John Winston Howard - what is his legacy?

[Rotayjay]

This is what I don't understand about neo-liberal economics.
If you privatise everything, freeze wages, take away workers power and entitlements, gut social safety nets and hand all the money saved to the already wealthy you end up with what we have now. A large and growing larger underclass. Homelessness is becoming a real problem, people can't afford housing, let alone all the other basics.
As a result crime, drug use, violence, health outcomes, all the bad stuff is on the rise and the problems cost way more to fix than if you'd not engineered the problems in the first place.
And yet we still have idiots in the current government wanting more of it.

The reason they still want it, I suspect, is a combination of being in denial about neoliberalism making things worse, and simply not caring as long as them and their friends stand to financially benefit.

 

[Kwality]

Howard started Australia on the path towards a country where the few, and not the many, can live the 'comfortable and relaxed' life he spoke about in 1996.

When good, secure jobs are only available to a minority of workers, and a roof over your head is not afordable, life is decidedly less relaxed.

I agree about secure jobs but again, point out governments of both persuasions could change it, they havent.
Blaming Howard for housing prices is equally disingenuous.

Man up jay, he's not from your mob & that means you wont select 'think'.

 

[Kwality]

The reason they still want it, I suspect, is a combination of being in denial about neoliberalism making things worse, and simply not caring as long as them and their friends stand to financially benefit.

Why is it these neo types arent the only mob that privatise things ?
Look at the bloody mess that is the east coast power grid, State Governments privatising bits of it are but one factor.

How long since Dan privatised things, only weeks*? He's a neolib on your muddled thinking OR are you simply repeating what someone told you.
VicRoads takes privatisation route with new joint venture (theage.com.au)

Please dont assume I'm a fan of privatisation per se.

 

[GreyWind]

With the announcement today that Australian forces are finally withdrawing from Afghanistan some 20 years after first invading what has been gained?

* all.
We've ****ed Afghanistan.
The Taliban is still around.
41 Australian's have lost their lives.
Many more have had their lives destroyed from injuries, mental and physical.
Many more took their own lives upon returning home.
Families have been torn apart.
We're investigating our own servicemen for war crimes.

Howard should be front and centre apologising for the disgraceful act of going to war with Afghanistan. But he won't the little ******* weasel campaigner will hide and nothing will be said about him and the disastrous actions that him and his government took.

 

[Kwality]

With the announcement today that Australian forces are finally withdrawing from Afghanistan some 20 years after first invading what has been gained?

fu** all.
We've f’ed Afghanistan.
The Taliban is still around.
41 Australian's have lost their lives.
Many more have had their lives destroyed from injuries, mental and physical.
Many more took their own lives upon returning home.
Families have been torn apart.
We're investigating our own servicemen for war crimes.

Howard should be front and centre apologising for the disgraceful act of going to war with Afghanistan. But he won't the little ******* weasel campaigner will hide and nothing will be said about him and the disastrous actions that him and his government took.

Looking back without the shadow of 9/11, its a cheap slag with an obvious appreciation of where Bin Laden might have struck next.
Ah, the wisdom of hindsight .....

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

The reason they still want it, I suspect, is a combination of being in denial about neoliberalism making things worse, and simply not caring as long as them and their friends stand to financially benefit.

And because they and the types they rub shoulders with are financially padded enough to have an impenetrable buffer around themselves from any of this unseemly stuff.

When you drive (or are chauffered in) the Beemer with the tinted windows, and you have the big house in an expensive suburb with the high walls and automatic gates and garage doors, and in the skyscraper where you work you have the underground parking space, and your kids go to the posh private school which is basically a gated country club, you quickly lose any sense of how the great bulk of your fellow Australians really live, nor any concern for them.

 

[Kwality]

And because they and the types they rub shoulders with are financially padded enough to have an impenetrable buffer around themselves from any of this unseemly stuff.

When you drive (or are chauffered in) the Beemer with the tinted windows, and you have the big house in an expensive suburb with the high walls and automatic gates and garage doors, and in the skyscraper where you work your have the underground parking space, and your kids go to the posh private school which is basically a gated country club, you quickly lose any sense of how the great bulk of your fellow Australians really live, nor any concern for them.

Swinging voters, NO.
Try tradies, aspirational people without a HECs bill, because ? Because they were at work, not having an experience on the taxpayer. These are familys who make & break Governments, not the WALLYs on the wings of the traditional partys ALL.

Stereotypes have the stench of academia, simple concepts so easy to debate, with no common touch required.

 

[Rotayjay]

And because they and the types they rub shoulders with are financially padded enough to have an impenetrable buffer around themselves from any of this unseemly stuff.

When you drive (or are chauffered in) the Beemer with the tinted windows, and you have the big house in an expensive suburb with the high walls and automatic gates and garage doors, and in the skyscraper where you work your have the underground parking space, and your kids go to the posh private school which is basically a gated country club, you quickly lose any sense of how the great bulk of your fellow Australians really live, nor any concern for them.

Precisely. Cutting public services and safety nets doesn't affect you if you earn a high income. To the worst right-wingers, the majority of the population is the 'other' - those scum should be grateful for what they get and they can't expect to take 1 million out of my 4 million to pay for that.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Swinging voters, NO.
Try tradies, aspirational people without a HECs bill, because ? Because they were at work, not having an experience on the taxpayer. These are familys who make & break Governments, not the WALLYs on the wings of the traditional partys ALL.

Stereotypes have the stench of academia, simple concepts so easy to debate, with no common touch required.

Who’s talking stereotypes? I spent over a decade working in events management for a Sydney eastern suburbs company and many of our clients were the richest of the rich. Bankers, investors, diplomats, entrepreneurs, top-level bureaucrats and the like.

Trust me, these people are real people, no stereotypes. The decisions they make affect the lives of you and me.

And they are utterly insulated from the consequences of these decisions.

And these are the kind of people the Coalition rub shoulders with and they would never do anything to upset that applecart.

Labor’s bad enough in their courting of this cohort, but to some extent you can say they have no choice. Look at what happened with the mining tax.

But the Coalition don’t even think twice. Then they sell the aspirational myth to the aspirationals and sit back and laugh.

 

[Gough]

We're going to leave Afghanistan, the Taliban will take over again and it will revert back a to pre 2001 situation. Can someone explain to me what twenty years and forty one Australian deaths have achieved? If Labor had led us into this war we'd have never been allowed to forget it.

 

[kickazz]

Looking back without the shadow of 9/11, its a cheap slag with an obvious appreciation of where Bin Laden might have struck next.
Ah, the wisdom of hindsight .....

Maybe at the time, but right now, Al-Qaeda is stronger than ever and Afghanistan's government is a rabble. The decision in the first place might have been questionable, the execution? A monumental failure that dwarfs the Vietnam disaster.

 

[Kwality]

Who’s talking stereotypes? I spent over a decade working in events management for a Sydney eastern suburbs company and many of our clients were the richest of the rich. Bankers, investors, diplomats, entrepreneurs, top-level bureaucrats and the like.

Trust me, these people are real people, no stereotypes. The decisions they make affect the lives of you and me.

And they are utterly insulated from the consequences of these decisions.

And these are the kind of people the Coalition rub shoulders with and they would never do anything to upset that applecart.

Labor’s bad enough in their courting of this cohort, but to some extent you can say they have no choice. Look at what happened with the mining tax.

But the Coalition don’t even think twice. Then they sell the aspirational myth to the aspirationals and sit back and laugh.

That is as pathetic as people who 'blame the unions'' & those who rush to support that claim.

As for aspirational folk, they think for themselves, arent fooled easily by the political theory. See Howards battlers.

 

[H00t]

That is as pathetic as people who 'blame the unions'' & those who rush to support that claim.

As for aspirational folk, they think for themselves, arent fooled easily by the political theory. See Howards battlers.

Haha I needed a good laugh this morning, thank you

Howard’s battlers fell hook, line and sinker for “political theory”. Especially neoliberal political theory. Give them a small handout and they will let you do absolutely anything you want to them and this country. Because hey at least they got a small amount of money even if it costs them more in the long run.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

That is as pathetic as people who 'blame the unions'' & those who rush to support that claim.

As for aspirational folk, they think for themselves, arent fooled easily by the political theory. See Howards battlers.

"Pathetic"? I've seen them. Up close and personal. They are completely untouched by the everyday concerns of you and me, let alone those less fortunate. You just can't handle reality.

And poke any aspirational hard enough and they're convinced they can be Kerry Stokes.

It's no coincidence Australians are among the biggest gamblers in the world. The Coalition and the already-filthy-rich totally tap into that fatal flaw, and laugh all the way to the bank.

 

[Kwality]

Maybe at the time, but right now, Al-Qaeda is stronger than ever and Afghanistan's government is a rabble. The decision in the first place might have been questionable, the execution? A monumental failure that dwarfs the Vietnam disaster.

No one wanted to go war, there are only losers ..... we all knew the history of conflict in Afghanistan. I well remember my late Dad on the subject & he had spent too long in the UK flying Lancasters over Germany.
The thinking of the Nazi era has not gone away. Hatred is a difficult enemy to wipe out.

Haha I needed a good luck this morning, thank you

Howard’s battlers fell hook, line and sinker for “political theory”. Especially neoliberal political theory. Give them a small handout and they will let you do absolutely anything you want to them and this country. Because hey at least they got a small amount of money even if it costs them more in the long run.

What a feeble dismissal of your fellow voters, elitist to the core. These people change their vote, they are the voters that form Governments & chuck them out.

 

[Kwality]

"Pathetic"? I've seen them. Up close and personal. They are completely untouched by the everyday concerns of you and me, let alone those less fortunate. You just can't handle reality.

And poke any aspirational hard enough and they're convinced they can be Kerry Stokes.

It's no coincidence Australians are among the biggest gamblers in the world. The Coalition and the already-filthy-rich totally tap into that fatal flaw, and laugh all the way to the bank.

My best mans father had a 50+ft ocean racer & drove a Cadillac, is this the sort of bloke you suggest fits YOUR stereotype OR is it my mate who went to school with me.

You only have to look at how few people join political partys to know the relevance of the theory you champion. Thats ALL partys.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

My best mans father had a 50+ft ocean racer & drove a Cadillac, is this the sort of bloke you suggest fits YOUR stereotype OR is it my mate who went to school with me.

You only have to look at how few people join political partys to know the relevance of the theory you champion. Thats ALL partys.

I’m now convinced you don’t grasp how the born to rule set actually rule.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

My best mans father had a 50+ft ocean racer & drove a Cadillac, is this the sort of bloke you suggest fits YOUR stereotype OR is it my mate who went to school with me.

You only have to look at how few people join political partys to know the relevance of the theory you champion. Thats ALL partys.

Owen Jones’s “The Establishment - And how the get away with it” is about the situation in the UK but it might be a good place for you to start.

Also “Winners Take All” by Anand Giridharadas, for the US perspective of how the rich and powerful have taken control of charities, non-profits and activist groups to ensure that any efforts to improve the lot of the underprivileged in no way ever touch their privilege.

 

[Kwality]

I’m now convinced you don’t grasp how the born to rule set actually rule.

Yep brought up in a 2br war service home, went to night school to make my way in life.
You havent lived, I spent a few years doing tax returns for all manner of people & rubbed shoulders with the people you seek to run down.

 

[Contra Mundum]

1. Endless culture war - even though Australians have moved past most of it;
2. Militarised Patriotism - [never thought I would see the day when teenagers cry at Anzac Day]
3. Cruel Neoliberalism
4. s**t international reputation starting from traducing the Refugee Convention
5. Mythos of the glorious fifties where white traditional families lived behind a white picket fence (all bullshit of course)
6. The introduction of Faith Based Politics in Australia (I would previously have not believed it was possible in Australia)

 

[Kwality]

Owen Jones’s “The Establishment - And how the get away with it” is about the situation in the UK but it might be a good place for you to start.

Also “Winners Take All” by Anand Giridharadas, for the US perspective of how the rich and powerful have taken control of charities, non-profits and activist groups to ensure that any efforts to improve the lot of the underprivileged in no way ever touch their privilege.

Thanks all the same, my experience is what guides me, not some book about the other side of the world.
We all know the selfish are not defined by politics.
Those who define everything through politics are every bit as misguided as the religious nutbags. Such is their belief they cant see the wood for the trees.

 

[Kwality]

Cruel Neoliberalism

Its rampant .....

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Thanks all the same, my experience is what guides me, not some book about the other side of the world.
We all know the selfish are not defined by politics.
Those who define everything through politics are every bit as misguided as the religious nutbags. Such is their belief they cant see the wood for the trees.

Yep, Charles Dickens wrote about poverty in 19th century London. Why would I read about that?

Shakespeare wrote about kings that already lived and died before his time. What would he know about the modern human condition?

Enjoy your wilful ignorance.

And you're right, the selfish are not defined by politics. They own politics.

 

[Contra Mundum]

Thanks all the same, my experience is what guides me, not some book about the other side of the world.
We all know the selfish are not defined by politics.
Those who define everything through politics are every bit as misguided as the religious nutbags. Such is their belief they cant see the wood for the trees.

 

[Kwality]

Yep, Charles Dickens wrote about poverty in 19th century London. Why would I read about that?

Shakespeare wrote about kings that already lived and died before his time. What would he know about the modern human condition?

Enjoy your wilful ignorance.

And you're right, the selfish are not defined by politics. They own politics.

happy you read Dickens, just not required reading to understand poverty in our backyard.

& politics attract the selfish, many of whom want to rule ...