JLT2 vs Saints

[Next Waiting]

It strikes me that what is missing is that the team displays no joy
During 2015/16 there was a spirit
Maybe it’s winning makes it look like it’s there or makes it actually happen
But we appear to me too professional and lacking any panache
the list management post 2016 seems to have been intent on eradicating spirited players too.

Was watching Offsiders a few weeks back and one of the panelists (woman - rugers journo from Sydney) was talking about the change of coach for the Aussie women's soccer team. Blah blah blah as long as the new coach (man) understands and that men have to win to feel good, women have to feel good to win.
Hadn't heard it put like that before.
Anyways, our team are blokes, they aren't winning enough recently so no ones on cloud nine.

 

[Whoyagot]

Bit of a player by player review having just watched the replay + Bevo’s post match.

1 - Suckling: Didn’t really contribute much at all playing higher up the ground. Bev said he was happy with his defensive work on Geary and Robertson after the game as if Sucklings most important attributes are best utilised as a defensive Half Forward. Needs to half back or not at all, hopefully bevo is taking the piss and suckers in turn is lining up for kick ins against the swans as he would be one of the best at them in the Comp with the new rule changes. Will play round 1 but only because bevo likes him.

3 - Wallis: liked his work in the midfield compared to some of his previous showings there but he’s just too important a forward to leave out of the 50. McLean should have taken those midfield minutes more imo. Great to see him in such promising form though, really picked up where he left off from last year which can’t be said for some. Will play round 1.

4 - Bont: looks great! Looks a lot quicker and agile, really building into some strong form again and seems to have gotten over his hip. Would really like to see him stay with those many minutes mid, every time he touches the ball he makes something happen so we need to get him the ball as much as possible. Will play round 1

5 - Dunkley: thought he played a lot better then last JLT with more time in the mid. Although his kicking is still trash and he hasn’t really shown any improvement which is disappointing, he looked back in the similar form he was in come the end of last year which was great to see. Was really worried he was stuck back in the forward line last week for way to long. Will play round 1

6 - Smith: poor kicking but showed he could find the ball and looked quite strong in the contest for the time he was playing. Really keen to see how he improves over the course of the season. Bevo (as well as Jj on the boundary) said he was a strong chance to play round 1 so I’ve got him in the team!

7 - Hunter: this guy’s kicking is sooooo frustrating. Displays zero confidence in being able to move the ball forward and when he does really struggles to hit an easy target. I love how he covers the ground and finds the ball but it’s really sad to see that he hasn’t showed any improvement in this obvious deficiency. Will still play round 1.

8 - Trengrove: really battled in the ruck, love his follow up efforts. It’s between him and English for that spot I reckon. Honestly no idea who gets it at this stage which is a massive problem with the main season being 2 weeks away. I think he just pips English for his experience and tank. Plays round 1.

9 - Crozier: not a super flashy game but he looks one of our most consistent players right now. He’s really made that half back role his own, not much else to say. Will play round 1.

10 - Wood: Did a few nice things, looks to be growing more and more confident with his body. He’s such a rubbish kick though... not exactly the space you want to be in as captain of a club. Hopefully he can continue to improve over the course of the season. Will play round 1.

11 - Macrae: another great game, mr consistent. Has really improved his kicking over the last few years, wish players like hunter and Dunkley would take note. Will play round 1.

12 - Cordy: love this guy but his start to the year has been very average. Looked very fumbly and looks like his dear brother that he’s reached his physical limit in terms of his bodies development. Really worry about him playing on the big boys, especially when he was as fumbly as he was yesterday. Still, we don’t have too much else in the key back department. Plays round 1.

13 - Schache: had 5 shots at goal for 2.2. Not the worst return for his first game back. Hasn’t taken that quantum leap some of us were hoping and still needs to improve his contested marking but looks to be on a similar trajectory to last year which is promising. Will play round 1.

15 - Duryea: Looks solid and tough down back but was a bit dodgy with some of his kicking. I think with Naughton looking to start forward as I’ll discuss later, he’ll start round 1.

16 - McLean: quiet day playing a more forward role, can’t remember seeing him around the ball much at all. I actually don’t mind him playing more forward next season. He’s one of our more creative players and our midfield is so stacked right now so he could add a bit of X factor in that front half. I’d still like to see him taking more centre bounces though, I mentioned earlier that Wallis played more mid time this game, is like to see McLean used in his place and Wallis stay closer to goal. Quiet game playing in a tough position but has a lot of credits, will play round 1.

20 - Richards: very quiet day. Has a lot of energy when he’s near the ball but just couldn’t find any ball in open space where he does his best work. Bevi mentioned in the press conference one wing got absolutely smashed this game and Richards has to take some responsibility for that. 6 disposals starting on the wing just isn’t good enough and as much as this kid is going to be a jet long term, he needs some time in the twos adjusting to his new role. Won’t play round 1.

21 - Libba: not as strong a showing as his first JLT where he was in everything but another good hitout. He’s looking cherry ripe to explode in round 1. Love the cleanness he brings to the contest. Will play round 1.

22 - Lloyd: showed his worth very clearly today. Those two goals in a two minutes to change the moment is an attribute we’ve been crying out for. Seems very similar to Dickson but more explosive and a better field kick. Plays round 1.

26 - Gowers: looks low on form and confidence. Stringer esque in his lack of contest on the footy and to look for the easy one out the back. Looked a little bit better when he moved through the middle in the third quarter. Hopefully if we sure up our forward structure he becomes less of a dependant forward target and can be freed up to work up and down the ground. After these performances though his round 1 spot is in jeopardy. Just squeezes in though. Plays round 1.

32 - Hayes: Showed all the skills of a pick in the 70s. Seems like depth and not much more, good to be exposed to that level and I think there’s a bit to work with but he’s not ready imo. Would be very surprised to see him play round 1 but bevo has made srupider decisions. Won’t play round 1.

33 - Naughton: Great effort up forward, his contest in the air was great but I also thought his urgency at ground level was awesome too. He’s fast becoming one of our best players. HOWEVER: he was playing a st Kilda forward line missing their two best KPDs. I’m still tossing up whether he should start back or forward and I think he’ll be a lot more dependable as a back man. Being a forward is tough and as much as we need him there, we also look really shaky down back when he’s missing. Bevo however said he would start forward against the swans so I guess he’s starting forward. Plays round 1 (as a forward)

34 - Williams: Looked a bit all at sea with some of his disposal which is a shame because I’m a big fan. Really interesting that he’s been training with the mids all preseason yet starts at half back in both JLT games. I’d essentially like to see he and suckling swap positions for round 1, not sure he’ll even be selected though. Just makes round 1.

35 - Daniel: not as outstanding as his first game but I think he’ll be persisted with down back. A lot of people are commenting that he was getting caught on the big blokes but that was lately because he was the only one with the ability to work back and pick them up, not the best sign for our defensive unit and another’s. Sign that it’d be nice to have Naughton back there. Will play round 1.

38 - Morris: did some good things but also looked a bit slow. Still think he adds a lot to the backline with his voice and experience but I’m concerned with Naughton playing forward he’s going to have to take some of the big boys which is a really tough ask for someone his age. Will play round 1.

40 - Young: couple of strong efforts, good for the run. Just depth right now though. Misses round 1.

44 - English: as I was talking about with Trengrove it’s really line ball for who’ll take that ruck spot. My call is Trengrove but would t be surprised to see him selected. Just misses round 1.

Best 22 post analysis:

Duryea Morris Wood
Crozier Cordy Daniel
Hunter Macrae Dickson*
McLean Schache Wallis
Lloyd Naughton Gowers
Trengrove Bont Libba

I/C: Dunkley, Smith, Williams, Suckling

* I reckon Dickson deserves a crack based on his VFL form, from all accounts he’s been playing that attacking wing role and should be rewarded when you consider the poor performances in that role from Richards and Hayes. We simply need more players with goal sense and Dickson provides that.

What u think?

 

[Yojimbo]

Kick to Handball, differential expressed in ladder format. (Love The Ladder)

Rank 1: Hawthorn (+196)
Rank 2: Carlton (+169)
Rank 3: West Coast (+164)
Rank 4: GWS (+164)
Rank 5: St Kilda (+155)
Rank 6: Port Adelaide (+134)
Rank 7: Richmond (+133)
Rank 8: Adelaide (+129)

Rank 9: Sydney (+125)
Rank 10: Gold Coast (+122)
Rank 11: Collingwood (+120)
Rank 12: Brisbane (+118)
Rank 13: Geelong (+103)
Rank 14: Melbourne (+90)
Rank 15: Fremantle (+59)
Rank 16: Essendon (+44)
Rank 17: North Melbourne (+11)
Rank 18: Western Bulldogs (- 27)

Well there it is the JLT fest put into ladder format, Hawthorn lost both games same as we did so
I guess some people will say it does not matter, but even though the quality is lower they still
had a forty point lead at half time versus Richmond in JLT2 so their method is still dangerous.
One thing that is clear is that the easy beats from last year have gained ground and don't just
present easy volume wins as they have in the past.

 

[fred cook]

Best 22 post analysis:

Duryea Morris Wood
Crozier Cordy Daniel
Hunter Macrae Dickson*
McLean Schache Wallis
Lloyd Naughton Gowers
Trengrove Bont Libba

I/C: Dunkley, Smith, Williams, Suckling

* I reckon Dickson deserves a crack based on his VFL form, from all accounts he’s been playing that attacking wing role and should be rewarded when you consider the poor performances in that role from Richards and Hayes. We simply need more players with goal sense and Dickson provides that.

What u think?

Duryea Morris Wood
Crozier Cordy Daniel
Hunter Macrae Suckling *
McLean Schache Wallis
Lloyd Naughton Dickson
English Bont Libba

I/C: Dunkley, Smith, Williams, Trengrove

 

[Next Waiting]

Kick to Handball, differential expressed in ladder format. (Love The Ladder)

Rank 1: Hawthorn (+196)
Rank 2: Carlton (+169)
Rank 3: West Coast (+164)
Rank 4: GWS (+164)
Rank 5: St Kilda (+155)
Rank 6: Port Adelaide (+134)
Rank 7: Richmond (+133)
Rank 8: Adelaide (+129)

Rank 9: Sydney (+125)
Rank 10: Gold Coast (+122)
Rank 11: Collingwood (+120)
Rank 12: Brisbane (+118)
Rank 13: Geelong (+103)
Rank 14: Melbourne (+90)
Rank 15: Fremantle (+59)
Rank 16: Essendon (+44)
Rank 17: North Melbourne (+11)
Rank 18: Western Bulldogs (- 27)

Well there it is the JLT fest put into ladder format, Hawthorn lost both games same as we did so
I guess some people will say it does not matter, but even though the quality is lower they still
had a forty point lead at half time versus Richmond in JLT2 so their method is still dangerous.
One thing that is clear is that the easy beats from last year have gained ground and don't just
present easy volume wins as they have in the past.

I believe the assertion that JLT or any other preseason competition adds clarity or makes anything of any real consequence clear, to be a fallacy.

In no small part because no one, with the possible exception of a small number of fringe players hoping to attract some attention, is playing for anything other than the opportunity to blow a candle out, cop and give a bump, all whilst trying like hell to avoid injury so they are available for selection when an actual real game that's worth something breaks out.

 

[Mofra]

Best 22 post analysis:

Duryea Morris Wood
Crozier Cordy Daniel
Hunter Macrae Dickson*
McLean Schache Wallis
Lloyd Naughton Gowers
Trengrove Bont Libba

I/C: Dunkley, Smith, Williams, Suckling

* I reckon Dickson deserves a crack based on his VFL form, from all accounts he’s been playing that attacking wing role and should be rewarded when you consider the poor performances in that role from Richards and Hayes. We simply need more players with goal sense and Dickson provides that.

I like the team, I suspect we go in with one ruck (Swans are underdone in that area) and Richards still gets a shot on the wing as he was played high half forward which is no-man's land at AFL level.

I'd prefer Smith in (he's got huge upside and seemed to pick the pace of the game up more and more in JLT 2 as time wore on) but I suspect we pick Hayes which worries me.

Sadly I think English just misses out. Sam Reid seems to love playing against us so we might switch Naughton back after he starts to prove too much of an influence from about halftime.

 

[Yojimbo]

I believe the assertion that JLT or any other preseason competition adds clarity or makes anything of any real consequence clear, to be a fallacy.

In no small part because no one, with the possible exception of a small number of fringe players hoping to attract some attention, is playing for anything other than the opportunity to blow a candle out, cop and give a bump, all whilst trying like hell to avoid injury so they are available for selection when an actual real game that's worth something breaks out.

While I agree with you to an extent, I think it depends on where you are as a side. This year we have 6-6-6 coming in and to be
honest with you i am not sure the coaches have got their heads around it yet. The potential gains are plain to see for sides with
genuine structure, but not so for the other teams. I would of loved to see Lewis Young play full back on the weekend if they
wanted to try Naughton forward, JLT used to have structure when it was three games as you could see some evolution. We
looked like we were on the back of a big training block to be honest, very flat.

 

[Northernsoul74]

While I agree with you to an extent, I think it depends on where you are as a side. This year we have 6-6-6 coming in and to be
honest with you i am not sure the coaches have got their heads around it yet. The potential gains are plain to see for sides with
genuine structure, but not so for the other teams. I would of loved to see Lewis Young play full back on the weekend if they
wanted to try Naughton forward, JLT used to have structure when it was three games as you could see some evolution. We
looked like we were on the back of a big training block to be honest, very flat.

To get to the end of jlt and stumble across the idea of playing Naughton forward doesn’t reflect well on the coaching staff.

 

[Cruiserweight Champ]

He rotates our rucks cos we have no genuine B grade (forget about A grade). Trengove is a pinch hitter at best and being 'only' 197cm gives very little chance of winning hit outs --- so coming up against the best like Gawn at 208cm, Grundy 203cm, Jacobs 202cm etc....he cant compete. Not his fault cos I believe he has been a good pick up thus far, even Crozier has been very good after the bye las season.

We need English to at least break even which is a big ask given his lack of experience.

The two positions that we need to trade for are a key defender types like Rance, Hurley, McGovern, and genuine Ruckman even a Bellchambers would make a big difference especially with the new 6-6-6 rules and the wingman not being able to rush in to the centre square once ump bounces the ball. Clearances from centre bounces are going to be a massive this year.

 

[Virgin Dog]

He rotates our rucks cos we have no genuine B grade (forget about A grade). Trengove is a pinch hitter at best and being 'only' 197cm gives very little chance of winning hit outs --- so coming up against the best like Gawn at 208cm, Grundy 203cm, Jacobs 202cm etc....he cant compete. Not his fault cos I believe he has been a good pick up thus far, even Crozier has been very good after the bye las season.

We need English to at least break even which is a big ask given his lack of experience.

The two positions that we need to trade for are a key defender types like Rance, Hurley, McGovern, and genuine Ruckman even a Bellchambers would make a big difference especially with the new 6-6-6 rules and the wingman not being able to rush in to the centre square once ump bounces the ball. Clearances from centre bounces are going to be a massive this year.

If we are going to be playing Naughton forward long term (which is fine with me) we are desperately needing a quality KPD to come in. Looking at free agency, there's Tomlinson from GWS and Astbury from Richmond which is basically it. Otherwise, we'd need to try and poach someone out of contract (but outside of free agency) like Michael Hartley from Essendon or Rory Thompson from GC.

Not exactly spoiled for choice, but after missing out on guys like Hurley, Carlisle and Lever in previous years we have to be getting desperate at this stage. At least we know we have an enormous amount of cap space to spend so contract size shouldn't be an issue

 

[Mofra]

If we are going to be playing Naughton forward long term (which is fine with me) we are desperately needing a quality KPD to come in. Looking at free agency, there's Tomlinson from GWS and Astbury from Richmond which is basically it. Otherwise, we'd need to try and poach someone out of contract (but outside of free agency) like Michael Hartley from Essendon or Rory Thompson from GC.

Rory Thompson is an RFA, I think he's gettable especially coming off an ACL this year.

 

[Virgin Dog]

Rory Thompson is an RFA, I think he's gettable especially coming off an ACL this year.

Oh my mistake, was going off an article on the AFL.com.au that didn't list him as a free agent - shows how reliable they are..

If he's willing to relocate I'd love for us to grab him - only concern is he's 29 next year (coincidentally it's his 28th birthday today) which means he's not exactly a long termer. Originally from Queensland though so seems like the type to be a one-club player

 

[Northernsoul74]

Oh my mistake, was going off an article on the AFL.com.au that didn't list him as a free agent - shows how reliable they are..

If he's willing to relocate I'd love for us to grab him - only concern is he's 29 next year (coincidentally it's his 28th birthday today) which means he's not exactly a long termer. Originally from Queensland though so seems like the type to be a one-club player

He’s literally just done his acl. Huge risk in trading for him.

 

[Virgin Dog]

He’s literally just done his acl. Huge risk in trading for him.

Yeah ACL at 28 is a bit concerning. If we only picked him up, that's not enough, but if we got him along with someone like Astbury (meaning Naughton can permanently shift forward) I'd be happy with that

 

[Libba39]

Good observations. For some reason Williams, Dunkley and Cordy always start off the year poorly, Remember last year- r 1- everybody was ready to delist them. So not worried about those 3.

Our senior players are the worry. Wood, Morris, Trengove, Suckling.

Wood took a couple of strong (wood-like) marks on the weekend. He'll be ok.
Morris has looked good except when on a bigger defender and the ball was coming in quickly. I'll still back him though.
Trengove has had his colours lowered in both games but is ahead of English.
Suckling is the tricky one. Heard he played as a defensive forward the other day.

 

[Dazb86]

I really wish Schache played JLT 1 with English forward. We never got to really see if two rucks works.

 

[doggies ftw]

Looking back on this game I really dont think its as dire as people think, gameplan wise anyway. Yeah weve definitely gone the opposite way to pretty much every team with the handball to kick ratio but * have you seen our footskills. Theres no way we compete with other sides with a similar method. Id rather do something completely different to the rest and something that suits our players strengths.

On quite a number of occasions we moved the ball quickly by hands and hit up leading targets in the forward 50, happened way more often than last year. There was a number of times we moved the ball quickly by hands but butchered the last kick inside 50 even when the player had found space. So i give that a tick to the gameplan but execution off.

On top of that there was a huge amount of times that we moved the ball extremely well by hands, but got sucked into one handball too many and turned it over. That will improve. The players have to learn when its necessary to just kick it. We also have to get better at getting the right players into space. All well and good to move the ball into space but we need to be getting your Williams and Sucklings on the receiving end not your Dunkleys and Wallis' which also happened a number of times (which resulted in a turnover down field or one too many handballs because they werent confident to take the kick).

Also need to learn to spread at angles better, too often wed have a heap of options running forward to keep the ball moving but theyre all clumped together and we get closed down. If they all adjusted their runs slightly all of a sudden its borderline impossible to shut them down. Again this will improve.

Its ugly at the moment but mark my words by round 5 or 6 we'll be running rings around some teams at docklands and scoring wont seem like such an issue all of a sudden.

 

[Virgin Dog]

On top of that there was a huge amount of times that we moved the ball extremely well by hands, but got sucked into one handball too many and turned it over. That will improve. The players have to learn when its necessary to just kick it. We also have to get better at getting the right players into space. All well and good to move the ball into space but we need to be getting your Williams and Sucklings on the receiving end not your Dunkleys and Wallis' which also happened a number of times (which resulted in a turnover down field or one too many handballs because they werent confident to take the kick).

I think this happened a lot last year too, where the handballing chains looked so good, before that one final hospital pass that gets us in trouble. We were shocking for score conceded through turnovers. Seems like no one is confident enough to finish the chain and be the one to kick it onwards. I have no problem with that being our gameplan, but we need players who are confident enough in their kicking ability. The problem is that with Dunkley and Hunter being such big accumulators and such awful kicks (especially Dunkley) we seem to run into that problem more often than not. Once that sorts itself, I can see big improvement. Just need to fix our F50 entries

 

[TedDougChris]

Looking back on this game I really dont think its as dire as people think, gameplan wise anyway. Yeah weve definitely gone the opposite way to pretty much every team with the handball to kick ratio but **** have you seen our footskills. Theres no way we compete with other sides with a similar method. Id rather do something completely different to the rest and something that suits our players strengths.

On quite a number of occasions we moved the ball quickly by hands and hit up leading targets in the forward 50, happened way more often than last year. There was a number of times we moved the ball quickly by hands but butchered the last kick inside 50 even when the player had found space. So i give that a tick to the gameplan but execution off.

On top of that there was a huge amount of times that we moved the ball extremely well by hands, but got sucked into one handball too many and turned it over. That will improve. The players have to learn when its necessary to just kick it. We also have to get better at getting the right players into space. All well and good to move the ball into space but we need to be getting your Williams and Sucklings on the receiving end not your Dunkleys and Wallis' which also happened a number of times (which resulted in a turnover down field or one too many handballs because they werent confident to take the kick).

Also need to learn to spread at angles better, too often wed have a heap of options running forward to keep the ball moving but theyre all clumped together and we get closed down. If they all adjusted their runs slightly all of a sudden its borderline impossible to shut them down. Again this will improve.

Its ugly at the moment but mark my words by round 5 or 6 we'll be running rings around some teams at docklands and scoring wont seem like such an issue all of a sudden.

While I agree, my overwhelming thought from the weekend was how much I miss Dougie wearing the red, white and blue. Someone who could kick and hit a target - both into and with the wind.

 

[Next Waiting]

The last four games of last season is a much better indicator of how we are likely to want to play than the last JLT game IMO. I think Bevo was basically taking the piss on the weekend with the whole retro handballing thing.

 

[Mattdougie]

The last four games of last season is a much better indicator of how we are likely to want to play than the last JLT game IMO. I think Bevo was basically taking the piss on the weekend with the whole retro handballing thing.

And the players decided to by not being able to hit a target?

Come on mate

 

[Mattdougie]

Duryea Morris Wood
Crozier Cordy Daniel
Hunter Macrae Suckling *
McLean Schache Wallis
Lloyd Naughton Dickson
English Bont Libba

I/C: Dunkley, Smith, Williams, Trengrove

Gowers in for Williams and Trengove plays imo

 

[VogonProsthetnic]

Worth remembering that we have a lot of players returning from injury and starting out at the club- Wood, Morris, Libba barely played whilst Dureuya, Smith, Lloyd and Hayes are new. English wasn't a senior player at the end rv23 either.

So we can't really take up where left off last year- which going to hurt our combinations at the start of the season.

 

[perro_loco]

Looking back on this game I really dont think its as dire as people think, gameplan wise anyway. Yeah weve definitely gone the opposite way to pretty much every team with the handball to kick ratio but **** have you seen our footskills. Theres no way we compete with other sides with a similar method. Id rather do something completely different to the rest and something that suits our players strengths.

On quite a number of occasions we moved the ball quickly by hands and hit up leading targets in the forward 50, happened way more often than last year. There was a number of times we moved the ball quickly by hands but butchered the last kick inside 50 even when the player had found space. So i give that a tick to the gameplan but execution off.

On top of that there was a huge amount of times that we moved the ball extremely well by hands, but got sucked into one handball too many and turned it over. That will improve. The players have to learn when its necessary to just kick it. We also have to get better at getting the right players into space. All well and good to move the ball into space but we need to be getting your Williams and Sucklings on the receiving end not your Dunkleys and Wallis' which also happened a number of times (which resulted in a turnover down field or one too many handballs because they werent confident to take the kick).

Also need to learn to spread at angles better, too often wed have a heap of options running forward to keep the ball moving but theyre all clumped together and we get closed down. If they all adjusted their runs slightly all of a sudden its borderline impossible to shut them down. Again this will improve.

Its ugly at the moment but mark my words by round 5 or 6 we'll be running rings around some teams at docklands and scoring wont seem like such an issue all of a sudden.

Good assessment. the third quarter and patches in the second showed what we are trying to do. you are right, some posters get carried away with the negativity. i think the selection in round 1 will bring some surprises. it will be interesting to see what coaches come up with with the 666 rule. goals from center clearances will be a feature i believe. but you assessment is nice and even. nice read.

 

[SaintersUnite]

Hey lads good game on the weekend. Thought you guys have a real good player on your hands in Naughton, reads the flight of the ball well and has really strong hands.

Good luck for the actual season!


St Kilda and proud.