JLT2 vs Saints

fred cook

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Best 22 post analysis:

Duryea Morris Wood
Crozier Cordy Daniel
Hunter Macrae Dickson*
McLean Schache Wallis
Lloyd Naughton Gowers
Trengrove Bont Libba

I/C: Dunkley, Smith, Williams, Suckling

* I reckon Dickson deserves a crack based on his VFL form, from all accounts he’s been playing that attacking wing role and should be rewarded when you consider the poor performances in that role from Richards and Hayes. We simply need more players with goal sense and Dickson provides that.

What u think?
Duryea Morris Wood
Crozier Cordy Daniel
Hunter Macrae Suckling *
McLean Schache Wallis
Lloyd Naughton Dickson
English
Bont Libba

I/C: Dunkley, Smith, Williams, Trengrove
 

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Next Waiting

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Kick to Handball, differential expressed in ladder format. (Love The Ladder)

Rank 1: Hawthorn (+196)
Rank 2: Carlton (+169)
Rank 3: West Coast (+164)
Rank 4: GWS (+164)
Rank 5: St Kilda (+155)
Rank 6: Port Adelaide (+134)
Rank 7: Richmond (+133)
Rank 8: Adelaide (+129)

Rank 9: Sydney (+125)
Rank 10: Gold Coast (+122)
Rank 11: Collingwood (+120)
Rank 12: Brisbane (+118)
Rank 13: Geelong (+103)
Rank 14: Melbourne (+90)
Rank 15: Fremantle (+59)
Rank 16: Essendon (+44)
Rank 17: North Melbourne (+11)
Rank 18: Western Bulldogs (- 27)

Well there it is the JLT fest put into ladder format, Hawthorn lost both games same as we did so
I guess some people will say it does not matter, but even though the quality is lower they still
had a forty point lead at half time versus Richmond in JLT2 so their method is still dangerous.
One thing that is clear is that the easy beats from last year have gained ground and don't just
present easy volume wins as they have in the past.
I believe the assertion that JLT or any other preseason competition adds clarity or makes anything of any real consequence clear, to be a fallacy.

In no small part because no one, with the possible exception of a small number of fringe players hoping to attract some attention, is playing for anything other than the opportunity to blow a candle out, cop and give a bump, all whilst trying like hell to avoid injury so they are available for selection when an actual real game that's worth something breaks out.
 

Mofra

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Best 22 post analysis:

Duryea Morris Wood
Crozier Cordy Daniel
Hunter Macrae Dickson*
McLean Schache Wallis
Lloyd Naughton Gowers
Trengrove Bont Libba

I/C: Dunkley, Smith, Williams, Suckling

* I reckon Dickson deserves a crack based on his VFL form, from all accounts he’s been playing that attacking wing role and should be rewarded when you consider the poor performances in that role from Richards and Hayes. We simply need more players with goal sense and Dickson provides that.
I like the team, I suspect we go in with one ruck (Swans are underdone in that area) and Richards still gets a shot on the wing as he was played high half forward which is no-man's land at AFL level.

I'd prefer Smith in (he's got huge upside and seemed to pick the pace of the game up more and more in JLT 2 as time wore on) but I suspect we pick Hayes which worries me.

Sadly I think English just misses out. Sam Reid seems to love playing against us so we might switch Naughton back after he starts to prove too much of an influence from about halftime.
 

Yojimbo

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I believe the assertion that JLT or any other preseason competition adds clarity or makes anything of any real consequence clear, to be a fallacy.

In no small part because no one, with the possible exception of a small number of fringe players hoping to attract some attention, is playing for anything other than the opportunity to blow a candle out, cop and give a bump, all whilst trying like hell to avoid injury so they are available for selection when an actual real game that's worth something breaks out.
While I agree with you to an extent, I think it depends on where you are as a side. This year we have 6-6-6 coming in and to be
honest with you i am not sure the coaches have got their heads around it yet. The potential gains are plain to see for sides with
genuine structure, but not so for the other teams. I would of loved to see Lewis Young play full back on the weekend if they
wanted to try Naughton forward, JLT used to have structure when it was three games as you could see some evolution. We
looked like we were on the back of a big training block to be honest, very flat.
 
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While I agree with you to an extent, I think it depends on where you are as a side. This year we have 6-6-6 coming in and to be
honest with you i am not sure the coaches have got their heads around it yet. The potential gains are plain to see for sides with
genuine structure, but not so for the other teams. I would of loved to see Lewis Young play full back on the weekend if they
wanted to try Naughton forward, JLT used to have structure when it was three games as you could see some evolution. We
looked like we were on the back of a big training block to be honest, very flat.
To get to the end of jlt and stumble across the idea of playing Naughton forward doesn’t reflect well on the coaching staff.
 
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He rotates our rucks cos we have no genuine B grade (forget about A grade). Trengove is a pinch hitter at best and being 'only' 197cm gives very little chance of winning hit outs --- so coming up against the best like Gawn at 208cm, Grundy 203cm, Jacobs 202cm etc....he cant compete. Not his fault cos I believe he has been a good pick up thus far, even Crozier has been very good after the bye las season.

We need English to at least break even which is a big ask given his lack of experience.

The two positions that we need to trade for are a key defender types like Rance, Hurley, McGovern, and genuine Ruckman even a Bellchambers would make a big difference especially with the new 6-6-6 rules and the wingman not being able to rush in to the centre square once ump bounces the ball. Clearances from centre bounces are going to be a massive this year.
 

Virgin Dog

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He rotates our rucks cos we have no genuine B grade (forget about A grade). Trengove is a pinch hitter at best and being 'only' 197cm gives very little chance of winning hit outs --- so coming up against the best like Gawn at 208cm, Grundy 203cm, Jacobs 202cm etc....he cant compete. Not his fault cos I believe he has been a good pick up thus far, even Crozier has been very good after the bye las season.

We need English to at least break even which is a big ask given his lack of experience.

The two positions that we need to trade for are a key defender types like Rance, Hurley, McGovern, and genuine Ruckman even a Bellchambers would make a big difference especially with the new 6-6-6 rules and the wingman not being able to rush in to the centre square once ump bounces the ball. Clearances from centre bounces are going to be a massive this year.
If we are going to be playing Naughton forward long term (which is fine with me) we are desperately needing a quality KPD to come in. Looking at free agency, there's Tomlinson from GWS and Astbury from Richmond which is basically it. Otherwise, we'd need to try and poach someone out of contract (but outside of free agency) like Michael Hartley from Essendon or Rory Thompson from GC.

Not exactly spoiled for choice, but after missing out on guys like Hurley, Carlisle and Lever in previous years we have to be getting desperate at this stage. At least we know we have an enormous amount of cap space to spend so contract size shouldn't be an issue
 

Mofra

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If we are going to be playing Naughton forward long term (which is fine with me) we are desperately needing a quality KPD to come in. Looking at free agency, there's Tomlinson from GWS and Astbury from Richmond which is basically it. Otherwise, we'd need to try and poach someone out of contract (but outside of free agency) like Michael Hartley from Essendon or Rory Thompson from GC.
Rory Thompson is an RFA, I think he's gettable especially coming off an ACL this year.
 

Virgin Dog

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Rory Thompson is an RFA, I think he's gettable especially coming off an ACL this year.
Oh my mistake, was going off an article on the AFL.com.au that didn't list him as a free agent - shows how reliable they are..

If he's willing to relocate I'd love for us to grab him - only concern is he's 29 next year (coincidentally it's his 28th birthday today) which means he's not exactly a long termer. Originally from Queensland though so seems like the type to be a one-club player
 
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Oh my mistake, was going off an article on the AFL.com.au that didn't list him as a free agent - shows how reliable they are..

If he's willing to relocate I'd love for us to grab him - only concern is he's 29 next year (coincidentally it's his 28th birthday today) which means he's not exactly a long termer. Originally from Queensland though so seems like the type to be a one-club player
He’s literally just done his acl. Huge risk in trading for him.
 

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Libba39

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Good observations. For some reason Williams, Dunkley and Cordy always start off the year poorly, Remember last year- r 1- everybody was ready to delist them. So not worried about those 3.

Our senior players are the worry. Wood, Morris, Trengove, Suckling.
Wood took a couple of strong (wood-like) marks on the weekend. He'll be ok.
Morris has looked good except when on a bigger defender and the ball was coming in quickly. I'll still back him though.
Trengove has had his colours lowered in both games but is ahead of English.
Suckling is the tricky one. Heard he played as a defensive forward the other day.
 

doggies ftw

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Looking back on this game I really dont think its as dire as people think, gameplan wise anyway. Yeah weve definitely gone the opposite way to pretty much every team with the handball to kick ratio but **** have you seen our footskills. Theres no way we compete with other sides with a similar method. Id rather do something completely different to the rest and something that suits our players strengths.

On quite a number of occasions we moved the ball quickly by hands and hit up leading targets in the forward 50, happened way more often than last year. There was a number of times we moved the ball quickly by hands but butchered the last kick inside 50 even when the player had found space. So i give that a tick to the gameplan but execution off.

On top of that there was a huge amount of times that we moved the ball extremely well by hands, but got sucked into one handball too many and turned it over. That will improve. The players have to learn when its necessary to just kick it. We also have to get better at getting the right players into space. All well and good to move the ball into space but we need to be getting your Williams and Sucklings on the receiving end not your Dunkleys and Wallis' which also happened a number of times (which resulted in a turnover down field or one too many handballs because they werent confident to take the kick).

Also need to learn to spread at angles better, too often wed have a heap of options running forward to keep the ball moving but theyre all clumped together and we get closed down. If they all adjusted their runs slightly all of a sudden its borderline impossible to shut them down. Again this will improve.

Its ugly at the moment but mark my words by round 5 or 6 we'll be running rings around some teams at docklands and scoring wont seem like such an issue all of a sudden.
 

Virgin Dog

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On top of that there was a huge amount of times that we moved the ball extremely well by hands, but got sucked into one handball too many and turned it over. That will improve. The players have to learn when its necessary to just kick it. We also have to get better at getting the right players into space. All well and good to move the ball into space but we need to be getting your Williams and Sucklings on the receiving end not your Dunkleys and Wallis' which also happened a number of times (which resulted in a turnover down field or one too many handballs because they werent confident to take the kick).
I think this happened a lot last year too, where the handballing chains looked so good, before that one final hospital pass that gets us in trouble. We were shocking for score conceded through turnovers. Seems like no one is confident enough to finish the chain and be the one to kick it onwards. I have no problem with that being our gameplan, but we need players who are confident enough in their kicking ability. The problem is that with Dunkley and Hunter being such big accumulators and such awful kicks (especially Dunkley) we seem to run into that problem more often than not. Once that sorts itself, I can see big improvement. Just need to fix our F50 entries
 

TedDougChris

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Looking back on this game I really dont think its as dire as people think, gameplan wise anyway. Yeah weve definitely gone the opposite way to pretty much every team with the handball to kick ratio but **** have you seen our footskills. Theres no way we compete with other sides with a similar method. Id rather do something completely different to the rest and something that suits our players strengths.

On quite a number of occasions we moved the ball quickly by hands and hit up leading targets in the forward 50, happened way more often than last year. There was a number of times we moved the ball quickly by hands but butchered the last kick inside 50 even when the player had found space. So i give that a tick to the gameplan but execution off.

On top of that there was a huge amount of times that we moved the ball extremely well by hands, but got sucked into one handball too many and turned it over. That will improve. The players have to learn when its necessary to just kick it. We also have to get better at getting the right players into space. All well and good to move the ball into space but we need to be getting your Williams and Sucklings on the receiving end not your Dunkleys and Wallis' which also happened a number of times (which resulted in a turnover down field or one too many handballs because they werent confident to take the kick).

Also need to learn to spread at angles better, too often wed have a heap of options running forward to keep the ball moving but theyre all clumped together and we get closed down. If they all adjusted their runs slightly all of a sudden its borderline impossible to shut them down. Again this will improve.

Its ugly at the moment but mark my words by round 5 or 6 we'll be running rings around some teams at docklands and scoring wont seem like such an issue all of a sudden.
While I agree, my overwhelming thought from the weekend was how much I miss Dougie wearing the red, white and blue. Someone who could kick and hit a target - both into and with the wind.
 

Next Waiting

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The last four games of last season is a much better indicator of how we are likely to want to play than the last JLT game IMO. I think Bevo was basically taking the piss on the weekend with the whole retro handballing thing.
 

Mattdougie

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The last four games of last season is a much better indicator of how we are likely to want to play than the last JLT game IMO. I think Bevo was basically taking the piss on the weekend with the whole retro handballing thing.
And the players decided to by not being able to hit a target?

Come on mate
 

VogonProsthetnic

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Worth remembering that we have a lot of players returning from injury and starting out at the club- Wood, Morris, Libba barely played whilst Dureuya, Smith, Lloyd and Hayes are new. English wasn't a senior player at the end rv23 either.

So we can't really take up where left off last year- which going to hurt our combinations at the start of the season.
 

perro_loco

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Looking back on this game I really dont think its as dire as people think, gameplan wise anyway. Yeah weve definitely gone the opposite way to pretty much every team with the handball to kick ratio but **** have you seen our footskills. Theres no way we compete with other sides with a similar method. Id rather do something completely different to the rest and something that suits our players strengths.

On quite a number of occasions we moved the ball quickly by hands and hit up leading targets in the forward 50, happened way more often than last year. There was a number of times we moved the ball quickly by hands but butchered the last kick inside 50 even when the player had found space. So i give that a tick to the gameplan but execution off.

On top of that there was a huge amount of times that we moved the ball extremely well by hands, but got sucked into one handball too many and turned it over. That will improve. The players have to learn when its necessary to just kick it. We also have to get better at getting the right players into space. All well and good to move the ball into space but we need to be getting your Williams and Sucklings on the receiving end not your Dunkleys and Wallis' which also happened a number of times (which resulted in a turnover down field or one too many handballs because they werent confident to take the kick).

Also need to learn to spread at angles better, too often wed have a heap of options running forward to keep the ball moving but theyre all clumped together and we get closed down. If they all adjusted their runs slightly all of a sudden its borderline impossible to shut them down. Again this will improve.

Its ugly at the moment but mark my words by round 5 or 6 we'll be running rings around some teams at docklands and scoring wont seem like such an issue all of a sudden.
Good assessment. the third quarter and patches in the second showed what we are trying to do. you are right, some posters get carried away with the negativity. i think the selection in round 1 will bring some surprises. it will be interesting to see what coaches come up with with the 666 rule. goals from center clearances will be a feature i believe. but you assessment is nice and even. nice read.
 
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Hey lads good game on the weekend. Thought you guys have a real good player on your hands in Naughton, reads the flight of the ball well and has really strong hands.

Good luck for the actual season!


St Kilda and proud.
Cheers. It would be bloody good if we had two Naughtons - one at each end!
 

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JLT (Marks versus Contested Marks)

JLT1: Versus Gold Coast, Marks 76, Contested Marks 10.

JLT2: Versus St Kilda, Marks 48, Contested Marks 5.

Naughton and Wood combined for 10 of the 15 Contested Marks.

Caleb Daniel and Bailey Smith did not take a Mark in either game.

I wish I had a big word to describe this disparity, thank you dog-watch. I would type out
all the players, but that would be unconscionable.
 
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