John Cena

[THRILLHO]

Argueing against the statement that Cena will go down as one of the top 5 wrestlers of all time is like argueing that Geelong didnt win last years flag yet mulitple muppets have attempted it in this thread

That analogy makes zero sense. The AFL is a sport, WWE is entertainment. John Cena being in the top five wrestlers of all time is purely subjective and goes far beyond number of titles won. We're looking at wrestling ability, promo ability, how a wrestler can entertain the crowd and work a match.

Cena draws a huge reaction from the crowd. It was clear that even against The Rock there were quite a few Let's Go Cena/Cena Sucks chants. So his polarising stature in the WWE even managed to dwarf The Rock. But he draws a huge reaction because he's been forced down our throats for 7 years. People have decided they can't ignore him, the WWE won't listen so they choose to boo him.

But just because the WWE constantly puts the belt on Cena doesn't make him the best. How can he be the best when he can't even play his character properly? No matter how much Cena (and the WWE) try to downplay the face/heel dynamic and simply claim that Cena is Cena the sole dynamic of wrestling is built on the face/heel structure. Strip that away and wrestling would be completely boring.

I don't dislike Cena - and I was even a bit impressed how he won people over in the Rock feud - but I cannot stand that he doesn't refresh his character, completely ruins and no sells huge moments by smirking his stupid troll grin during dramatic moments (see: Lesnar's return, and his face-to-face confrontations with Rocky), cuts the same promo every damn time he loses (I respect the hell out of my opponent, I respect the WWE Universe and I will always rise above hate - sidebar: seriously, he was embarrassed by Rock at SS, lost to him at WM, is hypocritical in his portrayal of his character (hustle, loyalty, respect but calls Eve a hoe, for example) booed constantly and all he wants to do is shake the hand of Rock? C'mon son), and never changes his five moves of doom.

His matches are only interesting if you are a smark or four years old. The only interest I derive from him is how much Vince will try to protect Cena and how he wins or loses.

Sum up: he's not turning heel, he's just going to spin the same old shit he has since 2005 and wins matches because kid's buy his shirts. Yep, best ever.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Most reasonable posters agree with me...Will definitely be top 5 ever by the end of his career if not the best of all

Hogan, Savage, Hart, Michals, Taker, SCSA, Rock all easily over Cena and that's just off the top of my head. So no, there's no way he'll be considered "top 5".

 

[Rusty Brookes]

Im merely pointing out the inconsistencies of your flawed arguement

He has been a 19 time title winner and has also put over many young wrestlers in the process. His value to the industry is second to none.

Keep flailing away with the blind Cena hatred though

Back up your argument and name the young wrestlers he has put over.

Look I don't hate the guy. He seems nice enough (his work with kids is to be commended) but to say he's going to be the greatest wrestler of all time just doesn't add up. Yes, he's the number one guy albeit at a time when interest in pro wrestling is at a very low ebb. I'd argue the WWE brand is the most important money making asset Vince has. Do people watch WrestleMania because John Cena is in the main event or do they watch it because it's WrestleMania?

To me John Cena is the modern day equivalent of the Ultimate Warrior.

 

[THRILLHO]

Back up your argument and name the young wrestlers he has put over.

CM Punk.

Um, and, um... That's it. There's a reason there's a dearth of new stars in the WWE and that's because WWE banked everything on Cena and Orton to be the next Rock and Austin. Simply hasn't happened. Orton is a talent vacuum and people are completely sick of Cena.

Cena could've put Nexus and Wade Barrett over huge.

 

[Jade's]

CM Punk.

Um, and, um... That's it. There's a reason there's a dearth of new stars in the WWE and that's because WWE banked everything on Cena and Orton to be the next Rock and Austin. Simply hasn't happened. Orton is a talent vacuum and people are completely sick of Cena.

Cena could've put Nexus and Wade Barrett over huge.

The Miz
Sheamus
Barrett

 

[THRILLHO]

The Miz
Sheamus
Barrett

You don't understand what putting someone over actually means do you?

Cena losing to The Miz courtesy of a Rock Bottom and rendering Miz's victory at WM as practically worthless in favour of a year long build to Cena vs. Rock is not putting The Miz over.

 

[Jade's]

You don't understand what putting someone over actually means do you?

Cena losing to The Miz courtesy of a Rock Bottom and rendering Miz's victory at WM as practically worthless in favour of a year long build to Cena vs. Rock is not putting The Miz over.

So you choose to look at the one match rather then the entire feud which the miz dominated

 

[Lensen]

ten years ago the rock was a one trick catchphrase spouter who had five moves and the worst finishing move of all time, with benoit and eddie the solid hands but innanet darlings

Now the rock is the greatest and cena is the rock of 10 years ago, with punk and bryan the innanet darlings

Never change innanet

 

[Jade's]

ten years ago the rock was a one trick catchphrase spouter who had five moves and the worst finishing move of all time, with benoit and eddie the solid hands but innanet darlings

Now the rock is the greatest and cena is the rock of 10 years ago, with punk and bryan the innanet darlings

Never change innanet

No your wrong... Coz the Internet people say so coz it's uncool to respect John Cena for what he is

 

[Dont be a lemon]

Punk's gonna kill his wife and kid and Bryan's heart is gonna give out?

 

[Cleavy]

So you choose to look at the one match rather then the entire feud which the miz dominated

where is Miz now? case closed.

 

[THRILLHO]

ten years ago the rock was a one trick catchphrase spouter who had five moves and the worst finishing move of all time, with benoit and eddie the solid hands but innanet darlings

Now the rock is the greatest and cena is the rock of 10 years ago, with punk and bryan the innanet darlings

Never change innanet

Dafuq?

Do you actually listen when watching? Ten years ago The Rock was the most over babyface in the fed, he then had one of the most memorable heel turns after beating Hulk Hogan.

Cena gets booed out of the building. Constantly. Oh but that's just that CONTROVERSIAL JEEEEYOOON CEEEEENA!

There is literally no comparison.

 

[TheVelourFog]

Top 5 of all time is very subjective depending on what you're basing it on. If it's just based on number of titles won then yeah he probably will be but if it's based on things like wrestling ability and importance to the overall building of the company then he won't even be close. People like Hogan and Flair will always be seen as more significant to the company for popularising it in the early years. While people like Austin, Rock, Michaels, Triple H, Undertaker, Bret Hart etc are more important based on how big they made the company overall. John Cena will probably never be seen in the same light as those guys.

 

[Jade's]

where is Miz now? case closed.

So now its his fault Miz has floundered?

 

[Jade's]

Dafuq?

Do you actually listen when watching? Ten years ago The Rock was the most over babyface in the fed, he then had one of the most memorable heel turns after beating Hulk Hogan.

Cena gets booed out of the building. Constantly. Oh but that's just that CONTROVERSIAL JEEEEYOOON CEEEEENA!

There is literally no comparison.

Im guessing you are 15 and werent around 10 years ago

Very relevant comparison

 

[Jade's]

Top 5 of all time is very subjective depending on what you're basing it on. If it's just based on number of titles won then yeah he probably will be but if it's based on things like wrestling ability and importance to the overall building of the company then he won't even be close. People like Hogan and Flair will always be seen as more significant to the company for popularising it in the early years. While people like Austin, Rock, Michaels, Triple H, Undertaker, Bret Hart etc are more important based on how big they made the company overall. John Cena will probably never be seen in the same light as those guys.

Cena has been far better for wrestling than all of those you listed bar maybe Austin and the Rock. There has never been a more over face in the history of the company

 

[THRILLHO]

Im guessing you are 15 and werent around 10 years ago

Very relevant comparison

That makes zero sense. Weren't around 10 years ago? Wasn't around where? Bigfooty? Wrestling? Life in general? How was Bigfooty 10 years ago? What alias were you kicking around under then?

2002 I was 14 and as into wrestling as I've ever been. I was a huge Rocky mark. He was ridiculously over. He was the biggest star at the time. I could point to ANY number of youtube videos which highlight this. He could barely cut a promo without having to pause for the Rocky chants.

Cena has been far better for wrestling than all of those you listed bar maybe Austin and the Rock. There has never been a more over face in the history of the company

HOLY SHIT.

You're just trolling now.

Cena better for wrestling than Hogan?

Hogan is wrestling. Hogan is the biggest wrestling name ever.

Cena is just some guy who is "over" (which you're clearly taking to mean someone who gets a reaction whether said reaction is what they're trying for or not) with the crowd because he has been force fed to us since 2003.

 

[TheVelourFog]

Cena has been far better for wrestling than all of those you listed bar maybe Austin and the Rock. There has never been a more over face in the history of the company

Hogan pretty much carried the WWF on his back and made it the most popular wrestling organisation going around. Cena will never be as important as Hogan was no matter what he does. Others like Shawn Michaels and Triple H along with the likes of Austin, Rock and Undertaker helped turn it from a fairly popular wrestling show to one of the most popular shows going around during the 90's. Cena will probably be considered great when he retires but he just won't be as good or as important to the building of the company as those guys.

 

[Jade's]

That makes zero sense. Weren't around 10 years ago? Wasn't around where? Bigfooty? Wrestling? Life in general? How was Bigfooty 10 years ago? What alias were you kicking around under then?

2002 I was 14 and as into wrestling as I've ever been. I was a huge Rocky mark. He was ridiculously over. He was the biggest star at the time. I could point to ANY number of youtube videos which highlight this. He could barely cut a promo without having to pause for the Rocky chants.

So you were the exact kid you are now saying Cena is over with now?

HOLY SHIT.

You're just trolling now.

Cena better for wrestling than Hogan?

Hogan is wrestling. Hogan is the biggest wrestling name ever.

Cena is just some guy who is "over" (which you're clearly taking to mean someone who gets a reaction whether said reaction is what they're trying for or not) with the crowd because he has been force fed to us since 2003.

I agree Hogan IS Wrestling.

Cena > Michaels, HHH, Undertaker, Hart

 

[Lensen]

That makes zero sense. Weren't around 10 years ago? Wasn't around where? Bigfooty? Wrestling? Life in general? How was Bigfooty 10 years ago? What alias were you kicking around under then?

2002 I was 14 and as into wrestling as I've ever been. I was a huge Rocky mark. He was ridiculously over. He was the biggest star at the time. I could point to ANY number of youtube videos which highlight this. He could barely cut a promo without having to pause for the Rocky chants.





HOLY SHIT.

You're just trolling now.

Cena better for wrestling than Hogan?

Hogan is wrestling. Hogan is the biggest wrestling name ever.

Cena is just some guy who is "over" (which you're clearly taking to mean someone who gets a reaction whether said reaction is what they're trying for or not) with the crowd because he has been force fed to us since 2003.

"rocky sucks" got a fair workout around summerslam 2002 and afterward, until he left to make movies and came back as a heel

 

[Jade's]

"rocky sucks" got a fair workout around summerslam 2002 and afterward, until he left to make movies and came back as a heel

Didnt happen because it doesn suit their arguement

 

[TRAWP]

His in ring skills a mid card level, microphone skills main event and appearance can be called the same. Is nothing but lucky to have come into wrestling when he did.

 

[Jade's]

His in ring skills a mid card level

Didnt watch Wrestlemania where he carried the Rock?

 

[Demonic Ascent]

He hasn't been as bad the last 12 months as previously but I still can't get over that stupid smirk he refuses to wipe from his face. Show us it means something to you for chrissakes.

Most of my problems with Cena aren't with him specifically but moreso with the direction the WWE pushes him but really they are one and the same. I can't have a go at his "5 moves of doom" because really most wrestlers are the same - Bret Hart was reknowned for it but is considered one of the best technical wrestlers in WWE history. What I hate is his horrible "acting" and his character more than anything. And it's not because he is "over" with the kids I hated him the first time I saw when he came out as a white rapper trying to rip off someone like Eminem - he may have even been a heel at that stage but I'm not sure.

But my fiances 7 & 8 year old cousins love him so what do I know? They're the ones who buy his t-shirts and toys so maybe they're onto something. What I don't get though is that by going after one market (PG13/kids/women) in the quest for dollars they are alienating a potentially bigger market (MA15/15-25yo males) who also spend just on different things (t-shirts/PPV's etc). They've made their money off him would they really lose much by turning him heel at this stage?

 

[Jade's]

He hasn't been as bad the last 12 months as previously but I still can't get over that stupid smirk he refuses to wipe from his face. Show us it means something to you for chrissakes.

Most of my problems with Cena aren't with him specifically but moreso with the direction the WWE pushes him but really they are one and the same. I can't have a go at his "5 moves of doom" because really most wrestlers are the same - Bret Hart was reknowned for it but is considered one of the best technical wrestlers in WWE history. What I hate is his horrible "acting" and his character more than anything. And it's not because he is "over" with the kids I hated him the first time I saw when he came out as a white rapper trying to rip off someone like Eminem - he may have even been a heel at that stage but I'm not sure.

But my fiances 7 & 8 year old cousins love him so what do I know? They're the ones who buy his t-shirts and toys so maybe they're onto something. What I don't get though is that by going after one market (PG13/kids/women) in the quest for dollars they are alienating a potentially bigger market (MA15/15-25yo males) who also spend just on different things (t-shirts/PPV's etc). They've made their money off him would they really lose much by turning him heel at this stage?

Yet people in the 15-25 bracket still tune in every week to bag Cena if nothing else.