John Worsfold vs Chris Connolly

[Richo83]

I guess spoon is considered 'mid-table' at Richmond when 9th is the epitomy of success.

Try debating the posts, and not the poster. Richmond's performance is irrelevant.

I'm not saying that CC is a better coach. It seems Worsfold unrelenting style of playing man on man football has given his players the steely resolve over the long term to back themselves talent wise.

Shows a good coach that can implement a plan which gives his players confidence to play well.

It also self-teaches coaching moves. Ie I'm a defender. This guy is getting goals on me. If i run his arse all over the field rebounding my team will be the beneficiary. I'm a forward. My defender is rebounding endlessly, i better get my arse in gear and tackle that fool. I'm a midfielder, if i get back and help my defence, run hard and get forward to score goals, my team will be the beneficary. In other words the eagles are almost self coached on the field. Woosha doesn't need much know how in the box because the players can adapt to different scenarios. BUT he needed to be less strict in this ethos to win a GF. He needed to evolve. Should he have evolved quicker, he may just have had two flags.

One could argue that Worsfold taught them that self awareness and accountability of their position. For example other clubs don't do that, are their players stupid, or badly coached?

CC has always been tactically wise on game day. Very good at reading the play, when we need a spare man in defence, when we need to get forward and kick goals. Who's winnning one on ones ,and who's dissapointing. He's almost been too smart, not letting the players go through the hard times and often over coached the team to wins they didn't deserve. Ie 2003. How the hell did we make the finals that year? very premature in our development.

Eh. Connolly's side has failed consistently in Melbourne over the years. If he was so tactically aware, he would have been able to win those matches. Many times Fremantle have struggled because their key forward, Pavlich has been double and triple teamed, and nothing has been done. Connolly persisted with a Medhurst, Farmer forwardline only to realize after 4 years that it didn't work.

So i think overall Woosha takes the cake, he's been a better development coach. Up and until GF day (and there were signs in the Adelaide prelim) i thought CC was a better game day coach. Woosh has evolved and is now tactically smart on gameday. To state its always been this way isn't true.

You're basing that on the premise that Connolly was a good game-day coach in the first place, which he wasn't. Worsfold has always been the superior coach, took West Coast from 14th to finals in his first year. Connolly took a wooden spoon side to the bottom four in his first year. A bit of a difference.

 

[Total_Juddshanks]

Thanks, Those threads add even more weight to what I said.

Game, Set, Match.

Okay, I get (hope?) that you are being intentionally stupid in an attempt to get a reaction, but sheesh man, grow up.

This isn't really an arguable point, this is historical fact. Ready?

Prior to the beginning of 2002, West Coast were widely acknowledged to have the worst list in the competition. If you had actually looked at the responses of the neutrals on the thread I posted from Nov 2001, you would have noticed that.

They were the shortest priced favourite for the spoon, and as far as neutrals were concerned, they were widely acknowledged as being up ******** creek for several years to come. You can argue that point as much as you like, but that's the way it was, and anyone who is reading this and wants to play with the search function can confirm it. Posting things which indicate that, shock horror, supporters continued to support their team during this time doesn't anything.

The fact that by mid 2002, West Coast were tracking well simply illustrates how excellent a coach John Worsfold is. He got instant results.

If you feel some pathological need to post and get in the last word, go for it, but there isn't really anything more to say. Anyone with half a brain reading this thread is aware how much you are embarassing yourself, if you want to keep on doing that, it's your choice.

 

[Ripper]

Okay, I get (hope?) that you are being intentionally stupid in an attempt to get a reaction, but sheesh man, grow up.

Merely playing devil's advocate and highlighting the different scenarios .

If you check I have not voted nor have I said Whoosh can't coach.

This isn't really an arguable point, this is historical fact. Ready?

Prior to the beginning of 2002, West Coast were widely acknowledged to have the worst list in the competition. If you had actually looked at the responses of the neutrals on the thread I posted from Nov 2001, you would have noticed that.

Acknowedged by who? The same people who predicted a spoon for Adelaide at the end of 2004?

In both cases hindsight has proven them clearly wrong.

I did look at your thread and you obviously need to look a bit closer at the poll results on there which plainly contradict your assertion. Not that that means anything now.

They were the shortest priced favourite for the spoon, and as far as neutrals were concerned, they were widely acknowledged as being up ******** creek for several years to come. You can argue that point as much as you like, but that's the way it was, and anyone who is reading this and wants to play with the search function can confirm it. Posting things which indicate that, shock horror, supporters continued to support their team during this time doesn't anything.

This seems to be the only "proof" that WC fans have.I have heard it a lot but that doesn't mean it is true.

Probaly the bookies trying to extact easy money for silly bets.

The facts:
Just 18 morths earlier the WC squad had enough talent without Woosh to be 3rd on the ladder in Round 11 2000 before they were decimated by injury.

18 months later the WC Squad had enough talent to be 2nd on the ladder after round 15 2003.

11 players were in the Premiership team that were there in 2001compared to 7 in Freo's PF team against Sydney.
All but Kerr played in 2000 when there was enough talent To be 3rd in in round 11.

Banfield
Braun
Cousins
Cox
Embley
Fletcher
Glass
Hunter
Rowan Jones
Kerr
Wirrapanda

15 players in the Premiership team have been there as long as Woosha (compared to 10).

As above plus
Judd
Hansen
Lynch
Seaby

The fact that by mid 2002, West Coast were tracking well simply illustrates how excellent a coach John Worsfold is. He got instant results.

True, but things were not as dire as WC fans make out as I have already demonstrated.

He started with an extremly talented Rucks and midfield and used them well.

If you feel some pathological need to post and get in the last word, go for it, but there isn't really anything more to say. Anyone with half a brain reading this thread is aware how much you are embarassing yourself, if you want to keep on doing that, it's your choice.

That is uncalled for and unneccessary.

 

[gangsta deluxe]

John Worsfold has coached a team to two grand finals and one premiership. Connolly has coached Fremantle to 3 finals appearances.

Worsfold wins. Its just that simple

 

[jom09]

Ripper, if you are debating so heavily that chris connoly is the better coach, then why havent you voted for him?

 

[Bestbird]

Merely playing devil's advocate and highlighting the different scenarios .

If you check I have not voted nor have I said Whoosh can't coach.


Acknowedged by who? The same people who predicted a spoon for Adelaide at the end of 2004?

In both cases hindsight has proven them clearly wrong.

I did look at your thread and you obviously need to look a bit closer at the poll results on there which plainly contradict your assertion. Not that that means anything now.




This seems to be the only "proof" that WC fans have.I have heard it a lot but that doesn't mean it is true.

Probaly the bookies trying to extact easy money for silly bets.

The facts:
Just 18 morths earlier the WC squad had enough talent without Woosh to be 3rd on the ladder in Round 11 2000 before they were decimated by injury.

18 months later the WC Squad had enough talent to be 2nd on the ladder after round 15 2003.

11 players were in the Premiership team that were there in 2001compared to 7 in Freo's PF team against Sydney.
All but Kerr played in 2000 when there was enough talent To be 3rd in in round 11.

Banfield
Braun
Cousins
Cox
Embley
Fletcher
Glass
Hunter
Rowan Jones
Kerr
Wirrapanda

15 players in the Premiership team have been there as long as Woosha (compared to 10).

As above plus
Judd
Hansen
Lynch
Seaby




True, but things were not as dire as WC fans make out as I have already demonstrated.

He started with an extremly talented Rucks and midfield and used them well.





That is uncalled for and unneccessary.

Hardly suprising

WCE in the main prefer to develop there own players so you would expect half to have already been at the club. More so considering that players drafted 2004 onwards were only 20 or so last year.

Note that Freo have 9 players that have played for another club on there main list

Bell
Black
Carr
Cook
Farmer
Hedland
McPharlin
Tarrant
Soliman

Compared to West Coast who have 3

Chick
Stenglien
Armstrong


Which suggest that the Dockers trade heavily to bolster there list instead of developing there own

Woosha the Developer >>>>> than Cuddles the Quick fix

 

[Bestbird]

Double Post

 

[Ripper]

Ripper, if you are debating so heavily that chris connoly is the better coach, then why havent you voted for him?

I have been debating who had the best scenario to start with, (I don't personally reckon that there is that much between them now).

This was in response to yet another unlosable poll started by a WC supporter rateher than debate the issue in the thread it started in.

I thought I would highlight the difference's before the thread degenerated into a CC bash fest.

Show me another coach that has taken over such a spoon side rabble that had never made the top eight, and after the first year has never had a less than 50% win rate.

Has anyone done what he has done with a genuine spoon side?

 

[Ripper]

Hardly suprising

WCE in the main prefer to develop there own players so you would expect half to have already been at the club. More so considering that players drafted 2004 onwards were only 20 or so last year.

Note that Freo have 9 players that have played for another club on there main list

Bell
Black
Carr
Cook
Farmer
Hedland
McPharlin
Tarrant
Soliman

Compared to West Coast who have 3

Chick
Stenglien
Armstrong


Which suggest that the Dockers trade heavily to bolster there list instead of developing there own

Woosha the Developer >>>>> than Cuddles the Quick fix

Nice misrepresentation of facts BB.

You forget what an exodus of players we had at the end of 2001 with Bandy & Black both wanting out of the rabble.
The bolded ones were there long befor CC turned up.

 

[Bestbird]

Nice misrepresentation of facts BB.

You forget what an exodus of players we had at the end of 2001 with Bandy & Black both wanting out of the rabble.
The bolded ones were there long befor CC turned up.

Pot Kettle ect

Freo players at the club before Connolly started

Bell
Cook
Carr
Grover
Haddrill
Halesby
Longmuir
McManus
Parker
Pavlich
Thornton
Walker

Thats 13 players

Plus players traded that are now regulars at different clubs in
McPhee, Brown and Simmonds



Which is of course why you only used the last Freo game as an example


As for the Exodus

Helped by the heavy trading to aquire Bell (picks 6,8,37 and Sinclair)
which also included the off loading Clement and Holland


Note that Freo under Cuddles reign have traded their 1st round draft pick in 4 of his 6 years at the club

01 Croad, McPharlin

02 Hedland

04 Carr

06 Tarrant



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fremantle_Football_Club_drafting_and_trading_history

 

[Ripper]

Pot Kettle ect

Freo players at the club before Connolly started

Bell
Cook
Carr
Grover
Haddrill
Halesby
Longmuir
McManus
Parker
Pavlich
Thornton
Walker

Thats 13 players

Plus players traded that are now regulars at different clubs in
McPhee, Brown and Simmonds



Which is of course why you only used the last Freo game as an example


As for the Exodus

Helped by the heavy trading to aquire Bell (picks 6,8,37 and Sinclair)
which also included the off loading Clement and Holland


Note that Freo under Cuddles reign have traded their 1st round draft pick in 4 of his 6 years at the club

01 Croad, McPharlin

02 Hedland

04 Carr

06 Tarrant



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fremantle_Football_Club_drafting_and_trading_history

There you go again. WTF jas the Bell trade got to do with CC?

The bolded ones are worth every pick to a club that had no nucleus of experienced players.

13 eh?

Bell - gun
Cook - G.O.P. Big heart & tough - How many games would Cookie have got at your mob 2001-2006?
Carr - Good player
Grover - Promoted rookie - 17 games - really stepped up in 2005
Haddrill - Promoted rookie - 8 Games - missed all of 2002 & played 8 QTRS 2005-2006
Halesby - Gun
Longmuir - Good player - would he have got a game in front of gardiner and Cox at WC in 2002?
McManus - See Cookie
Parker - Gun
Pavlich - gun
Thornton - Zero game player (pick 66).
Walker - GOP - How many games would he have got at Your mob?

McPhee, Brown and Simmonds? Good players but not top shelf. CC Has moved them on to build quality into the side.

Again How many games would they have gotten at WC?

You bloke amuse me, For years you lot have labled most of that list as duds especially Cookie & Macca but now are holding them up as an example of an exciting list.

It is worth noting that the following gun players have been introduced since

Sandilands
Peake
Dodd
Crowley
Mundy
Murphy
Johnson
Drum
Duffield
Hayden
Schammer
Webster

All bar Schammer & Sandi have less than 50 games.
Sort of puts to bed the theory that we have traded in our star players

 

[Bestbird]

There you go again. WTF jas the Bell trade got to do with CC?

Nothing if you re read the post, i was addressing a different point

As for the Exodus
Helped by the heavy trading to aquire Bell (picks 6,8,37 and Sinclair)
which also included the off loading Clement and Holland

Not sure why you highlighted Hedland LOL

Not to mention that you could have drafted one of Hodge, Judd or Ball instead of the Croad/McPharlan deal.

And where did i or for that matter any Eagles fan infer that Cook & McManus were part of an exciting list

 

[Ripper]

Nothing if you re read the post




The bolded part is a hint

We were a rabble in 2001 , no one denies that.

Anyway it all water under the bridge now. Not one person has pulled me up on the Footy Dept budget post.

$3.3M per year (up until 2006) is a huge difference.

I see on Ch 10 tonight that we have the new multimedia technology that that the Crows , Swans , Eagles & Pies have had for a couple of years now.

From what I saw on TV it has the potential to dramatically improve our work at the stoppages.

Seeing how the teams that have it are the best stoppage teams in the league , it should mean that We will be even harder to beat in 2007.

 

[West Coast 06]

I see on Ch 10 tonight that we have the new multimedia technology that that the Crows , Swans , Eagles & Pies have had for a couple of years now.

From what I saw on TV it has the potential to dramatically improve our work at the stoppages.

You would want to hope it has some effect! The example they gave 48% of the Freo players got the answer wrong!

Seeing how the teams that have it are the best stoppage teams in the league , it should mean that We will be even harder to beat in 2007.

Could that be because Crows, Swans and Eagles have the best midfields in the comp? Just a thought.

 

[bushie]

You would want to hope it has some effect! The example they gave 48% of the Freo players got the answer wrong!

Yes!! But you didn't get to see the question!!

It was---" Do you think that West Coast supporters have a brain between them??

The 48% who got it wrong were just being kind!!!

 

[Keys]

Yes!! But you didn't get to see the question!!

It was---" Do you think that West Coast supporters have a brain between them??

The 48% who got it wrong were just being kind!!!

We might only have one between us, but if you ask nicely we'll lend it to you Docker's supporters for a couple of weeks.

It'll still come back unused.

 

[bushie]

We might only have one between us, but if you ask nicely we'll lend it to you Docker's supporters for a couple of weeks.

It'll still come back unused.

Well that is hardly being kind. Is it?

 

[Keys]

Well that is hardly being kind. Is it?

Well you did start it.

BTW, you didn't tell me your son was in the Eagles cheer squad. Saw him in that photo of Micky O in another thread.

For the record, Worsfold has been the better coach. Both coaches had poor lists when they started their respective tenures, but Worsfold's win/loss record has been better over the 5 years.

Connolly did a pretty good job up to the end of 2004 (I thought Freo were closer to a premiership than us at that stage), but for whatever reason lost a lot of ground in 2005 and early 2006.

This year really is a make or break year for Connolly, giving up draft picks for the likes of Tarrant and Soloman indicates he is pretty happy with his list, as anything less than top four should be seen as a failure.

 

[bushie]

Well you did start it.

Very true!! And I humbly apologise.

BTW, you didn't tell me your son was in the Eagles cheer squad. Saw him in that photo of Micky O in another thread.

If I have told you once, I have told you a hundred times, that is not my son!!

It is F-U !! The other nuff nuffs are gunnar and Bigcox!!

For the record, Worsfold has been the better coach. Both coaches had poor lists when they started their respective tenures, but Worsfold's win/loss record has been better over the 5 years.

Connolly did a pretty good job up to the end of 2004 (I thought Freo were closer to a premiership than us at that stage), but for whatever reason lost a lot of ground in 2005 and early 2006.

This year really is a make or break year for Connolly, giving up draft picks for the likes of Tarrant and Soloman indicates he is pretty happy with his list, as anything less than top four should be seen as a failure.

Strongly agree on all points

 

[Keys]

Very true!! And I humbly apologise.

If I have told you once, I have told you a hundred times, that is not my son!!

It is F-U !! The other nuff nuffs are gunnar and Bigcox!!

Strongly agree on all points

Good call

Apology not required but accepted anyway.