Jonathan O'Rourke

[play2win]

it appears many posters are seeing JOR as not performing at the cold face and have made him the escape goat!

 

[wizzard400]

If you compare him to other players from the 2012 draft then sure, a case could be made he should be performing at a lot higher level. But I have faith that he will come good, it's hard to deny that the guy has potential to be elite.

 

[MrFujiMoto]

Regardless of his injury history, he should have shown glimpses of his capabilities by now. What I'm seeing is a bloke that doesn't excell in any area of the game.

Let's have a look at some os the prerequisites for good midfielders and put them up against JOR and what he has produced to date;

Ball winning ability- below average
Reflexes- below average
Pace- not really
Vision- average
Skill execution- average
Marking ability- average
Defensive skills- average
Strength over the ball- below average
Poise/ decision making- Average
Comparisons with Sheils are laughable. Sheils showed plenty more than this bloke from the get go. At this stage he is looking like a bust at pick 18. He would need to show something soon to be kept on the list.

OK... Luckily he seems to be doing what the coaches want from him. Let loose in a poorer system and i am sure most of your prerequisites would be a tick. We would also be losing more games than we are.

 

[Lord_Espos]

Realistically he may not be a superstar. But all we need is an Average to Above Average level from him as part of our list structure.

Teams that win Grand Finals are solid and have depth. If he can provide good depth to our midfield for the next couple of years then I will be happy.

If he evolves further than that, then that is a big win. Draft can be a lotto remember. Above Average player with our pick in the 19s would be a win.

 

[MrFujiMoto]

he doesn't get his chance in the middle.
When he does e.g. richmond he got 8 touches and a goal in a quarter

ssshhhh he should be a ball magnet. Thats the position that gets him a spot on our list.. apparently.
He has not set the world on fire. After 1 full pre-season in 4 years. In a team that values roles over individual stats, to the point that our best midfielder was "injured" for a week earlier in the year to get others to lift their game. Stop the presses! Injuries aside, he will be a very good player for us for the next 5 years at least

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Realistically he may not be a superstar. But all we need is an Average to Above Average level from him as part of our list structure.

Teams that win Grand Finals are solid and have depth. If he can provide good depth to our midfield for the next couple of years then I will be happy.

If he evolves further than that, then that is a big win. Draft can be a lotto remember. Above Average player with our pick in the 19s would be a win.

Patience grasshoppers....

 

[savagebradley]

LOL, you're still hiding, whats is he doing in a game that rivals Rioli's low possession count both defensively and offensively ? he sure as hell didn't get enough of the pill on the weekend....... with very little impact and defensively he had 1 tackle with zero 1%'s ?
Hiding behind Rioli as an excuse for another player is comical, there is nobody like Rioli.

Ron Barrassi once said "Possessions, give me possessions and I'll shut up!".

He's shut up now.

 

[VandoHawk]

Alright I'll cop that. Looks like I've got coal on my face

 

[dipper86]

Probably best to compare JOR to Shiels.

Shiels averaged 12 disposals per game in his first 17 games. and 4 tackles
JOR is averaging 13 disposals per game and 2 tackles.

The trajectory is fine. Glad Clarko stuck with Shiels, and will stick with JOR.

Liam Shiels debut was barely at the age of 18, he was the youngest player ever to debut in the AFL at the time in 2009....by his 3rd year of football he was averaging 22 possies per game.

 

[dipper86]

And you're hiding behind a poor game against Carlton and completely ignoring the good game he had against the Tigers where he had 18 touches, 1 goal, 2 goal assists, 7 score involvements, 5 tackles and 3 clearances and a 1 percenter. Not bad for a hopeless player.

Why are you quoting me with not bad for a hopeless player, I have said nothing of the sort......All I've said is that his output is not good enough atm, he will lose his spot in the side.
Terence trent D'arby could have had a best on field game against the tigers. The white flag is well and truly waving.

 

[dipper86]

What is this "LOL" business?

Why do you send Lots Of Love to posters?

I have a lot of love to give, especially to you......you have a track record of getting all pre menstrual tension at the very first sign of a negative comment to one of our Hawthorn players....just trying to ease you in.

 

[dipper86]

Ron Barrassi once said "Possessions, give me possessions and I'll shut up!".

He's shut up now.

I'm still waiting for his role......quoting Ron Barassi won't save you!

 

[Brishawk]

Why are you quoting me with not bad for a hopeless player, I have said nothing of the sort......All I've said is that his output is not good enough atm, he will lose his spot in the side.
Terence trent D'arby could have had a best on field game against the tigers. The white flag is well and truly waving.

He also had solid preseason and plenty of opportunity in an injury depleted and under performing side. JOR hasn't even played all his games at the one club. Bit of a difference.

 

[tige19]

I have a lot of love to give, especially to you......you have a track record of getting all pre menstrual tension at the very first sign of a negative comment to one of our Hawthorn players....just trying to ease you in.

Lol well played

 

[Davo23]

I have a lot of love to give, especially to you......you have a track record of getting all pre menstrual tension at the very first sign of a negative comment to one of our Hawthorn players....just trying to ease you in.

Ha ha, personal insults.

And sexist ones to boot - I deserved that!

 

[tige19]

Liam Shiels debut was barely at the age of 18, he was the youngest player ever to debut in the AFL at the time in 2009....by his 3rd year of football he was averaging 22 possies per game.

Liam has peaked and has leveled out this year, I think the ceiling has been well and truely reached and what we have is a good footballer. I think JOR will get to that level, I'm not saying he will be a star but I think his ceiling is a 20 touches per game, inside mid who can kick a goal and that's fine, that's what our club builds flags on.

I ask you to reserve judgment until this time next year, if the improvement has halted I'm with you!

If you're feelings towards JOR are what they are, surely you'd be asking where TOB fits on our list? I think he has been a far greater disappointment than JOR. In the space of 3 months Sicily gave him windburn in terms of output and improvement, and Sic is a late pick with less development. The orgasmic screams of joy for TOB each time he jumps at the footy is classical.

 

[Great 2008]

Jack Watts is effectively a Pick 2 - it can be a slow burn. Not willing to throw the baby out with the bath water yet.

Agree after watching Jacks debut season I thought he would be lucky to ever get a kick long term. Going ok now.

 

[MrPremiership]

Liam Shiels debut was barely at the age of 18, he was the youngest player ever to debut in the AFL at the time in 2009....by his 3rd year of football he was averaging 22 possies per game.

In terms of football age, JOR is 18, not 22. He has had so many injuries that you have to effectively review his football as a first/second year player

 

[eldorado]

it appears many posters are seeing JOR as not performing at the cold face and have made him the escape goat!

The Hawks need to give him an old tomato! Lift, or you're out!

 

[Ned Ryerson]

The Hawks need to give him an old tomato! Lift, or you're out!

Definitely sounds like what is happening for all intense and purposes.

 

[Bumps"N"Grins]

Liam has peaked and has leveled out this year, I think the ceiling has been well and truely reached and what we have is a good footballer. I think JOR will get to that level, I'm not saying he will be a star but I think his ceiling is a 20 touches per game, inside mid who can kick a goal and that's fine, that's what our club builds flags on.

I ask you to reserve judgment until this time next year, if the improvement has halted I'm with you!

If you're feelings towards JOR are what they are, surely you'd be asking where TOB fits on our list? I think he has been a far greater disappointment than JOR. In the space of 3 months Sicily gave him windburn in terms of output and improvement, and Sic is a late pick with less development. The orgasmic screams of joy for TOB each time he jumps at the footy is classical.

I was really starting enjoy my Tee oh oh oh oh bugger orgasms.

Come on someone had to do it.

 

[dipper86]

Liam has peaked and has leveled out this year, I think the ceiling has been well and truely reached and what we have is a good footballer. I think JOR will get to that level, I'm not saying he will be a star but I think his ceiling is a 20 touches per game, inside mid who can kick a goal and that's fine, that's what our club builds flags on.

I ask you to reserve judgment until this time next year, if the improvement has halted I'm with you!

If you're feelings towards JOR are what they are, surely you'd be asking where TOB fits on our list? I think he has been a far greater disappointment than JOR. In the space of 3 months Sicily gave him windburn in terms of output and improvement, and Sic is a late pick with less development. The orgasmic screams of joy for TOB each time he jumps at the footy is classical.

My judgment is based on what I have seen so far, which is his output hasn't been satisfactory playing in the best side in the league......he has a lot of work to do. We can hide behind injuries roles etc.....but the fact is he's going to need a lot of improvement, I'm not writing him off yet.
Not sure what to make of TOB, he has some nice qualities .... but....that's for another thread.

 

[Dipper]

Liam has peaked and has leveled out this year, I think the ceiling has been well and truely reached and what we have is a good footballer. I think JOR will get to that level, I'm not saying he will be a star but I think his ceiling is a 20 touches per game, inside mid who can kick a goal and that's fine, that's what our club builds flags on.

I ask you to reserve judgment until this time next year, if the improvement has halted I'm with you!

If you're feelings towards JOR are what they are, surely you'd be asking where TOB fits on our list? I think he has been a far greater disappointment than JOR. In the space of 3 months Sicily gave him windburn in terms of output and improvement, and Sic is a late pick with less development. The orgasmic screams of joy for TOB each time he jumps at the footy is classical.

I endorse this post.

 

[PhatHQ]

17 games in.

17.

If we're going to harp on possessions (which we shouldn't, but its just an easy assessment for the uneducated), then consider:

Pendlebury averaged about 16 per game in his first 17 games.
Fyfe averaged about 16 per game in his first 17 games.
Judd averaged about 15 per game in his first 17 games

JOR is averaging 13. Give it time please.

Nice work Bruce

 

[m0zza]

One pre-season
A bundle of soft tissue injuries
His core strength would be way behind fourth year players, probably even behind first year players
This year is way too soon to be writing him off
To expect him to be performing at the level of even a fifty gamer is just bizarre