"Jobe Watson never cheated" - Hird

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Sep 15, 2009
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Well he did claim hysterically ... “Of 30 ASADA testing missions during the period in question, none of the 18 players tested declared the injections, despite being asked each time whether they had taken any supplements."

Hysterical - bit like the HTB regulars.

Of course we now know the time frames and he was just full of it, actually we knew that earlier.

He looks like a goose now and moving on he will look even sillier.
"We now know the time frames"?
So we have records of when they were injected then?
What about what they were injected with?
Why would they have times of injections, but not the substance?
And you honestly believe this?
And you call others deluded.
 

60sbomber

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Where did they search? Under the bed? Because it was super clear when googling thymosin that there were two varieties... one obviously for use by athletes, one for very sick people. Thymomodulin wasn't brought up until they realised thymosin alpha 1 wasn't really a valid option (I'll give you a clue: it was for hepatitis B and C, or AIDS sufferers).

The specific term thymomodulin was used by Dank in texts to the MFC doctor in Sep/Oct 2012, well before any investigation. He was using it at Melbourne straight after leaving Essendon to treat Trengove for recovery from his navicular fracture.
And yet ASADA, WADA and CAS all said he would never use it on footballers and made the consequent assumption that whenever he used the term "thymosin" it must have been TB4.
 
Sep 15, 2009
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The specific term thymomodulin was used by Dank in texts to the MFC doctor in Sep/Oct 2012, well before any investigation. He was using it at Melbourne straight after leaving Essendon to treat Trengove for recovery from his navicular fracture.
And yet ASADA, WADA and CAS all said he would never use it on footballers and made the consequent assumption that whenever he used the term "thymosin" it must have been TB4.

Bates to Dank:

"Sorry you still up? Trengove is not going to Darwin so I don't need the thymomodulin for tomorrow."

Dank to Bates:

"Should we consider AOD cream for Jack Trengove's navicular?"

Bates to Dank:

"Yep. ...

Dank to Bates:

"When we will start Jack Trengove on the AOD?"

Bates to Dank:

"Tomorrow"

Bates to Dank:

"Where can I get him to pick it up from?"

Dank to Bates:

"The pharmacy. Tell him to ring me and he can meet me there."

Get it right man, it was AOD
 

Bombfire

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I have and I know, somewhat better than you. but thanks for the suggestion. Maybe take your own advice
Me too - and he was incompetent at the AFP, and incompetent at ASADA. What about this pearler when Benny took over from Adriana. Benny- whats the standard of proof for a doping case? "Ummmmmmmm- look that's a tough one. When I was tucked away in my corner at the AFP the real agents talked about Beyond Reasonable Doubt. Am I getting close"
 

Bombfire

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Where did they search? Under the bed? Because it was super clear when googling thymosin that there were two varieties... one obviously for use by athletes, one for very sick people. Thymomodulin wasn't brought up until they realised thymosin alpha 1 wasn't really a valid option (I'll give you a clue: it was for hepatitis B and C, or AIDS sufferers).
That's right, used by athletes and obviously banned so don't be a silly girl. All the Tb4 nonsense was brought up when they buried their AOD case and looked pretty stupid.
 

Bombfire

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Here is what the hysterical but jubilant Ben said after the verdict.

ASADA conducted 30 testing missions at Essendon during the time in question between February and September 2012, 30 testing missions. Each time players subjected to tests were asked the standard questions by our doping control officers which were to declare any substances that they had taken, be it Panadol, Ibuprofen, protein powder, but in 30 tests- in 30 approaches only one player declared a supplement injection and declared that was for vitamin B.

Benny taking the piss, 30 testing missions, 30 testing missions, 30 approaches, 30 tests.

BUT BUT BUT Benny how many fit the time frames, but but but Benny please release the time frames for us to look at, why wont you do that - i know, because you haven't and cant match up the time frames.

Benny claim no injecting records exist but can match up time frames.
Hey cruncher- why does Benny refuse, let me repeat, REFUSE to disclose the dates the testing missions were conducted. You know, the testing missions resulting in only 15 players being tested in all of 2012 wherein the gullible public have been brainwashed into thinking all 34 players were tested and all 34 players deliberately failed to disclose their supplements within 7 days of being tested.
 

60sbomber

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Yep... and I'm over it. They, like the players, will never see the facts that are staring them right in the face. No point in arguing and more I think. It's all done and dusted now.
Seriously, do we have to do all this again? Perhaps looking at the bright side will help you guys move on:

I wrote, during the long leadup to the CAS decision, that 2 things were likely

1. CAS would find a way to support WADA's need to lower the burden of proof and reach a guilty verdict. This is not an allegation of corruption, just a recognition of how it works in legal matters where setting a precedent is an issue. There are very few black and white decisions. A court can easily find arguments to justify an outcome, and when it needs to support a principle it wants to support (in this case, WADA's ability to convict in circumstances with no direct evidence) it will find a way to do it.

2. No matter what the outcome, it would not settle the issue of whether the players are guilty or not. There is no certainty in what actually happened, what Dank actually used, and the CAS decision doesn't settle that. The idea that Essendon supporters should suddenly accept that the players are guilty as a result of the CAS decision would only be sustainable if the CAS decision was soundly based and reasoned, and it was very, very far from that.

If you don't like that I, and many others, still hold the same views as we did before the decision, then you'll just have to deal with it.
It is a valid viewpoint.
If you are frustrated that we continue to argue the toss when the issue comes up, that is bad luck.
Don't expect that whenever the issue comes up, your views will automatically be accepted as truth, just because CAS found the players guilty.
The CAS decision does nothing to validate your views and invalidate mine. Read 1. above.
 

Garlic muncher

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Who cares? Even if they neglected to mention the substances during just one test that's cause for concern.

There are some really "special" people on this board.

CAS sure didn't care about any sort of proof, you it appears as well

30 testing missions, 30 missions, 30 approaches.

The corner stone of the verdict made to look increasingly sly, underhanded and shonky.

Looks like the Australian member wanted no part of it, probably scripted as well though.
 
If it is so easy to disprove who took what when in relation to testing, why wasn't it brought up by the players silks when fighting the charges?
 
Aug 20, 2010
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CAS sure didn't care about any sort of proof, you it appears as well

30 testing missions, 30 missions, 30 approaches.

The corner stone of the verdict made to look increasingly sly, underhanded and shonky.

Looks like the Australian member wanted no part of it, probably scripted as well though.
They had an obscene amount of proof you
muppet
 

Bombfire

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If it is so easy to disprove who took what when in relation to testing, why wasn't it brought up by the players silks when fighting the charges?
You should ask Benny why he refuses to produce the testing details of the 15 players who were tested in 2012. That's 15 out of 34, not even half of the entire convicted, yet CAS garrotted them all. What a joke.
 

Garlic muncher

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They had an obscene amount of proof you
muppet

Yer, they undertook 30 testing missions, 30, 30 approaches.

We do know that the bulk of those mean SFA - but they had 30

Sounds good, but on close inspections only muppets would fall for it!!

SFA evidence then and SFA evidence now,
 

60sbomber

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Bates to Dank:

"Sorry you still up? Trengove is not going to Darwin so I don't need the thymomodulin for tomorrow."

Dank to Bates:

"Should we consider AOD cream for Jack Trengove's navicular?"

Bates to Dank:

"Yep. ...

Dank to Bates:

"When we will start Jack Trengove on the AOD?"

Bates to Dank:

"Tomorrow"

Bates to Dank:

"Where can I get him to pick it up from?"

Dank to Bates:

"The pharmacy. Tell him to ring me and he can meet me there."

Get it right man, it was AOD

thank you. You are demonstrating my point.
Whether the use of thymomodulin was postponed, or it was replaced by AOD, is not the point. The point is he used the specific term "thymomodulin" when referring to treatment for Trengove. ASADA, WADA and CAS said he would never use thymomodulin on footballers as it served no purpose.
And yet here he is in Sep/Oct 2012 talking about using it.
Clearly CAS is wrong, and its consequent assumption that Dank always meant TB4 when he used the term thymosin, is also wrong.
 

Bombfire

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I wrote, during the long leadup to the CAS decision, that 2 things were likely

1. CAS would find a way to support WADA's need to lower the burden of proof and reach a guilty verdict. This is not an allegation of corruption, just a recognition of how it works in legal matters where setting a precedent is an issue. There are very few black and white decisions. A court can easily find arguments to justify an outcome, and when it needs to support a principle it wants to support (in this case, WADA's ability to convict in circumstances with no direct evidence) it will find a way to do it.

2. No matter what the outcome, it would not settle the issue of whether the players are guilty or not. There is no certainty in what actually happened, what Dank actually used, and the CAS decision doesn't settle that. The idea that Essendon supporters should suddenly accept that the players are guilty as a result of the CAS decision would only be sustainable if the CAS decision was soundly based and reasoned, and it was very, very far from that.

If you don't like that I, and many others, still hold the same views as we did before the decision, then you'll just have to deal with it.
It is a valid viewpoint.
If you are frustrated that we continue to argue the toss when the issue comes up, that is bad luck.
Don't expect that whenever the issue comes up, your views will automatically be accepted as truth, just because CAS found the players guilty.
The CAS decision does nothing to validate your views and invalidate mine. Read 1. above.
Very well enunciated 60sbomber, the CAS decision had little merit from a legal perspective.
 
Sep 15, 2009
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thank you. You are demonstrating my point.
Whether the use of thymomodulin was postponed, or it was replaced by AOD, is not the point. The point is he used the specific term "thymomodulin" when referring to treatment for Trengove. ASADA, WADA and CAS said he would never use thymomodulin on footballers as it served no purpose.
And yet here he is in Sep/Oct 2012 talking about using it.
Clearly CAS is wrong, and its consequent assumption that Dank always meant TB4 when he used the term thymosin, is also wrong.
I demonstrated your point did i?
Your point was incorrect.
He also used the term "Thymomodulin" at Essendon, so where are the invoices, anyone with half a brain could dig them up if he used it.
 

Garlic muncher

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This is starting to give me the shits.

The form state you are required to list anything you had within the past 7 days. It also recommends to list anything you have had so that if something comes up later then you would be covered.

It is damning that not one of the 34 players listed any of the injections given by Dank, or his associates.

Watson could have, and should have, listed these injections. He didn't.

Complicit.

Apparently you have the shits and all the regulars on the HTB like your post, you have 10 likes for your post, i guess all those posters which of course does not surprise are under the same misapprehension as you.

Show me where it says that on the form ?

Don't run away again boyo.
 
Aug 20, 2010
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Apparently you have the shits and all the regulars on the HTB like your post, you have 10 likes for your post, i guess all those posters which of course does not surprise are under the same misapprehension as you.

Show me where it says that on either the form ?

Don't run away again boyo.
Sections on the form that are irrelevant are crossed out. Only one section is marked as optional. Pretty simple.
 
You should ask Benny why he refuses to produce the testing details of the 15 players who were tested in 2012. That's 15 out of 34, not even half of the entire convicted, yet CAS garrotted them all. What a joke.
Why didn't the players produce it to disprove ASADA's claims against them?
 
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