Scandal John Barnes launching concussion class action

[Dazzler10]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-19/john-barnes-ex-afl-ruckman-joins-planned-concussion-class-action/10915086

John Barnes suffers from crippling memory loss, mood swings and epilepsy — symptoms that he believes are a direct result of head knocks during an AFL career spanning 15 seasons.

 

[jenny61_99]

Poor bugger. I wonder though, if one of the questions that will be asked is if the player partook of recreational drugs during/after their playing career? Somehow they have to prove that his issues are as a direct result of concussions gained whilst playing, and the lack of appropriate handling of it. (Long term) ongoing abuse of mind altering drugs can often lead to similar symptoms later in life.

 

[Dazzler10]

Poor bugger. I wonder though, if one of the questions that will be asked is if the player partook of recreational drugs during/after their playing career? Somehow they have to prove that his issues are as a direct result of concussions gained whilst playing, and the lack of appropriate handling of it. (Long term) ongoing abuse of mind altering drugs can often lead to similar symptoms later in life.

Indeed. I know nothing of Barnes' lifestyle, but it would be very hard to prove a link to concussion if there's evidence of other abuse.

 

[SaltnPepperSam]

As mentioned above the drug abuse claims will be questions they need to answer.

Also I find it hard to see them winning a class-action for a few reasons
1) CTE wasn't a known thing until fairly recently in the grand scheme of Aussie footy
2) AFL as long as they didn't know of proven risks/links of headknocks should be covered (NFL knew and didn't change anything)
3) since CTE has been proven AFL have been very proactive in reducing concussions with rule changes, suspensions and the 20 minute delayed concussion rules, proves they care/are trying to stop CTE

4) everyone knew the inherent risks of footy in the 80s whether it's broken bones, cuts, torn ligaments and accepted those risks.

 

[FRUMPY]

What a crock of shit. Players just wanting $$$$ post retirement. Its a physical game, there are going to be effects o the body later on in life. Its like Greg Williams complaining about the same thing. You telling me he wouldn't have played the 95 grand final after being concussed in the prelim final if he knew he may suffer symptoms later in life?

 

[Cotchins Hair Piece]

I got shot at whilst I was on deployment in the Army, class action time?

 

[Mofra]

I have a fair bit of sympathy for Barnes, friend of the family and was always helpful back in his playing days.

 

[captain cotch 9]

I was at a sportsmans night that Barnes was a guest speaker.
All he did was talk about how much he used to get pissed. He thought his stories where hilerious...
Massive tool that is just a drunk.

 

[Silent Alarm]

How right it is to bring in lawyers is debatable, but this is why McCartin should be dissuaded from ever playing footy again. At any level. The AFL love to pontificate 'doing the right thing' when it comes to taking the piss out of women's footy online, gay marriage, and national immigration policy. But they don't actually want to do the right thing by the humans they employ.

We're only seeing this start now, as these guys enter their 40s and 50s. Fits of all description, amnesia, paranoia, tinnitus, mentall illness... even the lesser ones like dizziness, vision impairment isn't shit you really want to have every day from ages 45 plus.

McCartin is an idiot if he's considering playing again.

 

[Silent Alarm]

What a crock of shit. Players just wanting $$$$ post retirement. Its a physical game, there are going to be effects o the body later on in life. Its like Greg Williams complaining about the same thing. You telling me he wouldn't have played the 95 grand final after being concussed in the prelim final if he knew he may suffer symptoms later in life?

I think there's a big difference between this and someone like Daniel Chick going on facebook and talking incoherent gibberish while demanding Eagles fans pay for some sort of hyperbaric chamber.

The AFL wasn't the competition it is now and it's definitely not keeping up with science and medicine like it used to. I ******* hate the VFL administration from about 1985 onwards but I don't think it's the whole system covering up knowledge.

But... I'm pretty sure if Jonathon Brown – who really should've retired, some of his shitmixers were fu**in gruesome – sued them today he'd absolutely be right to, considering his era was professional, clubs employed all sorts of doctors, and this sort of thing was beginning to become known as a serious, likely side-effect of concussions.

 

[Minka Beaver]

Wasn't John Barnes a big drinker? In the scheme of contributory actions, that's a massive factor in any litigation.

But to the wider point, Peter Jess has been trying to get this class suit up for ages. Barnes just seems an odd choice as the front man.

 

[ChesterTreasure]

I think there's a big difference between this and someone like Daniel Chick going on facebook and talking incoherent gibberish while demanding Eagles fans pay for some sort of hyperbaric chamber.

The AFL wasn't the competition it is now and it's definitely not keeping up with science and medicine like it used to. I ******* hate the VFL administration from about 1985 onwards but I don't think it's the whole system covering up knowledge.

But... I'm pretty sure if Jonathon Brown – who really should've retired, some of his shitmixers were ****in gruesome – sued them today he'd absolutely be right to, considering his era was professional, clubs employed all sorts of doctors, and this sort of thing was beginning to become known as a serious, likely side-effect of concussions.

I'm still flabbergasted that Chick's go fund me page actually grew legs.
Some of the donations were staggering from people that probably didn't have the means to really contribute but were perhaps still a little star-struck.
I often wonder how much use the chamber actually got and of it's whereabouts now.

 

[Silent Alarm]

I'm still flabbergasted that Chick's go fund me page actually grew legs.
Some of the donations were staggering from people that probably didn't have the means to really contribute but were perhaps still a little star-struck.
I often wonder how much use the chamber actually got and of it's whereabouts now.

People are ******* idiots, and like a lot of similar things, the poorest people are the ones who donate the most. Completely misplaced charity.

Chicky – and he is Chicky let's remember, he always referred to himself in the third person as that – is a uh, colourful, kooky, and off-beat individual. Or just nuts. Point is, I think a glorified bath wasn't what he needed.

Some of the yarns I've heard about him in recent years is insane, insane how a bloke who played professional football for nearly 15 years has nothing.

In the end (I'm pretty sure I read in the paper) the Eagles bought him his hyperbaric chamber to shut him up.

 

[ChesterTreasure]

In the end (I'm pretty sure I read in the paper) the Eagles bought him his hyperbaric chamber to shut him up.

Which makes you wonder where the donations went.

 

[combotron1979]

I believe Chick in the end had a legitimate claim for treatment in the form of a hypabaric chamber or something similar. When he retired from the eagles and especially after the game where he was elbowed in the head by Solomon, he wasnt given a proper medical that most players get when retiring. He had a rare whiplash injury of sometype which in effect had some fluid (possibly brain fluid ?) leaking which caused his ongoing issues... i cant remember everything but he posted about it on bigfooty a few years back. Apologised for the herald sun article as well.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[ChesterTreasure]

I believe Chick in the end had a legitimate claim for treatment in the form of a hypabaric chamber or something similar. When he retired from the eagles and especially after the game where he was elbowed in the head by Solomon, he wasnt given a proper medical that most players get when retiring. He had a rare whiplash injury of sometype which in effect had some fluid (possibly brain fluid ?) leaking which caused his ongoing issues... i cant remember everything but he posted about it on bigfooty a few years back. Apologised for the herald sun article as well.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Either that or he was offered the medical and told them to stick it as he walked out the door.
It's funny how the need for treatment didn't arise until he was on the bones of his arse some years later.

 

[D-N-R]

Might not get very far with this. When people have sued smoking companies, the NFL, and even asbestosis victims vs CSR, they have won because the organisations have known of the danger and covered it up.

The reason the AFL has been so vocal on the issue and proactive on rule changes is to protect them from any future class action.

All the best to Barnsey, I hope he gets some help, but he might not get much joy in the courts.

 

[Minka Beaver]

Might not get very far with this. When people have sued smoking companies, the NFL, and even asbestosis victims vs CSR, they have won because the organisations have known of the danger and covered it up.

The reason the AFL has been so vocal on the issue and proactive on rule changes is to protect them from any future class action.

All the best to Barnsey, I hope he gets some help, but he might not get much joy in the courts.

Barnes, Greg Williams, Dean Kemp, John Platten and a bunch of others who present signs of concussion-related illness all played before such rules were implemented. At best, your club doctor used to mandate a week’s rest. At worst, you kept playing and kept receiving concussive and sub-concussive hits.

The AFL could be bang to rights. It was only in 2011 that they finally scrapped the rule that allowed players who’d been stretchered off to return to play 20 minutes later, providing they’d had club medical clearance (and club doctors really aren’t neutral arbiters). They must have known before then the danger presented by head knocks.

But even if the AFL aren’t liable, then at the very least it’s a reminder to the AFL and the AFLPA to keep the Players’ Retirement Scheme well-funded, because CTE will be an ongoing issue for decades.

 

[telsor]

Barnes, Greg Williams, Dean Kemp, John Platten and a bunch of others who present signs of concussion-related illness all played before such rules were implemented. At best, your club doctor used to mandate a week’s rest. At worst, you kept playing and kept receiving concussive and sub-concussive hits.

The AFL could be bang to rights. It was only in 2011 that they finally scrapped the rule that allowed players who’d been stretchered off to return to play 20 minutes later, providing they’d had club medical clearance (and club doctors really aren’t neutral arbiters). They must have known before then the danger presented by head knocks.

But even if the AFL aren’t liable, then at the very least it’s a reminder to the AFL and the AFLPA to keep the Players’ Retirement Scheme well-funded, because CTE will be an ongoing issue for decades.

Players played knowing there are risks of injury, and that one of those risks was concussion. Sure, they can say the details/long term effects were little understood, but to prove their case, they'd need to prove that the AFL had a pretty good idea and did nothing.

That the AFL accepted clubs doing the wrong thing probably isn't enough if what they did was in line with reasonable/expert medical opinion at the time.


(the other problem would be proving the AFL culpable rather than the clubs...).

 

[D-N-R]

T

Barnes, Greg Williams, Dean Kemp, John Platten and a bunch of others who present signs of concussion-related illness all played before such rules were implemented. At best, your club doctor used to mandate a week’s rest. At worst, you kept playing and kept receiving concussive and sub-concussive hits.

The AFL could be bang to rights. It was only in 2011 that they finally scrapped the rule that allowed players who’d been stretchered off to return to play 20 minutes later, providing they’d had club medical clearance (and club doctors really aren’t neutral arbiters). They must have known before then the danger presented by head knocks.

But even if the AFL aren’t liable, then at the very least it’s a reminder to the AFL and the AFLPA to keep the Players’ Retirement Scheme well-funded, because CTE will be an ongoing issue for decades.

The 20 min rule for being stretchered off was to prevent teams using a stretcher to interrupt the play and it is still in use.

The AFL had a mandatory period of being off the field for a concussion test but changed it a couple of times. I think it was 25 mins of game time which then got amended to actual time to leaving it up to the doctor.

The AFL were hot on concussions around the time the NFL started talking about it and the medical research was published.

Unless players can find something that shows the AFL knew about the dangers but covered it up or ignored it, then they won't be culpable. IMO.

 

[FrankGrimes]

While I don’t think he will win his case if he does could this seriously cost the afl tens of millions of dollars? Would this be covered via insurance? Peter Jess is involved, that bloke is only interested in $$$&

 

[Minka Beaver]

The 20 min rule for being stretchered off was to prevent teams using a stretcher to interrupt the play and it is still in use.

The AFL had a mandatory period of being off the field for a concussion test but changed it a couple of times. I think it was 25 mins of game time which then got amended to actual time to leaving it up to the doctor.

It was 20 minutes of game time for concussion until the start of the 2011 season. The signal for change was when Jordan Lewis got cleaned up by Jarrod Harbrow in 2010, was stretchered off and then returned after 20 minutes’ elapsed play. Lewis was a mess for ages afterwards and admitted he should have spent time away from footy.

At sometime in the mid 2000s they started doing those memory/reflex tests, where players’ post-incident scores were compared against pre-season results (which it later turned out players were deliberately low-balling).

The AFL were hot on concussions around the time the NFL started talking about it and the medical research was published.

Unless players can find something that shows the AFL knew about the dangers but covered it up or ignored it, then they won't be culpable. IMO.

Yeah, plus the voluntary assumption of risk hurdle is huge. Yet they may not be insurmountable barriers.

 

[Silent Alarm]

Interesting: re stretchers... haven't seen one used for years.

 

[Benny78]

Surely there's some sort've accountability on the player for signing up to the sport to the first place. If you're stupid and play sport there's am obvious chance you might get knocked in the head and become stupider

 

[deck]

CTE is yet to be proven as effecting AFL players. The only known player tested for it who played WAFL and suffered many concussions came back as showing no signs of CTE.