Contracted Jonathon Patton [RFA in 2020]

BennyGan

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Ah yes, another GWS contract Hawks fans are certain about.

I tell ya what, Birchall/Puopolo/Roughead/Schoenmakers must be on biiiiig money if you plan on absorbing an $800k contract and making a godfather offer.
i hate hawks as much as anyone but i dont think its that hard for them to fit Patton in, they'll probably get gws to pay for a certain percentage on his contract next year and offer them a pick in the 20s
 

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General Giant

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i hate hawks as much as anyone but i dont think its that hard for them to fit Patton in, they'll probably get gws to pay for a certain percentage on his contract next year and offer them a pick in the 20s
No one is saying they couldn't fit in Pattons contract.

We are more amused at the tinfoil hat conspiracies and supposed down to the dollar knowledge of the Giants cap.
 

Abasi

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Yep. I can see it now.

Gun forward who would be of benefit to the club coming into finals, if he is ready, is left off the list so we don't hurt him for his future at the Hawks.
🤦‍♂️

How many times does it need to be pointed out....if he plays and gets injured the Giants have his contract on their books, and are restricted with what they can offer others.

It makes zero sense for them to play him.
 

General Giant

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How many times does it need to be pointed out....if he plays and gets injured the Giants have his contract on their books, and are restricted with what they can offer others.

It makes zero sense for them to play him.
And if he is available and helps us win the flag we wouldn't give a damn.

It makes plenty of sense.

Oh and you don't think there would of been a clause in the last contract that was signed?(which was after his 2nd knee)
 

General Giant

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It makes zero sense for the Giants salary cap constraints.

800K+ in the cap is a massive millstone when you have to try and find money for J.Cameron and others going forward.


Makes plenty of sense.
I mean Hawks would prefer we didn't and fits their tinfoil hat thing they have going on.
As I said
If we won the flag we wouldn't care less.

Again with the cap restraints. You don't know our cap situation, the reports posted earlier were from last year before we dumped a ton of talent and created space.

Jezza is signed for next year and is already part of the cap so it would make zero difference for players next year.

And once again. You don't know our cap or even Pattons contract details or injury clauses involved
 

Scotland

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Anyone read the thread title recently? Patton is a free agent next year. So whether he's on $100k or $1m in 2020 he's on nothing in 2021 and beyond. So for everyone who is gravely concerned about GWS' salary cap 'going forward' he doesn't need to be a part of it.
 

Abasi

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Makes plenty of sense. I mean Hawks would prefer we didn't and fits their tinfoil hat thing they have going on.

Again with the cap restraints. You don't know our cap situation, the reports posted earlier were from last year before we dumped a ton of talent and created space.

Jezza is signed for next year and is already part of the cap so it would make zero difference for players next year.

And once again. You don't know our cap or even Pattons contract details or injury clauses involved
No mate, it makes zero sense.

When your club shopped him last year, they wanted his salary off the books. This has not changed.

If they were to play him now and risk injury, when they have a suitor who will free them off this burden in their cap, they should shut the doors to the place.

Everyone knows that Cameron has the Cats ready to offer him big $$$$. How many times does this need to be said.

Plenty of people had heard about your cap issues all last year, while you and others continually argued that there was no cap squeeze happening and that it was all made up by the Vic media. Your cap will need more relief this year in order to keep the players you want to keep, and Patton's contract is a big part of that.
 

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General Giant

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the guy i quoted literally was asking how could hawks afford him
Not at all. He was talking (taking the piss) about the godfather offer included that some Hawks are carrying on about.

He wasn't saying they couldn't take on Pattons contract.

Although neither of us can speak for him, it's the way i took it.
 

Tayl0r

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The AFL doesn't care if a club has $15,000,000 of salary cap allocated for a single year as long as that year isn't the current one.
 

Scotland

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Not at all. He was talking (taking the piss) about the godfather offer included that some Hawks are carrying on about.

He wasn't saying they couldn't take on Pattons contract.

Although neither of us can speak for him, it's the way i took it.
Correct weight.

Any club could find a way to take on Patton if they wanted to. How much is Tom Lynch getting? Richmond won the flag then got him a year later.

Certain fans are bleating on about godfather offers and whatnot and in the next breath they want to take on Patton (apparently on $800k) after taking on Scully ($500k) last year. Sounds like a lot of cap space to have available given every club pays 95-100%...

GWS may well give away Patton cheaply in trade week to get his contract off the books. Wouldn't be the worst move given how well Finlayson has done in his first year up forward. But they're not going to do it and then give away Coniglio for a contract they could easily match. That's like saying 'hey you helped me move house that time, here take the title you deserve it'.
 

General Giant

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No mate, it makes zero sense.
As said early if it helps get us a flag then no we would not care.

When your club shopped him last year, they wanted his salary off the books. This has not changed.
We did? Possible we did shop him. Nothing wrong with that.

If they were to play him now and risk injury, when they have a suitor who will free them off this burden in their cap, they should shut the doors to the place.
Lol that's your, ridiculous, opinion.

And if not using him when he is available and it costs us a flag I would be way more angrier.

Everyone knows that Cameron has the Cats ready to offer him big $$$$. How many times does this need to be said.
Yep like most clubs they would be preparing massive offers, as will we.

But he is contracted for next year already, as such Pattons contract, or anyone's finishing up then, has zero to do with it.

Plenty of people had heard about your cap issues all last year, while you and others continually argued that there was no cap squeeze happening and that it was all made up by the Vic media. Your cap will need more relief this year in order to keep the players you want to keep, and Patton's contract is a big part of that.
We did say that. We also said not long before finals that there was moves to clear plenty of cap space so we could make the re-signings we wanted over the next couple of years.
You see as more info became available we weren't to proud to update our opinion.
You on the other hand still had Shiel to Hawthorn an hour before he was traded to Essendon.
 

Abasi

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As said early if it helps get us a flag then no we would not care.
Your club would though.

We did? Possible we did shop him. Nothing wrong with that.
So why did you shop him?



Yep like most clubs they would be preparing massive offers, as will we.

But he is contracted for next year already, as such Pattons contract, or anyone's finishing up then, has zero to do with it.
This is an overly simplistic viewpoint that does not consider the amount of flex clubs want in their cap to be able to make moves and counter offers.


We did say that. We also said not long before finals that there was moves to clear plenty of cap space so we could make the re-signings we wanted over the next couple of years.
You see as more info became available we weren't to proud to update our opinion.
You argued it then, you are arguing it again now.

You on the other hand still had Shiel to Hawthorn an hour before he was traded to Essendon.
Don't fabricate things in desperation.
 

General Giant

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Your club would though.
I'm sure they would be absolutely furious to have an extra fwd that helps win a flag.

So why did you shop him?
Because he or we wanted to.

We have 2 players who are going great up front.

Diesnt mean we are going to keep him in mothbals to protect him for the Hawks

This is an overly simplistic viewpoint that does not consider the amount of flex clubs want in their cap to be able to make moves and counter offers.
Not simplistic at all. It's straightforward.

You argued it then, you are arguing it again now.
Incorrect

Don't fabricate things in desperation.
Lol. No fabrication. All here know it.
 

Abasi

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I'm sure they would be absolutely furious to have an extra fwd that helps win a flag.



Because he or we wanted to.

We have 2 players who are going great up front.

Diesnt mean we are going to keep him in mothbals to protect him for the Hawks



Not simplistic at all. It's straightforward.



Incorrect



Lol. No fabrication. All here know it.
No they don’t, because you just made that up. It literally never happened.

As for Patton you still don’t get it....it’s not about said him for the Hawks, it’s about having his 800k contract on your books for another 12 months when you want it gone.
 

Sixpence

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I'm sure they would be absolutely furious to have an extra fwd that helps win a flag.
You have Cameron, Finlayson and Himmelberg. How many big forwards do you need?! If you play all 4 in one game, teams like Brisbane, Richmond, Geelong will destroy you. Or do you go with 3 and one of Fin or HH misses out? How do you reckon they'd feel being passed over for a guy who hasn't played all year and is on the way out?

Not sure where you see him helping you win a flag? More risk than reward by playing him.
 

General Giant

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You have Cameron, Finlayson and Himmelberg. How many big forwards do you need?! If you play all 4 in one game, teams like Brisbane, Richmond, Geelong will destroy you. Or do you go with 3 and one of Fin or HH misses out? How do you reckon they'd feel being passed over for a guy who hasn't played all year and is on the way out?

Not sure where you see him helping you win a flag? More risk than reward by playing him.
And if any of them go down with injury?

I would prefer we have him ready to go as back up.l than to have n o ne at all.

Especially given our history with injuries over the years.
 

moistie

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The only way you can 'buy' Coniglio as a free agent is with a huge money, short term contract.

If you want to offer $4m over 2 years knock yourselves out
Your contract numbers, not mine. Keep arguing with your strawman.
but any sensible, medium to long term deal can be matched by GWS. If Coniglio chooses Hawthorn, the club could easily fit that contract or more beneath the cap for the 2020 season. That is all that matters if Hawthorn wish to play hardball.
As I explained and you are incapable of comprehending, it only takes a contract offer for the 2020 season. If the value of that contract means GWS total player payments in 2020 are greater than the cap they cannot match and he goes to the club of his choice. It doesn't matter if GWS can fit the total contract value in, if they cannot match the 2020 value it's goodbye Stephen.

All clubs would have a ballpark idea of what level the contract would need to be for GWS to be unable to match. Both the St Kilda and Carlton offers were reported at $1.2 million. This is something Hawthorn could easily match, and likely more on top.

Now, I'll spell out the point I'm making for you:
Hawthorn have completed a deal for Patton.

He was shopped last season and there were no takers. He is a large framed player coming off three knee reconstructions so his health is a large risk. He is taking up significant GWS cap room on anywhere between $600 to $800k for next season. He has been replaced in the lineup (by Finlayson, Himmelberg and Cameron). So, the most logical outcome is the negotiated price is likely to be similar to the Scully deal, GWS dump next seasons salary for a low pick (likely fourth round).

Hawthorn then put a proposition to GWS "If Coniglio decides he wants to come to the HFC as a free agent we have the cap space next season to make it happen and you (GWS) will be unable to match (which is what you think is exactly what should happen)". Bear in mind, the HFC could potentially take up to $2 million off the books for next season with retirements (Rough, Birch, Schoenmakers & Puopolo). There is no way GWS could free up that much salary cap space for 2020.

Hawthorn says, "If he chooses the HFC we have a player payment structure which we plan to adhere to. In light of the Patton deal, how can we alter the Patton deal to make it worthwhile for you (GWS) to not match a reasonable salary offer?"

Hawthorn lays out its conditions (first and second off the table) and listens to GWS' counter offer for players and/or picks. If a deal is reached, the HFC include it in the Patton deal. If a deal cannot be reached, HFC make the large offer and GWS get the sole compensation pick.

Which scenario seems more appealing to GWS? Which provides more goodwill between the two clubs?

As expert as everyone seems to be in their current salary cap position, it would be next level to know what they've got planned for 2024.
Relevance?
 

moistie

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i hate hawks as much as anyone but i dont think its that hard for them to fit Patton in, they'll probably get gws to pay for a certain percentage on his contract next year and offer them a pick in the 20s
If Hawthorn take Patton in a trade his GWS contract is void. The full amount of his contract comes off the GWS books and the HFC can negotiate whatever contract they wish with him. The new contract would likely be for more money than he would earn next season (rumoured to be up to $800k) but with the money stretched over two or three seasons (e.g. $400-$500k per season).
 

stfan

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Which scenario seems more appealing to GWS? Which provides more goodwill between the two clubs?
Well clearly neither, as what you are saying is the Hawks will tell GWS that they are going to ream them and that they can just shut up and take it.


GWS by the way have a number of players that they could choose to trade to various clubs and so I do not see their salary cap as fixed.
 

Vindicater

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If Hawthorn take Patton in a trade his GWS contract is void. The full amount of his contract comes off the GWS books and the HFC can negotiate whatever contract they wish with him. The new contract would likely be for more money than he would earn next season (rumoured to be up to $800k) but with the money stretched over two or three seasons (e.g. $400-$500k per season).
You really think he is giving up 800k next year?

So he can sign for 2 years at 400 per year?

That means he would effectively be playing that second year for free...

If it is true he is on 800 a year he would be mad to give it up.

If he does it implies he knows his knees are cooked and is going for an extra cash grab.
 
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