ball and looked quite strong in the contest for the time he was playing. Really keen to see how he improves over the course of the season. Bevo (as well as Jj on the boundary) said he was a strong chance to play round 1 so I’ve got him in the team!

7 - Hunter: this guy’s kicking is sooooo frustrating. Displays zero confidence in being able to move the ball forward and when he does really struggles to hit an easy target. I love how he covers the ground and finds the ball but it’s really sad to see that he hasn’t showed any improvement in this obvious deficiency. Will still play round 1.

8 - Trengrove: really battled in the ruck, love his follow up efforts. It’s between him and English for that spot I reckon. Honestly no idea who gets it at this stage which is a massive problem with the main season being 2 weeks away. I think he just pips English for his experience and tank. Plays round 1.

9 - Crozier: not a super flashy game but he looks one of our most consistent players right now. He’s really made that half back role his own, not much else to say. Will play round 1.

10 - Wood: Did a few nice things, looks to be growing more and more confident with his body. He’s such a rubbish kick though... not exactly the space you want to be in as captain of a club. Hopefully he can continue to improve over the course of the season. Will play round 1.

11 - Macrae: another great game, mr consistent. Has really improved his kicking over the last few years, wish players like hunter and Dunkley would take note. Will play round 1.

12 - Cordy: love this guy but his start to the year has been very average. Looked very fumbly and looks like his dear brother that he’s reached his physical limit in terms of his bodies development. Really worry about him playing on the big boys, especially when he was as fumbly as he was yesterday. Still, we don’t have too much else in the key back department. Plays round 1.

13 - Schache: had 5 shots at goal for 2.2. Not the worst return for his first game back. Hasn’t taken that quantum leap some of us were hoping and still needs to improve his contested marking but looks to be on a similar trajectory to last year which is promising. Will play round 1.

15 - Duryea: Looks solid and tough down back but was a bit dodgy with some of his kicking. I think with Naughton looking to start forward as I’ll discuss later, he’ll start round 1.

16 - McLean: quiet day playing a more forward role, can’t remember seeing him around the ball much at all. I actually don’t mind him playing more forward next season. He’s one of our more creative players and our midfield is so stacked right now so he could add a bit of X factor in that front half. I’d still like to see him taking more centre bounces though, I mentioned earlier that Wallis played more mid time this game, is like to see McLean used in his place and Wallis stay closer to goal. Quiet game playing in a tough position but has a lot of credits, will play round 1.

20 - Richards: very quiet day. Has a lot of energy when he’s near the ball but just couldn’t find any ball in open space where he does his best work. Bevi mentioned in the press conference one wing got absolutely smashed this game and Richards has to take some responsibility for that. 6 disposals starting on the wing just isn’t good enough and as much as this kid is going to be a jet long term, he needs some time in the twos adjusting to his new role. Won’t play round 1.

21 - Libba: not as strong a showing as his first JLT where he was in everything but another good hitout. He’s looking cherry ripe to explode in round 1. Love the cleanness he brings to the contest. Will play round 1.

22 - Lloyd: showed his worth very clearly today. Those two goals in a two minutes to change the moment is an attribute we’ve been crying out for. Seems very similar to Dickson but more explosive and a better field kick. Plays round 1.

26 - Gowers: looks low on form and confidence. Stringer esque in his lack of contest on the footy and to look for the easy one out the back. Looked a little bit better when he moved through the middle in the third quarter. Hopefully if we sure up our forward structure he becomes less of a dependant forward target and can be freed up to work up and down the ground. After these performances though his round 1 spot is in jeopardy. Just squeezes in though. Plays round 1.

32 - Hayes: Showed all the skills of a pick in the 70s. Seems like depth and not much more, good to be exposed to that level and I think there’s a bit to work with but he’s not ready imo. Would be very surprised to see him play round 1 but bevo has made srupider decisions. Won’t play round 1.

33 - Naughton: Great effort up forward, his contest in the air was great but I also thought his urgency at ground level was awesome too. He’s fast becoming one of our best players. HOWEVER: he was playing a st Kilda forward line missing their two best KPDs. I’m still tossing up whether he should start back or forward and I think he’ll be a lot more dependable as a back man. Being a forward is tough and as much as we need him there, we also look really shaky down back when he’s missing. Bevo however said he would start forward against the swans so I guess he’s starting forward. Plays round 1 (as a forward)

34 - Williams: Looked a bit all at sea with some of his disposal which is a shame because I’m a big fan. Really interesting that he’s been training with the mids all preseason yet starts at half back in both JLT games. I’d essentially like to see he and suckling swap positions for round 1, not sure he’ll even be selected though. Just makes round 1.

35 - Daniel: not as outstanding as his first game but I think he’ll be persisted with down back. A lot of people are commenting that he was getting caught on the big blokes but that was lately because he was the only one with the ability to work back and pick them up, not the best sign for our defensive unit and another’s. Sign that it’d be nice to have Naughton back there. Will play round 1.

38 - Morris: did some good things but also looked a bit slow. Still think he adds a lot to the backline with his voice and experience but I’m concerned with Naughton playing forward he’s going to have to take some of the big boys which is a really tough ask for someone his age. Will play round 1.

40 - Young: couple of strong efforts, good for the run. Just depth right now though. Misses round 1.

44 - English: as I was talking about with Trengrove it’s really line ball for who’ll take that ruck spot. My call is Trengrove but would t be surprised to see him selected. Just misses round 1.

Best 22 post analysis:

Duryea Morris Wood
Crozier Cordy Daniel
Hunter Macrae Dickson*
McLean Schache Wallis
Lloyd Naughton Gowers
Trengrove Bont Libba

I/C: Dunkley, Smith, Williams, Suckling

* I reckon Dickson deserves a crack based on his VFL form, from all accounts he’s been playing that attacking wing role and should be rewarded when you consider the poor performances in that role from Richards and Hayes. We simply need more players with goal sense and Dickson provides that.

What u think?
 
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Yojimbo

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Kick to Handball, differential expressed in ladder format. (Love The Ladder)

Rank 1: Hawthorn (+196)
Rank 2: Carlton (+169)
Rank 3: West Coast (+164)
Rank 4: GWS (+164)
Rank 5: St Kilda (+155)
Rank 6: Port Adelaide (+134)
Rank 7: Richmond (+133)
Rank 8: Adelaide (+129)

Rank 9: Sydney (+125)
Rank 10: Gold Coast (+122)
Rank 11: Collingwood (+120)
Rank 12: Brisbane (+118)
Rank 13: Geelong (+103)
Rank 14: Melbourne (+90)
Rank 15: Fremantle (+59)
Rank 16: Essendon (+44)
Rank 17: North Melbourne (+11)
Rank 18: Western Bulldogs (- 27)

Well there it is the JLT fest put into ladder format, Hawthorn lost both games same as we did so
I guess some people will say it does not matter, but even though the quality is lower they still
had a forty point lead at half time versus Richmond in JLT2 so their method is still dangerous.
One thing that is clear is that the easy beats from last year have gained ground and don't just
present easy volume wins as they have in the past.
 
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