John Winston Howard - what is his legacy?

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Demonic Ascent

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If it makes sense and good business plan behind it, then I'm ok with it.

What I don't like if when a Government sells off an asset that makes money just to fix short term budget issues.
I am fundamentally opposed to essential services and resources being in private control. Private companies only concern is return on investment/profits/dividends, they are not concerned with the provision of service to customers who often have no alternative choice.
 

Maggie5

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I am fundamentally opposed to essential services and resources being in private control. Private companies only concern is return on investment/profits/dividends, they are not concerned with the provision of service to customers who often have no alternative choice.
100% agree, especially with the bold.
 

eastfreo75

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I am fundamentally opposed to essential services and resources being in private control. Private companies only concern is return on investment/profits/dividends, they are not concerned with the provision of service to customers who often have no alternative choice.
I worked for church sporting organization where the Local council gave the land and my employee build the sporting stadium plus recreation rooms.

It started off the church sports organization running the sports and the council running the leisure and recreation courses.

The local council outsourced the Leisure courses to my employer.

We doubled the leisure courses within a year and made a Profit of $200k. Half the profits went to the council.

Just an example where a joint venture can work for all parties including the community.
 

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SBD Gonzalez

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Kidding, right?
All in all I think his legacy is the cultural change from the egalitarian society I remember growing up in the 80s and early 90s to a far more selfish and fragmented society we live in now.

Some of that may have been inevitable or due to outside factors but I feel as if it is at least in some part due to his cynical politicking.
You have summed it up to a “t”.
 

SBD Gonzalez

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Kidding, right?
I am fundamentally opposed to essential services and resources being in private control. Private companies only concern is return on investment/profits/dividends, they are not concerned with the provision of service to customers who often have no alternative choice.
I am not fundamentally opposed; I think there are instances where the private sector is demonstrably better at delivering satisfactory outcomes.

But the deceitful way that privatisation has been used since the 80s as a cover for simultaneously an ideological gutting of what government can even offer, alongside wholesale plunder of our common wealth by the private sector, is just disgusting.
 

sherb

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Far be it for me to defend Howard on anything except the gun buyback, but in his defence he did then take the GST to an election.

But he's still a shocker who set in train so much of the damage we're lumped with today.

Funny how the biggest vandals are always the ones big-noting their patriotism the most.
But that's what he promised not to do, unless he managed to take the GST to an election without it being part of his party's policy.

So by taking it to an election, he broke his promise, which means I for one have never seen it as any sort of defence.

John Howard: “No, there's no way that a GST will ever be part of our policy.” Journalist: “Never ever?” John Howard: “Never ever. It's dead. It was killed by the voters in the last election”.
 
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SBD Gonzalez

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Kidding, right?
But that's what he promised not to do, unless you he managed to take the GST to an election without it being part of his party's policy.

So by taking it to an election, he broke his promise, which means I for one have never seen it as any sort of defence.

John Howard: “No, there's no way that a GST will ever be part of our policy.” Journalist: “Never ever?” John Howard: “Never ever. It's dead. It was killed by the voters in the last election”.
OK, I didn't realise that.
 

BlueBayou

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No. Pissing a once in a century mining boom up the wall buying votes got him those extra terms.
Correct. Howard and Costello cruelled any chance we had of a true Soverign Wealth fund, of being in a position to do things like, oh, I dunno... buy submarines? Because of their short term opportunist plans and a flat screen TV for every brain dead moron who thought that getting a few quid for having a baby was a good idea...
 
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HPKS

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Correct. Howard and Costello cruelled any chance we had of a true Soverign Wealth fund, of being in a position to do things like, oh, I dunno... buy submarines? Becasue of their short term opportunist plans and a flat screen TV for every brain dead moron who thought that getting a few quid for having a baby was a good idea...
I actually had a conversation about Howard the other day. Her words were “he was great he gave me a tax cut” after I went through how long term she’s paying for it now ten times over you could see the anger rising as she just realised a few decades later she’d been played for a fool by honest John. The look on her face said enough.
 

BlueBayou

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I actually had a conversation about Howard the other day. Her words were “he was great he gave me a tax cut” after I went through how long term she’s paying for it now ten times over you could see the anger rising as she just realised a few decades later she’d been played for a fool by honest John. The look on her face said enough.
Thats a bit like saying Abbot was great, he made Phil the Greek a Lord...or Scummo was great he was never ever responsible for any of the rorts or corruption or incompetence of his Government, I know cause he said so...
 

HPKS

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Thats a bit like saying Abbot was great, he made Phil the Greek a Lord...or Scummo was great he was never ever responsible for any of the rorts or corruption or incompetence of his Government, I know cause he said so...
Yep people out there think money they get for free is actually free. Lotto yeh. Politics nah. You pay it back ten times over. Like I said the look on her face was priceless.
 

The Cryptkeeper

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I actually had a conversation about Howard the other day. Her words were “he was great he gave me a tax cut” after I went through how long term she’s paying for it now ten times over you could see the anger rising as she just realised a few decades later she’d been played for a fool by honest John. The look on her face said enough.

You've done well to convert a rusted on Howard supporter mate.
 

Nickoo

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Not sure that’s the relevant comparison. Maybe try Julia Gillard, who passed a record amount of legislation despite leading a minority government, was hounded from office by a viciously misogynistic hate campaign, and almost to a fault has maintained a dignified silence since, while she knuckles down to her work as chair of several charitable trusts.

Julia was hounded from office by Kevin Rudd. No one else. Nasty campaigns are run on both sides of politics.


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The Cryptkeeper

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Julia was hounded from office by Kevin Rudd. No one else. Nasty campaigns are run on both sides of politics.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

History will judge Gillard better than the present.

She would have been a very good PM if given an extended run at it. I would have loved to have seen her lead a majority government.
 

eastfreo75

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History will judge Gillard better than the present.

She would have been a very good PM if given an extended run at it. I would have loved to have seen her lead a majority government.
She and Labor replaced a first term prime minister.

Australia public didn't like that and Labor paid for it and cost majority in the next election.

Gilliard had a real PR issue as the public saw her a woody with bloody hands.

Rudd came back late to save the furniture because he was more popular than Gilliard.

The reality was that Gilliard was easier to deal with than the micro manager Rudd. Perception is reality and Gilliard was a better leader than Rudd but the public didn't see that.
 

western royboy

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She and Labor replaced a first term prime minister.

Australia public didn't like that and Labor paid for it and cost majority in the next election.

Gilliard had a real PR issue as the public saw her a woody with bloody hands.

Rudd came back late to save the furniture because he was more popular than Gilliard.

The reality was that Gilliard was easier to deal with than the micro manager Rudd. Perception is reality and Gilliard was a better leader than Rudd but the public didn't see that.
Hard enough to lead a minority government without your own side helping out - Gillard was a wasted opportunity.
 

eastfreo75

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Hard enough to lead a minority government without your own side helping out - Gillard was a wasted opportunity.
Every political parties has enemies within.

Rudd only became an enemy when Gilliard got rid of him.

The truth is that Rudd was not part of any factor like Gillard and didn’t have much support in the party.

Gillard was unpopular because she got rid of a popular PM in his first term.

Labor took the risk of getting rid of Rudd and paid for it.
 

western royboy

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Every political parties has enemies within.

Rudd only became an enemy when Gilliard got rid of him.

The truth is that Rudd was not part of any factor like Gillard and didn’t have much support in the party.

Gillard was unpopular because she got rid of a popular PM in his first term.

Labor took the risk of getting rid of Rudd and paid for it.
Agree entirely. Never seen one person govern the country by themselves, Rudd had to go, he was a disaster waiting to happen, his ego was/is/remains his major downfall. Gillard got shot from all sides.
 

Kwality

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Albo would be wise to remember Howard:

'New governments get a small window to embark on serious reforms: the first budget, the first term, perhaps the first half of a second term if they take reforms to their first bid for re-election, as John Howard did when arguing for the introduction of the GST at the 1998 election. After that, survival becomes the benchmark for most administrations as they seek to elongate time in power.

Politically speaking, reforms in the second half of a government’s lifespan are especially difficult, which is why they are so rare. Albanese’s government may face more obstruction in the Senate than it otherwise would have courtesy of his decision to decrease crossbench staffing allocations. Lower house teals are complaining loudly, but they have little power. Senate crossbenchers do. If Labor develops an agenda the crossbench might stifle it out of spite.'

 

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