John Winston Howard - what is his legacy?

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Seeds

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That would take all the people who stood and cheered while it happened to discover a conscience that they certainly didn't display at the time.
Most of them are old and will be dead soon. Those who were younger and supported it will then be in the minority.

Plus the labor and greens will rightfully also shine a greater light on it. albeit labor might take a while to come round to it.
 

eastfreo75

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John Howard Australia’s best politician but worst Prime Minister.

Keating and Hawke government transforming the Australian economy and doing the hard lifting structural changes.

Howard brings in the GST and gun reforms but otherwise increases middle class welfare and brings in franking credits as a rort to stay in power.

Howard with big spending creates a structural deficit of 4%.

The reason we have a Trillion debt is because of Howard’s legacy.
 

Seeds

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John Howard Australia’s best politician but worst Prime Minister.

Keating and Hawke government transforming the Australian economy and doing the hard lifting structural changes.

Howard brings in the GST and gun reforms but otherwise increases middle class welfare and brings in franking credits as a rort to stay in power.

Howard with big spending creates a structural deficit of 4%.

The reason we have a Trillion debt is because of Howard’s legacy.
Dont blame howard for morrison. you cant say howard would of been such a fool in regards to the pandemic or bush fires
 

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eastfreo75

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Dont blame howard for morrison. you cant say howard would of been such a fool in regards to the pandemic or bush fires
Yes and no.

Howard run out a lot of small l liberals.

Create a power imbalance for the hard right to have more say they should have.

Howard would have never made the political mistakes that Morrison did, but at the same thing Morrison took a lot of risks that worked last election and went south this time.
 

SBD Gonzalez

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Kidding, right?
No. They are similar parties on major policies if you remember Howard’s work choices individual agreements and casual work forces. Well Labor got in power and a Gillard wrote the fair work act. Same crap policy just different name

We have Albo warning us that power prices will still continue to sky rocket. Albos plan for hosing with government chipping in X amount is similar to that of Scotty from marketing, except government will own 20% of it not 20/30k first home buyer grantsz

What happened to house prices after the housing grant was announced. Prices sky rocketed

They are on major policies same crap but different names and colours as they serve the same overlords.

The Greens! Say no more! The hardcore communist party located in inner city electorates whilst pretending to care for the environment and to the hippies and young generations.

Bandit and Di Natalie and other members are hardcore communists. They wrote there thesis in uni on marxist and members along with there parents of the socialist alternative.

For basic communist history, Lenin, the Bolsheviks and the Russian revolution along with the first 60 years of the CCP

So yeah la la lane?

Yeah, La La Land. "Hardcore communists" LOL. Don't recall them calling for the forced collectivisation of all industry and agriculture.

Need to do a night course on basic political science pal.

Enjoy the slowly dawning realisation over the next three years that a lot of your fellow Australians are far more progressive than you had assumed.
 

Kwality

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Need to change since to including

So change the original post, waiting for someone to quote the altered post as my own. Roger that, next thing you'll be offering advice on integrity :'(
 
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Gough

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& the role of both sides will get a going over UNLESS the historians are writing a political history reflecting that lean.
Labor reintroduced offshore detention but that was only after Howard had created the conditions that saw any sort of push for a humane refugee policy being rejected out of hand.
 

Kwality

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You’re the deluded one. Howard (as Fraser’s incompetent Treasurer) left Keating an absolute shitshow post the 1983 election and Keating spent a decade letting him know all about it. Keating still lives rent free in that nasty little goblin’s head.

If you don’t believe me you are free to check the evidence for yourself. Many of Keating’s famous barrages are readily available on Youtube. There are published works detailing Keating’s withering takedowns of the miserable little pissant. John Howard was and is literally a living punchline for Keating.

Howard’s response, out of petty spite was to try to dismantle the modern society that Keating largely built.

And we are still paying the price for it

Remember this:
Paul Keating mentally destroyed John Howard.

Textbook hubris.
You need to widen the context because you know the history you are quoting is a smokescreen given your failure to acknowledge Keating lost the election of 1996 to Howard who went on to win again in 1998, 2001 & 2004 - not bad for someone who was mentally destroyed.
Hawke beat Howard, not Keating.

It was easy to vote for Bob after the Fraser years, but its your original claim 'mentally destroyed John Howard' that is delusional. The Hawke Government is the best of my time.
 

Seeds

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Yes and no.

Howard run out a lot of small l liberals.

Create a power imbalance for the hard right to have more say they should have.

Howard would have never made the political mistakes that Morrison did, but at the same thing Morrison took a lot of risks that worked last election and went south this time.
Fair point
 

Kwality

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Labor reintroduced offshore detention but that was only after Howard had created the conditions that saw any sort of push for a humane refugee policy being rejected out of hand.

Not to mention the rise & fall of the people smuggling business, the rise & fall of detention centres.
 

Gough

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Not to mention the rise & fall of the people smuggling business, the rise & fall of detention centres.
The argument has become settled. Australia has to have this hardline, frankly inhumane refugee policy or be faced with a deluge of asylum seekers and there's not really been any attempt to look at the acres of grey area between these two poles which I would argue is a result of Howard's shameful weaponisation of this issue post Tampa.
 

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Ned_Flanders

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& the role of both sides will get a going over UNLESS the historians are writing a political history reflecting that lean.

God you talk crap. Historians tend to be pretty dry and impartial, it's just you are only aware of the "woke" s**t Rupert tells you to wet the bed about.

Want better history papers? Go back to uni and do your PhD and show the world how it should be done
 

Kwality

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God you talk crap. Historians tend to be pretty dry and impartial, it's just you are only aware of the "woke" s**t Rupert tells you to wet the bed about.

Want better history papers? Go back to uni and do your PhD and show the world how it should be done

Try ....
 

The Cryptkeeper

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Remember this:


Textbook hubris.
You need to widen the context because you know the history you are quoting is a smokescreen given your failure to acknowledge Keating lost the election of 1996 to Howard who went on to win again in 1998, 2001 & 2004 - not bad for someone who was mentally destroyed.
Hawke beat Howard, not Keating.

It was easy to vote for Bob after the Fraser years, but its your original claim 'mentally destroyed John Howard' that is delusional. The Hawke Government is the best of my time.

Drivel.

Utter drivel.

I make no mention of the election Keating lost because it bears no relevance to the point I am making. Keating was at least as important as Hawke in that government and it Keating’s work that Howard and his minions have been trying to dismantle.

Comprehension is clearly not your strong suit though, so I am not at all surprised at your line of rebuttal. Without any irony at all it is you who have narrowed the context of the point I originally made.
 
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Kwality

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Drivel.

Utter drivel.

I make no mention of the election Keating lost because it bears no relevance to the point I am making. Keating was at least as important as Hawke in that government and it Keating’s work that Howard and his minions have been trying to dismantle.

Comprehension is clearly not your strong suit though, so I am not at all surprised at your line of rebuttal. Without any irony at all it is you who have narrowed the context of the point I originally made.
Paul Keating mentally destroyed John Howard.


Say no more ... after being destroyed, Lazarus .... in no way did Keating ever destroy Howard.
As for comprehension, I did limit my objection, compre?
 

Magruder

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Drivel.

Utter drivel.

I make no mention of the election Keating lost because it bears no relevance to the point I am making. Keating was at least as important as Hawke in that government and it Keating’s work that Howard and his minions have been trying to dismantle.

Comprehension is clearly not your strong suit though, so I am not at all surprised at your line of rebuttal. Without any irony at all it is you who have narrowed the context of the point I originally made.

I so prefer dribble to describe work like his. But apart from that, every word is spot on.
 

Number37

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Strange interpretation of destroyed .... goes on to win election after election.

Oh I see.
Winning election = not destroyed.
Losing election + your own seat as PM = FUBAR.


Now is the time when you usually say something like ..."I voted against him in '07"
 

MC Extra Dollop

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I'd say that for anyone who isn't old enough to have voted in an election where he was running for PM (which goes up to people approaching their mid-30s) he's known for being PM for a very long time.

For those with a little political nous, he's known for gun control reform, GST and his consistent refusal at meaningful attempts at reconciliation with Aboriginal people, with Clarke and Dawe famously finding a resolution to that issue in a memorable episode of the games.

Those millenials who are a bit more politically aware would recognise the very dubious motives behind going to war with Iraq, the futility of the war in Afghanistan, the rigged Republic referendum, children overboard and losing his own seat, starting what we're seeing now, with the Libs losing their blue ribbon seats and an unclear path back to government if they can't somehow win them back.

Ultimately we saw his legacy I think a few weeks ago when they tried wheeling him out in electorates where Scott Morrison was considered too toxic: that the majority of people under 40 have negative views towards or are ambivalent towards him.
 

Dixie Flatline

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John Howard Australia’s best politician but worst Prime Minister.

Keating and Hawke government transforming the Australian economy and doing the hard lifting structural changes.

Howard brings in the GST and gun reforms but otherwise increases middle class welfare and brings in franking credits as a rort to stay in power.

Howard with big spending creates a structural deficit of 4%.

The reason we have a Trillion debt is because of Howard’s legacy.

Franking credits on dividends was actually a Keating policy. However, Howard and Costello made a crucial change to the policy in 2001 to provide that if you had more credits than tax owed to the Commonwealth, you'd get a cash refund. That's hamstrung the budget ever since, and Shorten's policy in the 2019 election was to cancel the cash refunds. Albanese didn't take a similar policy to the 2022 election.
 

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